100 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Usually it lasts until they create a new login name, use a new IP or find a proxy server.

Really? No more defined time periods, just three strikes and you're permabanned?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Really? No more defined time periods, just three strikes and you're permabanned?

 

I wouldn't be surprised. 3 warning points for stupid stuff and you're gone forever. That said, I have one warning point for the image spam that we did a few days ago.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Whoa. I've got 2 for "abuse." Obviously the mods and I have different ideas of what constitutes abuse.

 

Do they wear off?

[DeinonSlayer]

I wouldn't be surprised. 3 warning points for stupid stuff and you're gone forever. That said, I have one warning point for the image spam that we did a few days ago.

Same. I wonder if they expire.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I always think of the mentions of Dark Energy problems as a possible way to connect the two stories by perhaps it being foreshadowing not for the Reapers but whatever the next big threat is. 

 

There were a lot of things in ME2 that had organic/synthetic undertones, too.

 

Aside from all the Tali/Legion stuff, there was also the rogue-VI sidequests, and hell even Overlord DLC.

 

Only real difference is that it's not as salient to the player; "OMG organics vs. synthetics" or anything to that effect is never uttered so clearly in those moments, whereas "OMG Dark Energy" is said every time Dark Energy comes up.

 

I truly believe that what we got was in their heads then every bit as much as DE (neither one clear, but both are foreshadowed a bit).

[CronoDragoon]

No, the dark energy plot sounds awful. Where the organic/synthetic plot failed was in the details, at its most basic form - say explained with the same level of detail as we know about the dark energy theory - it sounds much better. Obviously by that same token they could have possibly executed the DE theory better than they executed the O/S theory...but that's sort of irrelevant to the theory itself.

 

People already complain that the Reaper plot is boiled down to organics/synthetics in the ending and that this wasn't the "main theme" of Mass Effect....what would that complaint look like if the Reapers were boiled down to something mentioned in passing a few times during the series?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I'd say the actual main theme was the individual (Shepard) versus the collective (The Reapers, a collective of collectives.) 

In ME, the Geth were just tools of Saren and Sovereign. 

So yeah, if it was boiled down to dark energy, it would be unfortunate. 

[FlyingSquirrel]

The ending I've heard rumored as part of the dark energy plot - Shepard sacrifices the entire human race to the Reapers or destroys them and risks everyone being wiped out by dark energy - would have probably been even more infuriating than the endings we got, and would have been an even bigger case of rendering past choices irrelevant. After all, if the story ends with Shepard deciding that s/he's basically been fighting on the wrong side, then what was the point of any of it?

 

Also, the whole idea of a prior civilization turning themselves into Reapers as part of an attempt to stop the dark energy threat just seems crazy to me. Even if they were convinced that merging themselves into a collective intelligence was necessary to figure out a way to stop dark energy, then...

 

(a) Why not just "digitize" themselves like the supposed "virtual aliens" or do something along the lines of what the geth were planning with their Dyson sphere?

 

( Why go through all these repeated harvests and genocides instead of simply contacting the existing races to tell them about the dark energy problem?

 

© Or, alternatively, why not just leave other civilizations alone for the time being and invest their resources into research instead of repeating the cycles?

 

It would be like humans responding to an energy crisis by launching themselves into space and powering the spaceships by burning themselves alive.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

 

© Or, alternatively, why not just leave other civilizations alone for the time being and invest their resources into research instead of repeating the cycles?

 

It would be like humans responding to an energy crisis by launching themselves into space and powering the spaceships by burning themselves alive.

It would be worse than "Yo, in order to stop synthetics from killing organics, I created synthetics to kill organics."

It would then be "Yo, in order to prevent dark energy manipulation causing stars to collapse, we gave organics the technology to manipulate dark energy so they progress along the path we want, so we can stop it..... somehow." 

[FlyingSquirrel]

You've got to be kidding me?

The fact that they are an imperialist, self centered, and culturally arrogant society isn't why we dislike them, its cause they are women and we are too immature to handle that.

Gorram genius

 

How are the asari imperialist? They expand and found colonies, but so do almost all the other species except the ones under sanction (krogan, yahg) or the ones who choose to live as migrants instead of settling down somewhere (quarians).

