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[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

'Men and women are evenly represented in most organisations, noble houses and military forces.' - The Dragon Age: Origins character creator.

 

 
A quick couple of hours in, and we see this quote does not hold true: We know that female grey wardens are unusual thanks to some dialogue, that the army fighting the darkspawn mainly contains men, that the redcliffe knights are all men, that generic templars are pretty much exclusively male, that the town guard was almost exclusively male and that even in the final battle there is barely a female soldier to be seen. 
 
(In the case of Redcliffe there is much more disturbing sexism, where all the 'weak and helpless' women are told to hide themselves in the chantry while we force all the 'brave, strong and chivalrous' men we can to 'gallantly' defend them, but this is not the thread for that particularly discussion).
 
This doesn't really sound like 'even' representation.
 
In Dragon Age 2, this got slightly better: there were specific named NPCs in both the guard and the templars who were female, including our beloved Meredith. However, once again the generic (i.e. non-named) templars and guardsmen were male.
 
You may say that 'military' organisations are the exception, but that raises another problem: if this is the case, then military jobs must therefore be very common for men to have, and as such we should be seeing mainly women doing other jobs or roles. But in this regard, with merchants or people working in a tavern or even beggars, the split IS roughly 50/50, and that just doesn't make any sense. 
 
This eventually means that there are more men than women in Dragon Age, which is a bit of an odd situation, albeit not impossible (although one would expect that such an important plot detail wouldn't have been left out for two games).
 
Now, presuming that this isn't true and females have just been neglected slightly from presentation, I am starting to worry that the same will be true in DA:I
 
While it is true that at the moment there seems to be 3 female followers and 6 male, it is unfair to talk about that, as we don't know for certain that this is the case (and in my opinion, it probably won't be). BUT the theme of men being the only generic soldiers continues to be shown, at least if this image is anything to go by:
 

 
At least, I think these are men. I may be mistaken.
 
Even in concept art, which one would think would be far easier to facilitate, soldiers are male: 
 

As Bioware have stated in the past, they tend to work on the male models first for whatever reason. And, this being an early image, I hope that means that female soldiers are being added in. However, with Mr. Gaider's stating that they are reluctant to add in two models for something in case it takes away resources they could use to do things they consider more important in the Male Desire Demon thread, I remain slightly nervous that this trend of female under-representation will continue.
 
Thanks for reading, and please do let me know what your thoughts are on the matter

[SerriceIceDandy]

I think it's just the old chestnut of that multiple models are extra work/take up too much space. I know that Thedas is a much more socioculturally advanced that our own world at a comparable time period (you know, minus the magic and dragons), but maybe  the fact less women are in military/guard forces are for similar reasons as our own world? 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

that ^ and

 

hey, have you seen a male priest in Thedas (aside of Haven)? i think female/male ratio is fine as it is.

[smoke and mirrors]

I seem to remember women at Ostagar and there was Ser Cauthrien ( who i loved ) but the rest of the time there seemed to be no women around

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I think it's just the old chestnut of that multiple models are extra work/take up too much space. I know that Thedas is a much more socioculturally advanced that our own world at a comparable time period (you know, minus the magic and dragons), but maybe  the fact less women are in military/guard forces are for similar reasons as our own world? 

 

Oh, I would be absolutely fine with that reason. 

 

However, Bioware states that women are equally represented. And, in game, they are not.

 

I think that this would be something worth resources, as Bioware always tries to not be sexist. Furthermore, I'm not sure it would take that much extra resource: The armor is presumably obtainable and wearable by the inquisitor in some way, and since the inquisitor can be human female and the helmets are always on, you would think that the required models would already exist!

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

that ^ and

 

hey, have you seen a male priest in Thedas (aside of Haven)? i think female/male ratio is fine as it is.

 

But that is a deliberate fact, as men aren't ALLOWED to be priests, whereas women clearly ARE allowed to be soldiers, and are supposed to be equally represented in most organisations.

