161 réponses à ce sujet

[Jorji Costava]

The Walking Dead game series actually has a timer for dialogue choices and actions, for example there is a situation where two people both need your help, you have to pick one to save in a few seconds or its a game over

 

AFAIK, Alpha Protocol was actually the first game to implement a system like this. There was a timer for every single dialogue choice you made; when the timer ran out, the game just went with whichever option you last had highlighted, so you better hope that was the choice you wanted. I liked the idea. It made dialogue proceed at a much more natural rhythm, but every time someone suggests doing something like this for a Bioware game, people seem pretty hostile to the idea.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It's probably more fair to look at it as individual instances rather than generalize is as a whole. There are some times where choosing paragon should have more impact. Saving the Council, is an example. But there isn't much the writers can do. They can't have if it so if you save them then the Reapers come streaming in.

On the other hand, I can think of telling Jack to kill the guy on Pragia. This is a psychopathic super-biotic with a history of abuse, violence, drug use, and murder. And then you call her a murderer and tell her to keep on doing so. Maybe that should have had a difference. But it can't really come into the story, there are restrictions to avoid having Shepard and Co die before the last game.  

[DeinonSlayer]

AFAIK, Alpha Protocol was actually the first game to implement a system like this. There was a timer for every single dialogue choice you made; when the timer ran out, the game just went with whichever option you last had highlighted, so you better hope that was the choice you wanted. I liked the idea. It made dialogue proceed at a much more natural rhythm, but every time someone suggests doing something like this for a Bioware game, people seem pretty hostile to the idea.

So long as there's enough time to read our options, I have no problem with time limits. Instead of running with whatever you last highlighted, though, maybe "unpersuasive Shep" could become "indecisive Shep" and the narrative would move on without you? Someone else would make the choice for you or the situation would just keep moving?

I can imagine there would be people pulling "MuteShep" playthroughs, then... eh, just a thought.

[Steelcan]

I think that if Shepard takes too long the middle option sho/-

 

 

oh wait....

[Bob from Accounting]

AFAIK, Alpha Protocol was actually the first game to implement a system like this. There was a timer for every single dialogue choice you made; when the timer ran out, the game just went with whichever option you last had highlighted, so you better hope that was the choice you wanted. I liked the idea. It made dialogue proceed at a much more natural rhythm, but every time someone suggests doing something like this for a Bioware game, people seem pretty hostile to the idea.

 

What does such a thing actually add?

 

If a player is concerned about their conversations proceeding at a 'natural rhythm,' they can simply pick a choice quickly themselves.

[Jorji Costava]

So long as there's enough time to read our options, I have no problem with time limits. Instead of running with whatever you last highlighted, though, maybe "unpersuasive Shep" could become "indecisive Shep" and the narrative would move on without you? Someone else would make the choice for you or the situation would just keep moving?

I can imagine there would be people pulling "MuteShep" playthroughs, then... eh, just a thought.

 

In AP the timer moved rather quick. Every dialogue option was of three kinds, reflecting the three "JB's": Jason Bourne (professional), Jack Bauer (aggressive), and James Bond (suave). Dialogue generally ran true to form; I don't recall too many instances of choosing "Professional" and getting something that sounded really aggressive or something. Also, your character was a spy, so it was pretty easy to rationalize anything that sounded a bit out of character as not truly reflecting the PC's state of mind at that time.

 

Something like what you describe could work. Perhaps instead of just rolling with whatever you last picked, the system could require you to actively choose an option before the timer ran out; if you didn't, then you'd just get a suboptimal "Err ... umm..." option. Is that like what you had in mind?

 

What does such a thing actually add?

 

If a player is concerned about their conversations proceeding at a 'natural rhythm,' they can simply pick a choice quickly themselves.

 

This is the only thing I'll say about this, and it's probably too much already, as the only possible outcome of pursuing this is massive thread derailment. The point is to add a sense of tension to the dialogue sequences, and add to the sense that the stakes are high and time is limited. In the espionage world, pretty much every conversation you have can be pretty high stakes. As I see it, one of the nice things about games is that they enable you to simulate experiences you could not have ordinarily; a conversation timer helps you do that.