 

Self-centered? Their government's cover-up of the prothean tech was self-centered, but I don't see that as a characteristic of asari in general. Liara and Samara can both be single-minded, but not strictly for their own benefit. Shiala volunteers to stay on a human colony to help repair the damage she unintentionally caused. Falere agrees to live in isolation to spare Samara the conflict with her code. The detective on Illium carries out an arrest order that may well mean her own death. There are self-centered villains in ME who happen to be asari, sure, but I don't think they're any more or less self-centered on average than any other species.

 

Same with "cultural arrogance" - I don't necessarily pick that up from asari any more often than from characters of any other species. What about Dalatrass Linron and her attitude towards the krogan, or the batarian on Omega who says that he didn't think human nobility existed if Shepard rescues Mordin's assistant without any shots being fired, or Joram Talid and his human-bashing campaign for political office?

[Perpetual Nirvana]

Hell no. From what I've read, the Dark Energy ending sounds worse that what we actually got and that's saying something.

 

If I didn't know any better I'd swear Bioware leaked the Dark Energy ending on purpose to make the Catalyst look better by comparison.

[shit's fucked cunts]

How are the asari imperialist? They expand and found colonies, but so do almost all the other species except the ones under sanction (krogan, yahg) or the ones who choose to live as migrants instead of settling down somewhere (quarians).

 

Self-centered? Their government's cover-up of the prothean tech was self-centered, but I don't see that as a characteristic of asari in general. Liara and Samara can both be single-minded, but not strictly for their own benefit. Shiala volunteers to stay on a human colony to help repair the damage she unintentionally caused. Falere agrees to live in isolation to spare Samara the conflict with her code. The detective on Illium carries out an arrest order that may well mean her own death. There are self-centered villains in ME who happen to be asari, sure, but I don't think they're any more or less self-centered on average than any other species.

 

Same with "cultural arrogance" - I don't necessarily pick that up from asari any more often than from characters of any other species. What about Dalatrass Linron and her attitude towards the krogan, or the batarian on Omega who says that he didn't think human nobility existed if Shepard rescues Mordin's assistant without any shots being fired, or Joram Talid and his human-bashing campaign for political office?

 

Steechan is one crazy bitch, you've gotta give him that.

[CrutchCricket]

Now that I know where they were going with it...no. 

 

As much as I didn't care for the original endings to ME3, at least it didn't turn the Reapers into misunderstood rescuers looking to save the universe from an accelerated heat death.

 

Right, instead the Reapers just turned into misunderstood rescuers looking to save the universe from... Skynet... and also themselves... because reasons....

 

Much better.

 

There's a pattern here: Reapers aren't the enemy, they're just poor little machines trying to prevent some bullshit ill-defined problem through the most inefficient and contrived means possible and in the end we must work with them (or at least accept their reasoning as valid even if we reject it) to solve the problem.

 

Gag me with a spoon. That's the real problem right there. I don't care if you want to save me from Skynet or dark energy or fuzzy bunnies from hell, a genociding mecha-Cthulu army of killbots isn't my friend. Until that's removed, no amount of foreshadowing or changes in details will make it good.

 

That being said, at least dark energy would've been something different. Skynet's been done to death before. And an exacerbated natural reaction-> natural disaster is more credible than "you will always create Skynet herpderp". They'd just need to remove the inherent yo dawgness and Humanity is Special trope, as well as the above problem and it'd be OK.

 

Then again, we can't really compare dark energy to what we got. Even though some elements setting it up made it into ME2, dark energy never really left the brainstorming stage. Meanwhile lolsyntheticswilldestroyorganics is being shoved down our throats as a polished, well rounded ending. For that insult alone I say dark energy is better.

 

**** if I care what their government does. That isn't "the asari" to me. The asari are the families, the women, the children, the sisters, the wives, the husb.. uh, the other wives, the schools, the sports clubs, the charities, the people. That's why when people claim that they'd bring the Hand of God down on "the asari" in the control ending for holding onto the beacon, they just look like an absolute maniac.

 

So you'd be OK if I just melt the matriarchs?

