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Alistair - To harden or not?.

Débuté par Akrabra , avril 03 2014 01:14

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#26
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 01:20

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Even if hardened he still give the line: "I didn't wanted to be king, and I still don't" So Alistair will likely never trully embrace the idea. I think it's more on the lines of:

 

Unhardened Alistair: begrudgingly accepts his fate as king

 

Hardened Alistair: Accepts his fate as king

 

I didn't get that. He was 100% approval. He told my character to stick by him. My male Cousland did. If you let him fight he takes the throne himself. If hardened he does an excellent job. A male warden get a -2 for putting him on the throne. Not a major issue. The player should just pick the person they want for the best possible ending they want.


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#27
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 01:39

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Some data:

 

Condition 3: Warden agreed to support Anora. Alistair is hardened, in romance or not.
Alistair: She wants to be queen. I get it. I don't trust her any more than her father, but I get it.
 
1. I've decided to support her in the Landsmeet. Disapproves (-10) (to B)
 
He believes that Loghain and Anora tend to step over people. This is a quality he hates.
 
The key is to talk to him before the landsmeet. I only get the -2 with all the games when I make him King. The -2 after the landsmeet is because he is unsure of himself. The option I picked for the landsmeet was thought you would be speechless. He states he wants the warden at his side.  The warden replied if you want me there, I'll be there. You become Chancellor if you say I wish to serve the throne. 

#28
Jaison1986
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:07

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I didn't get that. He was 100% approval. He told my character to stick by him. My male Cousland did. If you let him fight he takes the throne himself. If hardened he does an excellent job. A male warden get a -2 for putting him on the throne. Not a major issue. The player should just pick the person they want for the best possible ending they want.

 

You get that line if you agree with Riordan about recruiting Loghain. But for that to happen you can't let Alistair duel Loghain personally. 

 

Here is an video showing it: 

 


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#29
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:40

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I harden him if I'm playing a noble to be queen. As a mage I keep him in the grey wardens. I think if you have a romance with him and he is in love, either way makes him happy because the one thing that mattered to him most of all was family and being with people he cared about who cared about him in return. So if you romance him he's pretty content though best hardened as King and not as Grey warden.

 

Oh I just found great dialogue if you call him whiny about the king thing - later if you haven't hardened him and I think he is in love with you he makes some good comments around the landsmeet. He whines a bit sarcastically then says he has to stop being so whiny. Might be one of my new favorite conversations.

 

I did the noble one for about three games but I've decided that my favorite is Mage where we are Grey wardens together. I think it's happier than all that royal stuff that he kind of has to force himself to like.


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#30
Corker
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:44

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Some data:

 

Condition 3: Warden agreed to support Anora. Alistair is hardened, in romance or not.
Alistair: She wants to be queen. I get it. I don't trust her any more than her father, but I get it.
 
1. I've decided to support her in the Landsmeet. Disapproves (-10) (to B)

 

 

My read on this is still that he doesn't want Anora to be queen, and disapproves of your choice, rather than that he wants it, personally. 

 

IDK.  I ran through the Landsmeet like four times with my Brosca, to try and figure out what hardened!Alistair really wanted.  It's certainly not (I think) easy call, and there's definitely room for interpretation.  I  just feel like being king was the least objectionable of the alternatives he had to pick from, rather than "Ooo, me! Pick me!"


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#31
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:46

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I didn't get that. He was 100% approval. He told my character to stick by him. My male Cousland did. If you let him fight he takes the throne himself. If hardened he does an excellent job. A male warden get a -2 for putting him on the throne. Not a major issue. The player should just pick the person they want for the best possible ending they want.

 

This is why I hate some of the stupidity that goes on at the landsmeet. Some of it is trickery. Some of it is treachery. Some of it just doesn't make sense, like him blowing you off if he's king and you aren't a noble simply because you have taint in your blood (just like him) and that you won't be able to produce an heir. Sorry but that is about as out of character as they could go. Especially for what hardening was supposed to produce - a man true to himself.... but ironically, he takes the throne if hardened and rather willingly whereas in real life if you tell someone to stand up for themselves or that people are out for themselves and they take it to heart then they would stand up for themselves and NOT willing do what others expected of them when they didn't want to do it for a lifetime.

 

The idiocy around him claiming himself king just because he kills loghain is another stupid little game mechanism that makes no sense if he's not hardened and you supported Anora and did not encourage him to be king. It's like a personality split or something.