 

As to the whole, "Why not just pick a choice quickly" argument, there are limits to this kind of logic. For instance, why bother having your character take damage at all? If you're concerned with realism and challenge, then just quit the game and reload from an earlier point once you think your character has taken too many hits. But that doesn't really seem like the best way to go. Games are built around rule systems, and rules are constraints on what the player can and can't do. Whether or not a given constraint is justified depends on whether or not it serves the story; I think that in the right circumstances, a conversation timer can do just that.

[Bob from Accounting]

And what of the 95% of dialogue that isn't high stakes or high tension, and thus really shouldn't be emulating a high tension atmosphere?

[DeinonSlayer]

In AP the timer moved rather quick. Every dialogue option was of three kinds, reflecting the three "JB's": Jason Bourne (professional), Jack Bauer (aggressive), and James Bond (suave). Dialogue generally ran true to form; I don't recall too many instances of choosing "Professional" and getting something that sounded really aggressive or something. Also, your character was a spy, so it was pretty easy to rationalize anything that sounded a bit out of character as not truly reflecting the PC's state of mind at that time.

Something like what you describe could work. Perhaps instead of just rolling with whatever you last picked, the system could require you to actively choose an option before the timer ran out; if you didn't, then you'd just get a suboptimal "Err ... umm..." option. Is that like what you had in mind?

Pretty much. That's basically what the player is doing if they can't decide.

Very basic idea, probably applicable only to high-stakes situations. During low-stakes conversations, I suppose there would be other options.

[ImaginaryMatter]

In AP the timer moved rather quick. Every dialogue option was of three kinds, reflecting the three "JB's": Jason Bourne (professional), Jack Bauer (aggressive), and James Bond (suave). Dialogue generally ran true to form; I don't recall too many instances of choosing "Professional" and getting something that sounded really aggressive or something. Also, your character was a spy, so it was pretty easy to rationalize anything that sounded a bit out of character as not truly reflecting the PC's state of mind at that time.

 

Something like what you describe could work. Perhaps instead of just rolling with whatever you last picked, the system could require you to actively choose an option before the timer ran out; if you didn't, then you'd just get a suboptimal "Err ... umm..." option. Is that like what you had in mind?

 

 

This is the only thing I'll say about this, and it's probably too much already, as the only possible outcome of pursuing this is massive thread derailment. The point is to add a sense of tension to the dialogue sequences, and add to the sense that the stakes are high and time is limited. In the espionage world, pretty much every conversation you have can be pretty high stakes. As I see it, one of the nice things about games is that they enable you to simulate experiences you could not have ordinarily; a conversation timer helps you do that.

 

As to the whole, "Why not just pick a choice quickly" argument, there are limits to this kind of logic. For instance, why bother having your character take damage at all? If you're concerned with realism and challenge, then just quit the game and reload from an earlier point once you think your character has taken too many hits. But that doesn't really seem like the best way to go. Games are built around rule systems, and rules are constraints on what the player can and can't do. Whether or not a given constraint is justified depends on whether or not it serves the story; I think that in the right circumstances, a conversation timer can do just that.

 

I like your posts man, they are quite refreshing.

[Bob from Accounting]

Also, have you considered how this emulated tone will clash with the 'Investigate' options? Is it going to hold up when the player can spend a minute asking questions in the middle of a firefight or when someone has a gun pointed at him? Perhaps even be a detriment?

[NeroonWilliams]

I'm impressed that your mum can actually work a video game, OP. My dad gave up on them completely after he decided that being shot from behind in Halo was "too unfair." That said, I would not want either of my parents to play too far into Mass Effect. I can just imagine their faces after entering Chora's Den.

 

"..so this is why you spent all your time in your room alone, son?"

Oh no, mom can't work the controls one bit.  This playthrough is a hybrid of me doing all of the moving around and mom making all of the dialogue choices.  The second session ended with her saying how "this could get addictive".

 

As to Chora's Den, I've made sure to turn around and have her hear the commentary from all of the squadmates that have been with as they've gone in.  She DID decline to take a seat however.

[mopotter]

I'm impressed that your mum can actually work a video game, OP. My dad gave up on them completely after he decided that being shot from behind in Halo was "too unfair." That said, I would not want either of my parents to play too far into Mass Effect. I can just imagine their faces after entering Chora's Den.

