446 réponses à ce sujet

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Questioning lore errors is fine, but this thread is not doing that, this thread is being pedantic.

 

It is stated in game that the sexes are equally represented. I am pointing out that this isn't true.

 

How is that not a lore error?

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Just b/c there is not a high ratio of women when it comes to soldiers / military / templars doesn't mean that the game isn't egalitarian when it comes to the representation of men and women in DA, since there is a reason there generally ins't a lot of women in the army. You have to take note that the female body structure is weaker than the male counterpart. That is not to say that women can't do what men can when it comes to military, since it's perfectly possible they can and sometimes even better. But if you put it into a ratio, there will be more men that will be able to endure all the physical aspects that the military 'offers' than females.

And I don't see why this is really bothersome to others. DA has a vast amount of female characters with different roles in the world of Thedas, some that I find more impressive rather than being a mere generic soldier. Sure, it is nice if BW would have more female soldiers, I welcome it, but don't state that the game is lying or anything.

 

Again, my point is not that women should be equally represented, my point is that the game states that they are, and yet this isn't true.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I always thought of  the equal representation meaning that a woman could reach any position a man could within an organisation if they chose to(excluding Qunari of course), which is apparent in game 

• Meredith is one of the highest ranks a templar can be, 
• Ser Cauthrien serving directly under Loghain, 
• the numerous senior enchanters in the circle, 
• Fiona was elected as Grand Enchanter, 
• one of the most powerful positions in Thedas, the DIvine is restricted to females, 
• The Quanri operate off of a Triumvirate where up to two of the three leading positions for the Qunari can be female
• Orlais is considered one of the most powerful nations in Thedas and is currently ruled by Empress Celene
• "Traditionally, the Rivaini are a matriarchal society, and much of it's nation still subscribes to the belief that women are best suited to rule" from WOT
• Isabella proves that pirates will follow female captains
• The dalish follow keepers who can be male or female

So there is plenty of evidence IMO, that women are equally represented for the most part

 

 

 

and I would have to agree with this statement

 

Again, I'm not sure that's what 'represent' means.

 

To me, if the colours blue and red are 'equally represented' in a bag of coloured plastic balls, then that means that there are roughly equal numbers of red balls and blue balls.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

You are trolling aren't you? for your sake I hope so.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

You are trolling aren't you? for your sake I hope so.

No. Are you trolling me? Because you are just stating that I'm wrong without giving any reason.

 

Could you please try and justify your opinion instead of just resorting to 'eugh I disagree with you therefore you must be a troll'

[SurelyForth]

I see this thread as being...well, not necessary, but something that deserves consideration. I find it frustrating that BW has a habit of only having the resources to model one gender of [insert occupation/race/species] and that one gender is almost always male (almost because of strippers and desire demons). It's an ongoing problem they have of treating men as the default in almost everything, save a few very specific (and typically sexualized) instances. 

 

It gets especially frustrating in DA because there is no reason why they don't have the resources to model women in the game. I don't think any soldier/guard in the games wear armor that isn't available to the female PC, so it's just a matter of including more females in scenes where soldiers are around. 

[Chewin]

Again, my point is not that women should be equally represented, my point is that the game states that they are, and yet this isn't true.

Wasn't your statement about there not being a lot of females in the army a sign of unequal representation of women in DA? It's been awhile since I've played any of the games, but as far as I recall the world had an egalitarian system--in terms of humans that is.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Wasn't your statement about there not being a lot of females in the army a sign of unequal representation of women in DA? It's been awhile since I've played any of the games, but as far as I recall the world had an egalitarian system--in terms of humans that is.

 

My entire argument is based on the fact that it is stated that men and women are equally represented. Therefore, the fact that women are mostly underrepresented in the major organisations means that this isn't true.

 

You are correct: the world has an egalitarian system, and men and women are just as capable of reaching the highest positions.