 

Besides, even with the priests being female there are still a lot more men than women, as a result of there being far more soldiers than priests, and while you may be okay with a female/male ratio that favours males, I'm not sure we should be.

[KaiserShep]

The reason there's so much more male generic soldiers is because at any given time, one of them might have to give off a Wilhelm scream when an ancient horror comes out of nowhere and kills them in droves.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

But that is a deliberate fact, as men aren't ALLOWED to be priests, whereas women clearly ARE allowed to be soldiers, and are supposed to be equally represented in most organisations.

and women usually don't grab a sword and armour. with a few exceptions. and even if males and females of Thedas are equals, it not always was so (Aveline's story)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Just need to say being 'equally represented' doesn't mean equal in number. It is more they are equally respected in those organization, which has proven true. 

[n7stormrunner]

the answer is

 

there is equal then there is Equal. one is purely  numbers the other is what is allowed between groups.

 

have you ever been in a group that was 50/50 split, that did not have something to do with dating or sex?

 

it is beyond rare, hell last time I checked even the population in real life isn't actually a 50/50 split. 

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

and women usually don't grab a sword and armour. with a few exceptions. and even if males and females of Thedas are equals, it not always was so (Aveline's story)

 

Just because that's the case in our universe, doesn't mean it's the case in the Dragon Age universe.

 

Again, females are equally represented in most organisations in Dragon age, yet they don't seem to be equally represented in any except the circles and cartas.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

the answer is

 

there is equal then there is Equal. one is purely  numbers the other is what is allowed between groups.

 

have you ever been in a group that was 50/50 split, that did not have something to do with dating or sex?

 

it is beyond rare, hell last time I checked even the population in real life isn't actually a 50/50 split. 

 

That's theoretically true, but just doesn't hold here.

 

It's not the case that there are 45.67% female soldiers and 54.33% male soldiers. It's that there are 95% male soldiers and 5% female.

 

Furthermore, the statement is not that men and women are 'equal' in Ferelden. The statement is that they are 'equally represented', which is a much more interesting and relevant claim.

 

I don't care that it's exactly 50/50, but I do care the claim isn't even CLOSE to being true

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Just need to say being 'equally represented' doesn't mean equal in number. It is more they are equally respected in those organization, which has proven true. 

 

'Represent' and 'respect' aren't synonyms.

 

If the two sexes are 'equally represented', that means that they are displayed to a near-same capacity.

 

'Equally represented' does not mean the same as 'Men and women are considered as equals': while one leads to the other, the first states that the numbers of each are near equal.

[n7stormrunner]

That's theoretically true, but just doesn't hold here.

 

It's not the case that there are 45.67% female soldiers and 54.33% male soldiers. It's that there are 95% male soldiers and 5% female.

 

Furthermore, the statement is not that men and women are 'equal' in Ferelden. The statement is that they are 'equally represented', which is a much more interesting and relevant claim.

 

I don't care that it's exactly 50/50, but I do care the claim isn't even CLOSE to being true

 

 

I tried, now I am going to bed

[Wulfram]

I think the character creation description was in error.  Seems more like a holdover from the language of previous games than something that reflects the situation in Thedas.

 

Though overall you're right to say that their depiction of gender balance in Thedas have been a bit all over the place.  I think Ostagar adequately reflects Bioware's intent - female warriors aren't exactly unusual, but they are a minority - but Redcliffe was definitely weird with the immediate assumption that the women all hide away while only cowardly men would do so.  And the Templars in DA:O were pretty clearly intended as a male monastic order - the counterpart of the female priests - but this obviously hasn't lasted.

 

If we're spending time in Orlais, then it's been established that female chevaliers are still something of a rarity.  Though I wouldn't mind if they decided to retcon that.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I tried, now I am going to bed

...That...isn't an effective argument

[Innsmouth Dweller]

Just because that's the case in our universe, doesn't mean it's the case in the Dragon Age universe.

