446 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

They should absolutely not change the lore! World consistency is everything and retcon is the devil. I'd be just as upset if Qunari suddenly had female warriors as I'd be if homosexuality was suddenly outlawed and cause for social pariah status.

[Killdren88]

I guess it goes with the image of Women some people have that they are weak and need to be protected and so on.

That makes some sense I suppose. Just one of those cave man instincts we seem to have trouble evolving from. "Uhhg! Me Protect! Oogabooga! Me smash!"

[Grieving Natashina]

@Spectre I commend you for your honesty, but I have to wonder...

 

[TataJojo]

That makes some sense I suppose. Just one of those cave man instincts we seem to have trouble evolving from. "Uhhg! Me Protect! Oogabooga! Me smash!"

 

I don't know if it's bad wanting to protect, I mean it would definitely feel unsettling to see a child being decapitated ( not that seing anyone be decapitated isn't unsettling trust me I've seen some horrible internet stuff ). But I defintely think it's wrong to be more unsettled by a Woman being decapitated rather than a Man just by the fact that she's a Woman. You should just be horrified by seing a Human being do that sort of stuff to another Human being ( and I can tell you I was... )

[Killdren88]

I don't know if it's bad wanting to protect, I mean it would definitely feel unsettling to see a child being decapitated ( not that seing anyone be decapitated isn't unsettling trust me I've seen some horrible internet stuff ). But I defintely think it's wrong to be more unsettled by a Woman being decapitated rather than a Man just by the fact that she's a Woman. You should just be horrified by seing a Human being do that sort of stuff to another Human being ( and I can tell you I was... )

Yeah in real life yeah. You'd have to be a sociopath not to be unsettled. Yet with video games we get orgies of violence. Only game franchise I've seen that isn't afraid of butchering both genders is Mortal Kombat.

[Cainhurst Crow]

That makes some sense I suppose. Just one of those cave man instincts we seem to have trouble evolving from. "Uhhg! Me Protect! Oogabooga! Me smash!"

That's not a cave man instinct, quite the opposite in fact. It's actually closer to cave man instincts to have no problems with hurting women then it is to want to protect them.

Cave man instincts is taking a rock and bashing a women in the head so she stops making noise/trying to get away.

[Ianamus]

That's not a cave man instinct, quite the opposite in fact. It's actually closer to cave man instincts to have no problems with hurting women then it is to want to protect them.

Cave man instincts is taking a rock and bashing a women in the head so she stops making noise/trying to get away.

 

I don't think so. Giving blunt force trauma to the person who will birth your children is not exactly the best way to keep your lineage going. 

[Fredward]

That's not a cave man instinct, quite the opposite in fact. It's actually closer to cave man instincts to have no problems with hurting women then it is to want to protect them.

Cave man instincts is taking a rock and bashing a women in the head so she stops making noise/trying to get away.

 

"Caveman" here is referring more to antiquated social standards and expectations and less about actual troglodytes.

[Mirrman70]

um just throwing this out here. maybe it is unsettling for them to see women get decapitated simply because it is far less common to se them get ripped apart in video games and movies than it is men. maybe since men have always been the majority victims of severe mutilation in video games it has become easier to see it happen to them. a form of desensitization.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I don't think so. Giving blunt force trauma to the person who will birth your children is not exactly the best way to keep your lineage going.

Can you list why? Its a very simple society, one section hunts, the other section gathers, that's about it. No need of higher brain function required and no concept of laws, moral obligation, or anything of the sort exists in a caveman society.

[Fredward]

um just throwing this out here. maybe it is unsettling for them to see women get decapitated simply because it is far less common to se them get ripped apart in video games and movies than it is men. maybe since men have always been the majority victims of severe mutilation in video games it has become easier to see it happen to them. a form of desensitization.

 

Yeah but so? "Its always been that way" is not really a good argument for something continuing to be that way.

[Ianamus]

Can you list why? Its a very simple society, one section hunts, the other section gathers, that's about it. No need of higher brain function required and no concept of laws, moral obligation, or anything of the sort exists in a caveman society.

 

How many animals can you name where the female is badly physically injured during mating? very few. Most species impress females to mate with them rather than raping them. Obviously evolution decided that males who don't injure the female have more chance of healthy offspring (which is pretty obvious). 

[Spectre Impersonator]

@Spectre I commend you for your honesty, but I have to wonder...

 

Not trolling. I hope that post didn't come across as advocating sexism and homophobia as viewpoints because I don't support them.   Though I'll defend to the death your right to hold them.

 

No, I just think it would add to the DA world to have more injustice floating around. Opposition and conflict are what make Bioware games and while it's true we have plenty of physical conflict with Darkspawn and dragons, I wouldn't mind some more idealogical conflict. Isn't fighting against opposition our reason for playing? Ridding Thedas of the Blight or trying to bring peace to Kirkwall. Bigoted characters are realistic and add further types of opposition to the game world.

[O_OotherSide]

Can you list why? Its a very simple society, one section hunts, the other section gathers, that's about it. No need of higher brain function required and no concept of laws, moral obligation, or anything of the sort exists in a caveman society.

 

Because even animals understand how breeding works and have some form of hierarchy. A male lion is more powerful than a female but rarely hunts. Instead he sits around protecting his territory and females from other males so he can spread his genes.

[Cainhurst Crow]

How many animals can you name where the female is badly physically injured during mating? very few. Most species impress females to mate with them rather than raping them. Obviously evolution decided that males who don't injure the female have more chance of healthy offspring (which is pretty obvious).

Ducks, like every single species of duck. Walrus's and presumably seals try to rape the alpha males harem by sneaking up to them while the alpha's distracted or asleep. A lot of larger predatory mammals like lions and bears have more messed up rituals of killing the females babies to make the female sexually active again, and then raping them, usually because the female matted with another male and the male was beaten by the new challenger.