 

People already complain that the Reaper plot is boiled down to organics/synthetics in the ending and that this wasn't the "main theme" of Mass Effect....what would that complaint look like if the Reapers were boiled down to something mentioned in passing a few times during the series?

 

Also a good point. A reduction of the Reapers from an angle I hadn't considered before. Basically the Reapers should be the threat of their own saga. Otherwise we might as well have the Reapers trying to solve the problem of the Conrad Verners of the cycles- it'd be basically the same "logic".

[shit's fucked cunts]

So you'd be OK if I just melt the matriarchs?

 

Absolutely. Being pro-Liara, I'm often mistaken for being pro-asari. Melt away.

[CrutchCricket]

How are the asari imperialist? They expand and found colonies, but so do almost all the other species except the ones under sanction (krogan, yahg) or the ones who choose to live as migrants instead of settling down somewhere (quarians).

 

Self-centered? Their government's cover-up of the prothean tech was self-centered, but I don't see that as a characteristic of asari in general. Liara and Samara can both be single-minded, but not strictly for their own benefit. Shiala volunteers to stay on a human colony to help repair the damage she unintentionally caused. Falere agrees to live in isolation to spare Samara the conflict with her code. The detective on Illium carries out an arrest order that may well mean her own death. There are self-centered villains in ME who happen to be asari, sure, but I don't think they're any more or less self-centered on average than any other species.

 

Same with "cultural arrogance" - I don't necessarily pick that up from asari any more often than from characters of any other species. What about Dalatrass Linron and her attitude towards the krogan, or the batarian on Omega who says that he didn't think human nobility existed if Shepard rescues Mordin's assistant without any shots being fired, or Joram Talid and his human-bashing campaign for political office?

 

This isn't a good argument. You're basically saying "here are some individuals who don't exhibit these traits". Thefore their society can be cleared of all charges? Your reply is just as much a false generalization as what you're assuming Steelcan said.

 

Not to mention that your point would imply that anyone who belongs to an imperialist self-centered and culturally arrogant society can't possibly be altruistic, collaborative and culturally sensitive. Which would be even worse I think.

[Excella Gionne]

I think at the least, the Catalyst should have mentioned the Dark Energy spread to Shepard when the Catalyst is talking about the "Destroy" option. Killing the Reapers will end the cycle, but the spread of Dark Energy would still be a major problem in the end.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

This isn't a good argument. You're basically saying "here are some individuals who don't exhibit these traits". Thefore their society can be cleared of all charges? Your reply is just as much a false generalization as what you're assuming Steelcan said.

 

Not to mention that your point would imply that anyone who belongs to an imperialist self-centered and culturally arrogant society can't possibly be altruistic, collaborative and culturally sensitive. Which would be even worse I think.

 

It's no more ridiculous than wanting to burn Thessia for something only the upper echelons of the Asari government knew about. Even the Councillor doesn't know about it until just before she contacts Shepard.

 

Not saying that you do but that's how some posters feel.

[CrutchCricket]

It's no more ridiculous than wanting to burn Thessia for something only the upper echelons of the Asari government knew about. Even the Councillor doesn't know about it until just before she contacts Shepard.

 

Not saying that you do but that's how some posters feel.

 

Debatable since this argument was presented as genuine, while the "lolburnthessia" posts always feel way too over-the-top to be serious. But you never know.

 

And yes, I'm a Controller but I don't give a **** about galactic politics once I get the power. There's a whole universe out there to explore, you puny organics are on your own.

[AlanC9]

Gag me with a spoon. That's the real problem right there. I don't care if you want to save me from Skynet or dark energy or fuzzy bunnies from hell, a genociding mecha-Cthulu army of killbots isn't my friend. Until that's removed, no amount of foreshadowing or changes in details will make it good.
(snip)
Then again, we can't really compare dark energy to what we got. Even though some elements setting it up made it into ME2, dark energy never really left the brainstorming stage.

But the design intent for Dark Energy was based on your "real problem." There's no chance any version of the plot wouldn't have had that issue. If you really do have a fundamental problem there, then DE would never have worked for you either.