 

Again, females are equally represented in most organisations in Dragon age, yet they don't seem to be equally represented in any except the circles and cartas.

why not? is there some lore-thing for that as well? i really don't think they should force in women just to make even split in army gender ratio

 

i didn't even pay attention to the ratio in Redcliffe. now that you realized it to me, it really seems bizzare. damn you!

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I think the character creation description was in error.  Seems more like a holdover from the language of previous games than something that reflects the situation in Thedas.

 

Though overall you're right to say that their depiction of gender balance in Thedas have been a bit all over the place.  I think Ostagar adequately reflects Bioware's intent - female warriors aren't exactly unusual, but they are a minority - but Redcliffe was definitely weird with the immediate assumption that the women all hide away while only cowardly men would do so.  And the Templars in DA:O were pretty clearly intended as a male monastic order - the counterpart of the female priests - but this obviously hasn't lasted.

 

If we're spending time in Orlais, then it's been established that female chevaliers are still something of a rarity.  Though I wouldn't mind if they decided to retcon that.

 

I thought it must be an error too: I created thsi thread to hopefully get a definitive Bioware comment that that statement wasn't true.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

why not? is there some lore-thing for that as well? i really don't think they should force in women just to make even split in army gender ratio

 

i didn't even pay attention to the ratio in Redcliffe. now that you realized it to me, it really seems bizzare. damn you!

 

It's not really 'forcing them in' if they've already said that they are equally represented

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I can't help but see this thread as being pointless and needless pedantic.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I can't help but see this thread as being pointless and needless pedantic.

 

What's the difference between this thread and any other pointing out discrepancies in Bioware's lore?

 

Or do you oppose all threads that question lore errors?

 

In that case, I uphold that threads like this are important. We shouldn't, as consumers, blindly accept everything that we see, we have more integrity than that. Or at least, we should.

 

Constructive criticism is how games are improved. Constructive criticism  is how we got the Citadel dlc for me3, and that was very popular.

[Mister Gusty]

I always thought of  the equal representation meaning that a woman could reach any position a man could within an organisation if they chose to(excluding Qunari of course), which is apparent in game 

• Meredith is one of the highest ranks a templar can be, 
• Ser Cauthrien serving directly under Loghain, 
• the numerous senior enchanters in the circle, 
• Fiona was elected as Grand Enchanter, 
• one of the most powerful positions in Thedas, the DIvine is restricted to females, 
• The Quanri operate off of a Triumvirate where up to two of the three leading positions for the Qunari can be female
• Orlais is considered one of the most powerful nations in Thedas and is currently ruled by Empress Celene
• "Traditionally, the Rivaini are a matriarchal society, and much of it's nation still subscribes to the belief that women are best suited to rule" from WOT
• Isabella proves that pirates will follow female captains
• The dalish follow keepers who can be male or female

So there is plenty of evidence IMO, that women are equally represented for the most part

 

 

I can't help but see this thread as being pointless and needless pedantic.

 

and I would have to agree with this statement

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Questioning lore errors is fine, but this thread is not doing that, this thread is being pedantic.

[Grieving Natashina]

I see where the OP is coming from, but I don't think this is going to end well. 

 

 

You'll need that and a good fire retardant suit.

[Chewin]

In the Dragon Age Origins character creator, the game proudly displays that men and women are equally represented in most organisations.
 

Just b/c there is not a high ratio of women when it comes to soldiers / military / templars doesn't mean that the game isn't egalitarian when it comes to the representation of men and women in DA, since there is a reason there generally ins't a lot of women in the army. You have to take note that the female body structure is weaker than the male counterpart. That is not to say that women can't do what men can when it comes to military, since it's perfectly possible they can and sometimes even better. But if you put it into a ratio, there will be more men that will be able to endure all the physical aspects that the military 'offers' than females.

And I don't see why this is really bothersome to others. DA has a vast amount of female characters with different roles in the world of Thedas, some that I find more impressive rather than being a mere generic soldier. Sure, it is nice if BW would have more female soldiers, I welcome it, but don't state that the game is lying or anything.