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#32
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:55

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Jaison thanks for the clarification:

 

"You get that line if you agree with Riordan about recruiting Loghain. But for that to happen you can't let Alistair duel Loghain personally. "

 

I never agree with Riordan and that is why i don't get this scene.


#33
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:57

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This is why I hate some of the stupidity that goes on at the landsmeet. Some of it is trickery. Some of it is treachery. Some of it just doesn't make sense, like him blowing you off if he's king and you aren't a noble simply because you have taint in your blood (just like him) and that you won't be able to produce an heir. Sorry but that is about as out of character as they could go. Especially for what hardening was supposed to produce - a man true to himself.... but ironically, he takes the throne if hardened and rather willingly whereas in real life if you tell someone to stand up for themselves or that people are out for themselves and they take it to heart then they would stand up for themselves and NOT willing do what others expected of them when they didn't want to do it for a lifetime.

 

The idiocy around him claiming himself king just because he kills loghain is another stupid little game mechanism that makes no sense if he's not hardened and you supported Anora and did not encourage him to be king. It's like a personality split or something.

 

Totally agree. It is very silly. If not hardened I don't see him doing that well.


#34
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Posté 03 avril 2014 - 02:57

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My read on this is still that he doesn't want Anora to be queen, and disapproves of your choice, rather than that he wants it, personally. 

 

IDK.  I ran through the Landsmeet like four times with my Brosca, to try and figure out what hardened!Alistair really wanted.  It's certainly not (I think) easy call, and there's definitely room for interpretation.  I  just feel like being king was the least objectionable of the alternatives he had to pick from, rather than "Ooo, me! Pick me!"

 

You can't really figure out what he wants after hardening because it psychologically makes no sense. I have to say Gaider on this part has ZERO understanding of people right here to add in this hardening bit to work as it does. It runs in direct opposition to common sense, basic humanity, and even the logic that is applied to it does not make sense. It's like entering bizarro world where everything is opposite.

 

Truth is that under no circumstance does alistair really want to be king. If you pay attention to everything he says about the grey wardens, he's not fond of it but it is something he likes the way he liked how training for a templar taught him discipline. He can sink his teeth into that. Just like I supposed hardened alistair could sink his teeth into being king except the hardening itself is illogical in how it changes him.

 

For alistair to really be happy, he needs family. In the fade, when he is trapped with his sister if you go with the 'you seem content' dialogue option you see learn how he really feels. Second option go with the top choice to kind of encourage him to leave with you. Only then can you persuade him out of the dream and then you see the real picture of what he wants. Family. People who care about him that he cares about in his life. That's all that truly matters to him. King with a noble or king with someone he romanced would probably make him happy, but I think that even though he doesn't want to die at the hands of darkspawn, having someone he felt was family, that romance aspect for his character would shift that for him. His main issue is family and not having a sense of belonging and trying to find his place. For him, love seems to accomplish that. So king with a human noble at love status would work (hardened so he seems to accept the role more) or in the grey wardens with a female at love status, both staying with the wardens and the epilogue acknowledges that he is at the side of the woman he loves.


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#35
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Posté 03 avril 2014 - 03:00

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Totally agree. It is very silly. If not hardened I don't see him doing that well.

 

The level of manipulation around hardening and how it is so contrived is just absurd. I prefer him not hardened and not king. Off with the wardens with whatever character I play since I play females. Anora is fine as queen.


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#36
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 03:02

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My read on this is still that he doesn't want Anora to be queen, and disapproves of your choice, rather than that he wants it, personally. 

 

IDK.  I ran through the Landsmeet like four times with my Brosca, to try and figure out what hardened!Alistair really wanted.  It's certainly not (I think) easy call, and there's definitely room for interpretation.  I  just feel like being king was the least objectionable of the alternatives he had to pick from, rather than "Ooo, me! Pick me!"

I agree. It is not an easy call. I always saw him as insecure. To me I just pick him because I want a King or Queen that addresses the needs of all citizens. I don't believe in second class and firmly believe you have to address your weak spots before they become a major issue. 


#37
Mike3207
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 03:08

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The one thing I won't do again-harden Alistair on my male Cousland playthroughs where I marry the Queen and spare Loghain. it's just not a pretty sight.

 

As for hardening Alistair-maybe on the playthroughs where I make him King and marry him to Anora. I've got some mage and nonuman playthroughs now, so there will be some situations where I pursue that option.


