328 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

Well the demon needs to be in the same world as the mage, be it fade or Thedas in order to fight and overwhelm the mage. If the player can defeat the demon there will be no possession. Yes the smartest mage can become possessed too. There are mages who their risk of getting possessed is lower than getting struck by lighting. And this was my point, at this point possession becomes a minor threat as it as less than 0.000001% chance of happening. The mage Inquisitor is one these mages.

No arguments from me, I assure you.  Thanks for elaborating on your point.  

[Master Warder Z]

Well the demon needs to be in the same world as the mage, be it fade or Thedas in order to fight and overwhelm the mage. If the player can defeat the demon there will be no possession. Yes the smartest mage can become possessed too. There are mages who their risk of getting possessed is lower than getting struck by lighting. And this was my point, at this point possession becomes a minor threat as it as less than 0.000001% chance of happening. The mage Inquisitor is one these mages.

 

You base this reasoning off of special snowflakes though.

 

When in truth we do not know the commonality of possession attempts or their success rates, what is known however  is that Mages face demonic threats on a fairly regular basis. So the argument that possession should be treated as a minor threat to all mages when both the lore and game play provide entirely different stories doesn't hold water.

 

"Oh but the Mage PC resisted demonic temptation and possession!"

 

Them not implementing a game mechanic for it doesn't make possession impossible.

[KainD]

You base this reasoning off of special snowflakes though.

 

We are playing a special snowflake, always. 

[Wolfen09]

i like frosted flakes.... wait a minute....

[KainD]

i like frosted flakes.... wait a minute....

 

I like Khorne flakes. Served with fresh blood. 

 

Spoiler

[Xilizhra]

Except this isn't entirely true nor a comparable situation given a Warrior can retire from the field and avoid combat, A Mage faces the peril of possession every time they sleep. Every time they cast a spell, Every time they step into the Fade consciously, Yes a Warrior is at risk to die from combat, but a Mage is at risk every time they do something as Mundane as sleeping.

As anyone is at risk of getting hit by a car whenever they step into the street.

 

 

A silly strawman.

First, all classes are at risk of getting their guts ripped open. Death in combat CAN happen.

Death from possession cannot happen.

If you want to talk about a double standard, there is one. Mages are immune to their "curse".

 

Also, for a RPG game, it's the characters skills that should matter more than player one, but the reason I said something like QTE (difficulty might depend on various factor) is because it gives the player a chance to avoid it.

Why bother with a QTE for this? Just have a solo fight.

[Master Warder Z_]

As anyone is at risk of getting hit by a car whenever they step into the street.

 

When i start sleep walking into an eight lane it may be comparable, honestly this is a relatively weak strawman xill.

[Xilizhra]

When i start sleep walking into an eight lane it may be comparable, honestly this is a relatively weak strawman xill.

When mages start spontaneously turning into abominations at a comparable rate to that, then your point will somehow make sense. As it is, the total lack of any unwilling abomination appearing when the Veil hasn't already been screwed with leads me to believe that the danger is minor, at least enough that mages aren't terrified of going to sleep (which, you know, you'd think someone would have mentioned by now if it was in any way a notable risk).

[Tevinter Soldier]

You base this reasoning off of special snowflakes though.

 

When in truth we do not know the commonality of possession attempts or their success rates, what is known however  is that Mages face demonic threats on a fairly regular basis. So the argument that possession should be treated as a minor threat to all mages when both the lore and game play provide entirely different stories doesn't hold water.

 

"Oh but the Mage PC resisted demonic temptation and possession!"

 

Them not implementing a game mechanic for it doesn't make possession impossible.

 

but thats's because you can't easily implement a game play mechanic for it.

a circle mage is better trained to resist possession then anyone else.

 

mages are a threat of being taken over for 3 reasons.

1) they ATTRACT DEMONS, their more easily found in the fade then a normal human

2) in the fade their in the demons domain, its here they can be "trapped"

3) Demons can whisper to mages whenever they "tap" into the fade, Especially when using blood magic.

 

the increased risk is not a mage walking down the street and suddenly "OH NO DEMON ATTACK"

its the fact that they can be driven nut's or tempted to accept offers from the actual demonic voices they hear.