 

"..so this is why you spent all your time in your room alone, son?"

And this is why I refuse to play any MMO game.  He's right.  It's why I only play single player games like ME or the Borderlands games.      

[mopotter]

My Dad gave up on video games after watching Sonic drown over and over in Chemical Plant. He still says he's too traumatized to continue (jokingly), and just shakes his head and says, "I'm sorry Sonic! I'm sorry!"

I gave up on Zelda when he kept falling into the lava or something.  I just could not get him to jump correctly.  There are some games I have trouble with even on casual.  

[mopotter]

Oh no, mom can't work the controls one bit.  This playthrough is a hybrid of me doing all of the moving around and mom making all of the dialogue choices.  The second session ended with her saying how "this could get addictive".

 

As to Chora's Den, I've made sure to turn around and have her hear the commentary from all of the squadmates that have been with as they've gone in.  She DID decline to take a seat however.

 

Oh no, mom can't work the controls one bit.  This playthrough is a hybrid of me doing all of the moving around and mom making all of the dialogue choices.  The second session ended with her saying how "this could get addictive".

 

As to Chora's Den, I've made sure to turn around and have her hear the commentary from all of the squadmates that have been with as they've gone in.  She DID decline to take a seat however.

  This is pretty much how I started playing.  My step-daughter when she was around 6 had me play Mario while she watched or if she got stuck she gave me the controller and asked me to do it.  I found out I loved it.

[Massa FX]

I got my Mother to create a femshep on my Xbox360 in 2012. She seemed to enjoy the creation tool. She said it was like paper dolls.

 

RIP Mom. (1-8-2013)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You know I think age has a lot to do with it. I think it has to do with the fact that we don't feel the need to be nice to everyone anymore. We've had to take enough s*** and sometimes we feel like dishing it out. And this is a way we can do it without hurting anyone. Like throwing that merc out the window. Or beating the hell out of Elias Kelham.

 

This thread needs a Justified gif.

 

[Iakus]

Ah, Boyd Crowder.  The antihero you love to hate.

[AlanC9]

I'm feeling sorry for him after seeing the setup for next season.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Boyd is one of my favorites in that show. I like Boyd as much as I do Raylan. 

 

I got started playing when my stepson got into a little friendly contest with Tie Fighter Defender of the Empire. I loved it. I was good at it. We were evenly matched. I scored "The Emperor's Eye." He scored "The Emperor's Hand." We got rid of them pesky rebels.

[Bob from Accounting]

You know I think age has a lot to do with it. I think it has to do with the fact that we don't feel the need to be nice to everyone anymore. We've had to take enough s*** and sometimes we feel like dishing it out. And this is a way we can do it without hurting anyone. Like throwing that merc out the window. Or beating the hell out of Elias Kelham.

 

Really.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Really.

 

Yeah, really. Wait until you turn 50. You'll start saying s*** you never would have believed would come out of your mouth.

[Bob from Accounting]

Such as what?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I don't want to get banned right at the moment. So I'll forgive your transgression.

[Cknarf]

I'm trying to get my lady to try Mass Effect.  She just sighs, and walks out of the room.  Oh well.  I got her to play Skyrim at least.

I'm looking forward to more posts about your mom's experience.  I'd like to see a compiled list of her choices as she progresses.  Maybe an image of her Shepard as well.

[FlyingSquirrel]

My mom and dad are both sci-fi fans (they let me start watching Classic Doctor Who on PBS when I was only 5 or 6) and sometimes played video games with me when I was growing up in the mid-1980s, mostly on the Apple computer we had or on the NES, but then they stopped keeping up with it (though they'd sometimes watch what I was doing). I remember trying to teach my mom how to play Super Mario Kart battle mode and she had a tough time keeping up with the controls and the pace of the game.

 

I've told them a little about Mass Effect - I showed them a music video I made, and I told them about a few of the funnier parts like the elcor speech patterns or Shepard's e-mail getting spammed in ME2 - but they don't seem especially interested to hear more about it, and I'm not sure if they fully understand how much more sophisticated and intricate games have become over the years. I told my mom about how long it took me to finish Fallout 3 and her response was, "Well, didn't Myst take almost that long?"