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#38
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 03:09

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The level of manipulation around hardening and how it is so contrived is just absurd. I prefer him not hardened and not king. Off with the wardens with whatever character I play since I play females. Anora is fine as queen.

 

The hardening process does seem silly. I think he borrowed it from his book. Loghain hardens Marc and Marc becomes more focused. That is just my opinion. I like the dragon age world so I do read the books for added entertainment even if they don't seem very believable. 


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#39
Akrabra
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 03:23

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Never read the books so don't really know anything about that process, though they seem fairly interesting. I really enjoy Gaider's writing, find it refreshing. Had to watch these harden sequenses on youtube, and they seem abit forced and totally out of character for me. Building the romance on support seems more healthy. Will still go queen though, i like how Aveline mentions in DA2 that he has become a hit with the people.


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#40
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 03:49

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Never read the books so don't really know anything about that process, though they seem fairly interesting. I really enjoy Gaider's writing, find it refreshing. Had to watch these harden sequenses on youtube, and they seem abit forced and totally out of character for me. Building the romance on support seems more healthy. Will still go queen though, i like how Aveline mentions in DA2 that he has become a hit with the people.

 

I like the female Cousland queen. She makes sense to me as well.


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#41
Cat Lance
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 04:31

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I'm playing a female Cousland, for the first time. I didn't harden Alistair, but figure as they've promised to stick together she'll be his queen.

It's gong to be a difficult thing, to go through the dark ritual though, or to not and have to choose who dies. :(
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#42
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 04:42

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I'm playing a female Cousland, for the first time. I didn't harden Alistair, but figure as they've promised to stick together she'll be his queen.

It's gong to be a difficult thing, to go through the dark ritual though, or to not and have to choose who dies. :(

 

If he loves you, he won't let you take the final blow. You have to take the dark ritual to keep him alive. There is a mod that makes the DR less creepy on Nexus.


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#43
DarthGizka
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 04:50

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You don't need any mods to leave Alistair at the gates...


#44
Han Shot First
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 05:36

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The best outcome for Ferelden seems to be Hardened Alistair as King and wed to Anora.


#45
Cobra's_back
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 05:41

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You don't need any mods to leave Alistair at the gates...

 

When I played the mage Alistair was locked in. When I play warrior he was not. Just did the mage about a month ago and I didn't have the option to take him out. 


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#46
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Posté 03 avril 2014 - 05:48

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It has always been out of character for my Warden to harden him so I've never done it. "Everyone is out for themselves," "how could you be so stupid?!" or whatever is too cynical.

 

Leliana on the other hand is very easy for me to harden. It's more believable. She was an assassin. Saying her **** doesn't stink is stupid. I wasn't going to tell her she was meant for the chantry or not to feel good about killing the ****** who betrayed, tortured, stalked, and tried to kill her.

 

Unfortunately, hardened Leliana doesn't make any sense, at least if you follow any sort of "canon". Her role in asunder, or the Sister Nightingale persona. She's very much a Chantry girl to the bone in this light.


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#47
Jaison1986
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 05:53

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Unfortunately, hardened Leliana doesn't make any sense, at least if you follow any sort of "canon". Her role in asunder, or the Sister Nightingale persona. She's very much a Chantry girl to the bone in this light.

 

Her hardened personality seems to get rather ignored. I half expected to meet her in Awakening while recruiting Sigrun considering what she said in the coronation scene.


#48
Han Shot First
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 05:56

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Her hardened personality seems to get rather ignored. I half expected to meet her in Awakening while recruiting Sigrun considering what she said in the coronation scene.

 

It does seems like the rolled with unhardened Leliana for the canon. Which is a shame in a way, because bard Leliana is a lot more interesting than Chantry nun Leliana.


#49
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Posté 03 avril 2014 - 05:58

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Then again, I have to wonder if it's all an act, and she's been working with the Seekers the whole time. Maybe her time with the Warden and falling in love or getting influence to "harden" goes away eventually anyways.. Because she's simply Deep Cover. Maybe she's the Donnie Brasco of the Dragon Age universe. lol


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#50
cJohnOne
Posté 03 avril 2014 - 06:09

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After you harden Alistair you have to confirm it in camp something like 'It's about time' or something.

 

Personally I like unhardened Alistair but the game makes him act dorky if you don't Harden him.


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