 

Thats the whole point of Uldred when you meet him in the harrowing chamber, the demons can't just take over the circle mages, uldred Summoned the pride demon into thedas and not just any pride demon the same all mighty pride demon that had been trapped in a certain section of the fade as a test for the harrowing which then bull rushed him, as it could literally anyone even a templar. 

 

the rest Uldred was torturing until they gave in and allowed the demon to take hold, the demon itself could not take over unless the mage gave up, which the demons couldn't do it was Uldred.

 

the only other possessed mages we come across are dead arcane horrors or dumb arse's who accepted deals from desire demons.

 

It would be lore breaking if a demon tried to just physically take over a mage walking around thedas and stupid if it was a quick time event. but If they were able to somehow add the whispering influence of demons into the gameplay, even if it were just for blood mages THAT WOULD BE COOL.

 

Imagine a fade spirit weighing in on your choices, urging you to take a certain route, or telling you not to trust your party members, even possibly giving you advice that saves you in an attempt to earn your trust.

 

thats how mages turn through their connection with the fade, physical take over is no different to anyone else. So a silly quick time event makes no sense. possession makes more sense of being a risk overtime, hallucinating etc. being DRIVEN TO BREAKING POINT rather then just BLAM YOUR AN ABOMINATION!

[KainD]

I agree, except:

 

2) Demons can whisper to mages when ever they "tap" into the fade, Especially when using blood magic.

 

Fixed. 

[wcholcombe]

I agree, except:

 

 

Fixed. 

Well that isn't entirely wrong. Use of blood magic does weaken the veil, but then again so does using massive amounts of magic in an area.

[KainD]

Well that isn't entirely wrong. Use of blood magic does weaken the veil, but then again so does using massive amounts of magic in an area.

 

No, that's entirely wrong. Use of any magic weakens the veil, and blood magic is no different. 

[Master Warder Z_]

When mages start spontaneously turning into abominations at a comparable rate to that, then your point will somehow make sense. As it is, the total lack of any unwilling abomination appearing when the Veil hasn't already been screwed with leads me to believe that the danger is minor, at least enough that mages aren't terrified of going to sleep (which, you know, you'd think someone would have mentioned by now if it was in any way a notable risk).

 

There isn't a notion of how rare the actual occurrence is, its not like DA gives figures or numbers, you arguing for that basis no stronger then my own position. You think them being consciously aware, the very thing that draws Demons to them, doesn't present risk in  that scenario? That conjecture rings false to me. And There has been at least one notable mage who suffered from this very occurrence Faeynerial, who feared going to sleep. Wynne also sleeps of encountering demons in her dreams as child and being terrified of them.

 

Point being the basis is there, you're denial of it doesn't change what has been put into place.

[Tevinter Soldier]

I agree, except:

 

 

Fixed. 

 

I'm sure the codex say's something about blood magic attracting demons more then normal magic.

[Xilizhra]

There isn't a notion of how rare the actual occurrence is, its not like DA gives figures or numbers, you arguing for that basis no stronger then my own position. You think them being consciously aware, the very thing that draws Demons to them, doesn't present risk in  that scenario? That conjecture rings false to me. And There has been at least one notable mage who suffered from this very occurrence Faeynerial, who feared going to sleep. Wynne also sleeps of encountering demons in her dreams as child and being terrified of them.

 

Point being the basis is there, you're denial of it doesn't change what has been put into place.

Yes, and Feynriel was a somniarus (not to mention that he lived in Kirkwall where the Veil is screwed up, as I mentioned before) while Wynne was always particularly sensitive to spirits and inclined to become a spirit healer. In any case, the demons frightened her; she never mentioned any battles or serious attempts on her mind, to my knowledge. And I didn't say it didn't present risk; I said it didn't present significant risk because we have no evidence at all of it being so in the vast majority of cases. You have to be the one to prove that any given mage in any given scenario might suddenly explode into an abomination when they fall asleep.

[KainD]

I'm sure the codex say's something about blood magic attracting demons more then normal magic.

 

No it doesn't. We've been there thoroughly. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes, and Feynriel was a somniarus (not to mention that he lived in Kirkwall where the Veil is screwed up,

And Normal Mages experience this, even outside of places were the Veil isn't weakened utterly via Imperium idiocy.  So i don't really see why this would be a detraction.