[Farangbaa]

Debatable since this argument was presented as genuine, while the "lolburnthessia" posts always feel way too over-the-top to be serious. But you never know.

 

And yes, I'm a Controller but I don't give a **** about galactic politics once I get the power. There's a whole universe out there to explore, you puny organics are on your own.

 

Oh sh... we got a Reaper here.

[CrutchCricket]

But the design intent for Dark Energy was based on your "real problem." There's no chance any version of the plot wouldn't have had that issue. If you really do have a fundamental problem there, then DE would never have worked for you either.

 

Yes it's that intent that's the problem. Or at least the biggest problem. I'm not convinced you need to do it for Dark Energy though. In fact I'm sure you don't.

 

DE is a problem. Reapers wipe out all species to keep it under control but they don't want to give it up. Why should they? It becomes a case of "only we can use it". Maybe they genuinely think they can manage their usage best, maybe they're just selfish (as well as shellfish hey-yo!*). They're still trying to find a more permanent solution but it's just long term self-preservation, not pseudo-environmentalism.

 

The cycles are there only for Reaper reproduction and the pinnacle of Reaper advancement comes from haversting a spaceflight era civilization (throw in some minor retcons about species genetically improving themselves so that Reapers don't have to and some technobabble about why genetically "better" species make better Reaper superconducting fluid). The controlling aspects of the cycles (develop along the paths we desire and so on) remain.

 

The ending involves a separate AI/VI Catalyst to run the Crucible giving you the chance to destroy the Reapers because they're genocidal control freaks with the caveat that you'll have to deal with the dark energy problem yourself, on your own, control them so you can use their advancements to try and work the problem out faster with the caveat that this may accelerate buildup due to more usage or... well synthesis doesn't really work here so let's just forget that. Oh and no bullshit arbitrary consequences (lolrelaysdestroyeddamaged, geth destroyed etc.)

 

There you go. DE without "aww Reapers were misunderstood saviours yo-dawging it the whole time".

 

*Sorry about this one. That was terrible.

[Steelcan]

How are the asari imperialist? They expand and found colonies, but so do almost all the other species except the ones under sanction (krogan, yahg) or the ones who choose to live as migrants instead of settling down somewhere (quarians).

 

Self-centered? Their government's cover-up of the prothean tech was self-centered, but I don't see that as a characteristic of asari in general. Liara and Samara can both be single-minded, but not strictly for their own benefit. Shiala volunteers to stay on a human colony to help repair the damage she unintentionally caused. Falere agrees to live in isolation to spare Samara the conflict with her code. The detective on Illium carries out an arrest order that may well mean her own death. There are self-centered villains in ME who happen to be asari, sure, but I don't think they're any more or less self-centered on average than any other species.

 

Same with "cultural arrogance" - I don't necessarily pick that up from asari any more often than from characters of any other species. What about Dalatrass Linron and her attitude towards the krogan, or the batarian on Omega who says that he didn't think human nobility existed if Shepard rescues Mordin's assistant without any shots being fired, or Joram Talid and his human-bashing campaign for political office?

Congratulations you made a post that did absolutely nothing to refute any point that I raised

[AlanC9]

Yes it's that intent that's the problem. Or at least the biggest problem. I'm not convinced you need to do it for Dark Energy though. In fact I'm sure you don't.
 

My point was that you're getting the process backward. Dark Energy existed to support the intent, not the other way around.

[CrutchCricket]

My point was that you're getting the process backward. Dark Energy existed to support the intent, not the other way around.

 

How do you know?

 

And if that's the case we can chalk up the intent as the original sin of this whole debacle.

[Han Shot First]

Right, instead the Reapers just turned into misunderstood rescuers looking to save the universe from... Skynet... and also themselves... because reasons....

 

Much better.

 

 

 

I didn't say that the original endings of Mass Effect 3 were good. I just said that the Dark Energy plot was worse. What makes the DE plot worse is that it would have given the Reapers an actual problem they were trying to fix (heat death of the universe). Destroy the Reapers, and you condemn the galaxy to an early demise. 

 

That isn't the case with the shipped endings where you can at least destroy the Reapers without dooming the universe.