Animal kingdom has a lot of fucked up things when it comes to spreading the seeds for the new generation.

[Heimdall]

If anything, I'd say the longstanding cultural pressure on men, to the point of being considered a prerequisite of manhood in some circles, to act as protectors of women makes them feel uncomfortable with the idea of killing them en mass. Killing other men is par for the course though.

[drake heath]

I think that's a reasonable assumption actually. I don't play EVE but I know its very stat-heavy and requires constant attention/management to get the best out of. It's often referred to as "spreadsheets online". 3% women is still a tiny number though and can't just be an aversion to stats. A general dislike for the space setting, or maybe a feeling of being detached from your avatar/character? Whatever the reason, it's probably the most male dominated game out there.

 

A good story with believable characters is what most people want. I like realism whenever possible but a fantasy world is always going to have some "fantastic" stuff. 

Science-fiction is generally considered a masculine genre, and finding fun in spreadsheets and math is considered masculine as well.

Most men are masculine, so that's probably why EVE's playerbase is 97% men.

 

Also take into account that EVE is one of those games whose players have been playing for years, or they quit, then it's bound to be predominately men since it was released in 2003.

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

Oh, no. This thread just made me imagine a Broodfather.

Broodfather should be voiced by Ahhhnold Schwarzenegger a la Junior.

[Face of Evil]

Ducks, like every single species of duck. Walrus's and presumably seals try to rape the alpha males harem by sneaking up to them while the alpha's distracted or asleep. A lot of larger predatory mammals like lions and bears have more messed up rituals of killing the females babies to make the female sexually active again, and then raping them, usually because the female matted with another male and the male was beaten by the new challenger.

Animal kingdom has a lot of fucked up things when it comes to spreading the seeds for the new generation.

 

Gorillas are generally gentle, but male gorillas sometimes kill the offspring of rival males to make females available for mating.

[Allan Schumacher]

Not trolling. I hope that post didn't come across as advocating sexism and homophobia as viewpoints because I don't support them.   Though I'll defend to the death your right to hold them.

 

No, I just think it would add to the DA world to have more injustice floating around. Opposition and conflict are what make Bioware games and while it's true we have plenty of physical conflict with Darkspawn and dragons, I wouldn't mind some more idealogical conflict. Isn't fighting against opposition our reason for playing? Ridding Thedas of the Blight or trying to bring peace to Kirkwall. Bigoted characters are realistic and add further types of opposition to the game world.

 

The biggest concern I have is that when people say this, they typically only mean a specific type of injustice.

 

For instance, almost any thread that says they want more mature themes tends to ask for the same things: various isms, rape, torture, and so forth.  I once put forth that I think it'd be interesting if there was a situation where a male character undergoes the threat of rape (or even actual rape) in a particular situation, by an explicitly gay aggressor.  As such, if the character was a woman the situation would be avoided.

 

Not many were keen on it though, as they felt it'd just be obvious trope reversal and would seem forced.  It wasn't satisfying what they were claiming to want (depictions of rape), even though it seemed to hit on the various points that they put forth as far as I was concerned.

[Amarettibiskits]

I don't think you need to bring in 'real world' injustice into Dragon Age. The game is full of fantastical racism/bigotry/tyranny of minorities that work as metaphors for the injustices we see in the real world, and it's unnecessary (and potentially depressing as **** for players who do actually have to deal with RL bigotry) to work in real bigotry alongside the fantastical.

 

In Thedas, no one gives a **** if you're gay, or a woman, or black - but god help you if you're born a mage, or you're a casteless dwarf, or an elf. This is ideal to me. It examines inequality without bogging the game down with real world politics. 

[Steelcan]

*kind of likes Allan's idea*

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't like the idea of Bioware adding in real world prejudices because there's already so few places to escape them. It might be "novel" for the straight, white, heterosexual male to see more bigotry spicing up their experience, but for people that actually have to face it every day, it's often nice to have a break. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

There is where philosophies of playing video games differs. I know myself and others don't use video games to escape real world problems, as such a dependency can form a emotional instability and near psychological addiction to those outlets for relief. I can certainly understand the temptation to do so, but I feel its good to have a barrier of separation, at least emotionally, from what goes on in the game world and what you feel in the real world. The two can meet and intersect, but its not healthy for them to intersect to the point where one mentally associates a character as a surrogate fo themselves, and that what is done to one is meant as a direct action against the other.

[Han Shot First]

The biggest concern I have is that when people say this, they typically only mean a specific type of injustice.

 

For instance, almost any thread that says they want more mature themes tends to ask for the same things: various isms, rape, torture, and so forth.  I once put forth that I think it'd be interesting if there was a situation where a male character undergoes the threat of rape (or even actual rape) in a particular situation, by an explicitly gay aggressor.  As such, if the character was a woman the situation would be avoided.

 

Not many were keen on it though, as they felt it'd just be obvious trope reversal and would seem forced.  It wasn't satisfying what they were claiming to want (depictions of rape), even though it seemed to hit on the various points that they put forth as far as I was concerned.

 

Hmmm. What exactly were they asking for? A graphic depiction of rape?

 

I ask only because both the DA and Mass Effect series have alluded to rape. In Mass Effect Jack was the victim of it, and there is also a male prisoner where you first recruit Jack who implies it happened to him. In one of the comics a couple Batarians also try to rape Liara. Jacob's loyalty mission also contains numerous references to it. In the DA series Leliana is a rape victim, and in DA:O it is implied that is what Vaughn was up to when he abducts elven women during the City Elf origin.

 

There was no lack of mention of it in either series, so I'm not sure exactly what those fans would be complaining about. 

 

In any case I'm glad there were no graphic depictions of it, nor is it necessary.