 

But I'm not talking about whether they can, I'm talking about to what extent they do, and judging that against what lore we have been given on this subject.

[Grieving Natashina]

I know a troll thread and this isn't one.  

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I see this thread as being...well, not necessary, but something that deserves consideration. I find it frustrating that BW has a habit of only having the resources to model one gender of [insert occupation/race/species] and that one gender is almost always male (almost because of strippers and desire demons). It's an ongoing problem they have of treating men as the default in almost everything, save a few very specific (and typically sexualized) instances. 

 

It gets especially frustrating in DA because there is no reason why they don't have the resources to model women in the game. I don't think any soldier/guard in the games wear armor that isn't available to the female PC, so it's just a matter of including more females in scenes where soldiers are around. 

 

Well said.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well said.

I thought so too.  I'm cautious about adding many of my thoughts here, because I know that many times these threads end in flames.

[metatheurgist]

Oh, no. This thread just made me imagine a Broodfather.

[Chewin]

My entire argument is based on the fact that it is stated that men and women are equally represented. Therefore, the fact that women are mostly underrepresented in the major organisations means that this isn't true.
 
You are correct: the world has an egalitarian system, and men and women are just as capable of reaching the highest positions.
 
But I'm not talking about whether they can, I'm talking about to what extent they do, and judging that against what lore we have been given on this subject.

Apologies. I only saw the focus on military aspects in the OP and missed your notes on the greater whole.

Still, I wouldn't consider this a major problem or a flaw on DA's part. While indeed the male appearance ratio is higher than the female one in different roles, there are quite a roster of female character with prominent roles and aren't represented in a discriminating manner. And as I stated earlier, I'd be glad if there are more women in future installments, but it isn't what I would call a necessity.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Just checked the quote from the character creator, and it actually supports this point more:

 

'Men and women in Thedas are generally regarded as equals. Both genders are evenly represented in most organisations, noble houses and military forces'

 

Is there a way to edit the title of the thread? I feel that this would serve as a better title than the current one, as that makes me sound more demanding than requesting.

[Darth Krytie]

I agree that there should be more women in the armies we see and overall. Though, DA 2 was significantly better than DA1 if only because women were represented as a fair amount of mages and mercenaries and merchants...

 

We had women soldiers in Awakening, but they had that horrid, horrid boob-armour plate thing that looked like it could take out an eye.

 

So, yes. I think it's something that can be improved and should be represented in the next game. A more balanced field of soldiers. Especially as this will be a call to arms for most of Thedas dude to the magnitude of the event.

[Chewin]

I see this thread as being...well, not necessary, but something that deserves consideration. I find it frustrating that BW has a habit of only having the resources to model one gender of [insert occupation/race/species] and that one gender is almost always male (almost because of strippers and desire demons). It's an ongoing problem they have of treating men as the default in almost everything, save a few very specific (and typically sexualized) instances. 
 
It gets especially frustrating in DA because there is no reason why they don't have the resources to model women in the game. I don't think any soldier/guard in the games wear armor that isn't available to the female PC, so it's just a matter of including more females in scenes where soldiers are around.

I disagree. While it's true that that women are the more "selectable" choice when it has come to representing a wh*re, I recall quite a roster of regular / generic farmers, shopkeepers, nobles, and even certain soldiers in respective game. The male model is certainly higher than the female one, but BW does a better job than many other companies when it comes to females in games.

[Chewin]

Just checked the quote from the character creator, and it actually supports this point more:
 
'Men and women in Thedas are generally regarded as equals. Both genders are evenly represented in most organisations, noble houses and military forces'

Indeed, yet that doesn't have to mean that there should be an equal amount of male and female soldiers. It's only a statement that there is an equal representation on both genders when it comes to--in this case--military, meaning that both women are allowed to do and achieve what men can in the army. Doesn't necessarily mean women want to do it however.