 

 And I didn't say it didn't present risk; I said it didn't present significant risk because we have no evidence at all of it being so in the vast majority of cases.

 

So you're perspective is you're perspective is your own as is mine, Great we established that.

 

You have to be the one to prove that any given mage in any given scenario might suddenly explode into an abomination when they fall asleep.

 

I never said as such, i just pointed out they encounter that risk when they close their eyes, You're hyperbole becomes tiresome.

[wcholcombe]

No, that's entirely wrong. Use of any magic weakens the veil, and blood magic is no different. 

Ok, put it another way, Blood magic allows you to open the veil--The use of blood magic itself is treacherous; as it allows the Veil to be opened completely so that demons may physically pass through it into the physical world.^[7]

 

 

Opening the veil to summon demons, by definition weakens the veil.

[wcholcombe]

Yes, and Feynriel was a somniarus (not to mention that he lived in Kirkwall where the Veil is screwed up, as I mentioned before) while Wynne was always particularly sensitive to spirits and inclined to become a spirit healer. In any case, the demons frightened her; she never mentioned any battles or serious attempts on her mind, to my knowledge. And I didn't say it didn't present risk; I said it didn't present significant risk because we have no evidence at all of it being so in the vast majority of cases. You have to be the one to prove that any given mage in any given scenario might suddenly explode into an abomination when they fall asleep.

The DAO comic clearly shows that the mage who grew up outside the circle was in danger of possession when she entered the fade in her dreams.

[Xilizhra]

And Normal Mages experience this, even outside of places were the Veil isn't weakened utterly via Imperium idiocy.  So i don't really see why this would be a detraction.

Really? Show me where a normal mage is experiencing debilitating nightmares that are apparently making it harder for them to awaken by the day, which eventually pull them into a complete coma.

 

I never said as such, i just pointed out they encounter that risk when they close their eyes, You're hyperbole becomes tiresome.

And I didn't disagree with you on that. You were the one arguing that it was statistically significant, thus my statement is not hyperbole.

[Master Warder Z_]

Really? Show me where a normal mage is experiencing debilitating nightmares that are apparently making it harder for them to awaken by the day, which eventually pull them into a complete coma.

 

 

 

And I didn't disagree with you on that. You were the one arguing that it was statistically significant, thus my statement is not hyperbole.

 

Orana was brought to the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall at the age of five. Her mentors had high hopes for the child, seeing her talent for magic. Unfortunately, the poor child was plagued by nightmares that only worsened after her move to the Gallows.

 

Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer.

Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied.

 

http://dragonage.wik...uility_(amulet)

 

._. Normal Mage child, plagued with nightmares before even coming to Kirkwall.

 

Satisfied?

 

And given we have notable cases indicating as such, Yes i would argue it significant.

[KainD]

Ok, put it another way, Blood magic allows you to open the veil--The use of blood magic itself is treacherous; as it allows the Veil to be opened completely so that demons may physically pass through it into the physical world.^[7]

 

 

Opening the veil to summon demons, by definition weakens the veil.

 

First, I think that regular magic is also capable of tearing the veil, although a lot harder feat to achieve than with blood magic.

Second, just because blood magic can be used for such feats, doesn't make it inherently more demon attracting. 

The fact that a knife can be used for killing doesn't mean that people who own a knife are more prone to becoming murderers. 

[Lulupab]

Are we debating the risk of possession for all mages or the snowflakes such as Inquisitor, Hawke and Warden? If its the latter then my point still stands and possession is a minor threat.

 

The risk of possession is there but the more smart and powerful the mage the lesser the risk to the point that it becomes insignificant. 

[Master Warder Z_]

The risk of possession is there but the more smart and powerful the mage the lesser the risk to the point that it becomes insignificant. 

 

Again i point out that failure to implement a game mechanic doesn't indicate intrinsic skill in resisting possession given that we have only had one PC who resisted a joke of a possession attempt during their harrowing.

[Xilizhra]

Satisfied?

No, because they worsened upon moving to Kirkwall. Wynne had similar issues but got better.