[Grieving Natashina]

I disagree. While it's true that that women are the more "selectable" choice when it has come to representing a wh*re, I recall quite a roster of regular / generic farmers, shopkeepers, nobles, and even certain soldiers in respective game. The male model is certainly higher than the female one, but BW does a better job than many other companies when it comes to females in games.

I think the point that the OP is trying to make is while they are the best at this as far as AAA companies go, they have room for improvement.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I disagree. While it's true that that women are the more "selectable" choice when it has come to representing a wh*re, I recall quite a roster of regular / generic farmers, shopkeepers, nobles, and even certain soldiers in respective game. The male model is certainly higher than the female one, but BW does a better job than many other companies when it comes to females in games.

Absolutely right: Bioware does a fantastic job at representing females in games. Far better than most games (the walking dead, for instance, where there are half as many female characters as male ones for no reason, or even worse The Witcher  ).

 

However, that doesn't mean that they cannot get even more fantastic! 

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Indeed, yet that doesn't have to mean that there should be an equal amount of male and female soldiers. It's only a statement that there is an equal representation on both genders when it comes to--in this case--military, meaning that both women are allowed to do and achieve what men can in the army. Doesn't necessarily mean women want to do it however.

I don't think that 'represent' and 'regard' are quite as synonymous as you make them seem.

 

To re-use my bag analogy:

 

If I say that the colours red and blue are evenly represented in my bag of coloured balls, do you think that implies that there is a roughly equal number of them, or merely that the bag is just as capable of having blue balls as red balls?

[Grieving Natashina]

Absolutely right: Bioware does a fantastic job at representing females in games. Far better than most games (the walking dead, for intance, where there are half as many female characters as male ones for no reason, or even worse The Witcher  ).

 

However, that doesn't mean that they cannot get even more fantastic! 

Ugh, the Witcher.      

 

That's all I'm going to say about that.  PM me if you want to know my rant on that game.

[Chewin]

Certainly, improvements can be made, and is something I surely would welcome. Cause better is always... well better.

I don't think that 'represent' and 'regard' are quite as synonymous as you make them seem.
 
To re-use my bag analogy:
 
If I say that the colours red and blue are evenly represented in my bag of coloured balls, do you think that implies that there is a roughly equal number of them, or merely that the bag is just as capable of having blue balls as red balls?

That would depend on your wording. In this analogy I would assume you meant there is an equal number of balls in the bag. But that is a very different trend of thought. A more 'proper' analogy would be if I opened a club and stated that both genders are equally welcome to join it, but ends up having a lot more males than females. That doesn't make my club have an unequal representation, it's simply who wants to be there. Same goes for the army.

[O_OotherSide]

This is coming off as really nit picky to me. I remember fighting plenty of generic females in origins Plus we have Loghain's right hand, the Warden commander, the dawrf carta leader and meridith from DAII being much better than "generic". Do you want bioware to count out excatly how many humans combatants we fight and make sure it is an equal number?

 

The only place that is truly odd is Red Cliff, due to there being none. That however may be one of the few places that only lets men in the army. Most people playing Video games are males, hence 90% of game characters are male. Bioware seems to go out of its way to avoid that and its kinda' bugging me that you are nit picking such an insignificant detail.

[tmp7704]

have you ever been in a group that was 50/50 split, that did not have something to do with dating or sex?
 
it is beyond rare, hell last time I checked even the population in real life isn't actually a 50/50 split.

Groups that are 50/50 split and don't have something to do with dating or sex?

Yes, they're commonly found in places called schools. Typically one will be part of these between ages 6-18+ Afterwards the casual sexism starts to kick in more, but it's still not uncommon to find work places which have even representation of men and women.

On topic: the OP has a fair point. Hopefully the developers pay attention to it and do the settings they've invented proper representation that actually reflects what their world is supposed to be like.

[Zazzerka]

So it's purely a numbers thing for you, OP? Regardless of their position in society?

 

Visit the Denerim brothel.