446 réponses à ce sujet

[Andraste_Reborn]

Most people playing Video games are males, hence 90% of game characters are male. Bioware seems to go out of its way to avoid that and its kinda' bugging me that you are nit picking such an insignificant detail.

 

Do you have a reliable source for those statistics? BioWare do better at representing women in their games than any other major developer I can think of. That doesn't mean they couldn't do better - and anomalies like the Redcliffe situation are something they should avoid in future.

 

I'm inclined to disregard what the character creator says, since it's nor really borne out in game. If you're a female character then quite a few NPCs in DAO express surprise at you fighting well and joining the Grey Wardens. (And it's not just Sten.) There are female soldiers, guards and Templars in Thedas, but not in the same numbers as male soldiers, guards and Templars.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

For the last time copy and pasting generic soldiers is not a lore problem.

[TheLittleBird]

While everyone seems to be able to become almost anything within Thedas (well, there are exceptions ofcourse), that doesn't mean they WANT to. There's a pretty big difference here.

[Grieving Natashina]

Do you have a reliable source for those statistics? BioWare do better at representing women in their games than any other major developer I can think of. That doesn't mean they couldn't do better - and anomalies like the Redcliffe situation are something they should avoid in future.

 

I'm inclined to disregard what the character creator says, since it's nor really borne out in game. If you're a female character then quite a few NPCs in DAO express surprise at you fighting well and joining the Grey Wardens. (And it's not just Sten.) There are female soldiers, guards and Templars in Thedas, but not in the same numbers as male soldiers, guards and Templars.

Did that poster really just say that?  For what it's worth, Andraste, I agree with you.

 

Oh my gods, not that "mostly young men play video games, why "cater" to women, blah blah" line of narrow minded BS again. 

 

 

Oh if he wants to play that numbers game, we can play.     I've got sources about women playing games from credited sourced that has been mentioned at GDC for two years in a row.  They do the surveys every year and that guy is so utterly, hopelessly wrong.  Also, I'll be happy to send you the interview from one of the BW devs that states that women need more presentation in video games.

 

 I'll be happy to send you the links in PM, but when I hear someone saying that nonsense, I take it as my cue to exit.

[tmp7704]

Honestly, I would prefer bioware spends thier time and resources on other important parts of the game.

Faithful portrayal of the game world is quite important in my book. Especially one so easily achieved, as it doesn't exactly take more time to copy-paste 10 generic female soldiers and 10 generic male soldiers, compared to copy-pasting male soldier 20 times.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Did that poster really just say that?  For what it's worth, Andraste, I agree with you.

 

Oh my gods, not that "mostly young men play video games, why "cater" to women, blah blah" line of narrow minded BS again.

I'd say that it's like pushing a rock endlessly up a hill, but maybe cleaning the Augean stables is a better Greek myth reference ...

[Wulfram]

Faithful portrayal of the game world is quite important in my book. Especially one so easily achieved, as it doesn't exactly take more time to copy-paste 10 generic female soldiers and 10 generic male soldiers, compared to copy-pasting male soldier 20 times.

 

Memory might be an issue?  That usually seems to be why they send in the clones.

 

(Though I don't see why memory should only ever seem to result in no girls)

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

So it's purely a numbers thing for you, OP? Regardless of their position in society?

 

Visit the Denerim brothel.

Eh?

 

There are 6 female prostitutes and 6 male ones, aren't there?

 

Or is that the point you're trying to make? Sorry, I don't understand

[Lebanese Dude]

The reason is simple: segregation of lore and gameplay.

Lothering was a big village. However, the areas we visited was small with about 5 houses.
The same applies to female representation. Just because you don't see them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Even so, I considered the "represented" to have a qualitative inference rather than a quantitative one. Women are allowed to join almost all orders, and are capable of assuming leadership.
Last time I checked, it seemed more women were in charge in DA2 than men.

Also, I hold the belief that people like you are trying too hard to homogenize men and women. Generally speaking, men and women are still different from a biological, and consequentially a psychological, standpoint. Women do not WANT to be men. You assume that everyone has your same beliefs. You're just as different from most women, as men are to each other. If you want to join the army, Thedas lets you. This doesnt mean women should do that. If women are more likely to be housewives in Thedas, there's no shame in that. It still doesn't mean that they aren't capable of leading armies if thy wished to.

Lastly, I am loathe to see someone use examples from Origins to prove their point. It s clear that writers often mess up and include disrespectful depictions (outright sexism etc..) in their games. They have even admitted it, and Bioware has improved upon this with every iteration.
Dragon age 2 also has quantitative representation. Leaders were both men and women. Generic pedestrians were both men and women. Enemy units were both men and women (barring Qunari). All in a mostly equal ratio.

[tmp7704]

Memory might be an issue?  That usually seems to be why they send in the clones.

That can be true, but at least when it comes specifically to soldiers and such, these issues are minimized as models for both genders can easily use the same texture sets (and that's the bulk of memory taken, the meshes are way more lightweight) Plus, i'd expect it to be mainly an issue with the previous generation of consoles, and less of potential problem for the new title.

[Zazzerka]

Eh?

 

There are 6 female prostitutes and 6 male ones, aren't there?

 

Or is that the point you're trying to make? Sorry, I don't understand

 

Two pages ago, Mister Gutsy gave you a good list of influential women in Thedas. You dismissed it, based on your plastic ball analogy. So long as the plastic balls are there to make up the numbers, it doesn't matter who they are or what they've done, apparently.

[TheLittleBird]

snip

 

I second this full heartedly.

[tmp7704]

Also, I hold the belief that people like you are trying too hard to homogenize men and women. Generally speaking, men and women are still different from a biological, and consequentially a psychological, standpoint. Women do not WANT to be men. You assume that everyone has your same beliefs. You're just as different from most women, as men are to each other.

Do you recognize the irony that your belief relies on actually homogenizing men and women, by expecting both of them (and each individual within either gender) to hold the same stance, "I don't want to be like the other sex"?

[Wulfram]

That can be true, but at least when it comes specifically to soldiers and such, these issues are minimized as models for both genders can easily use the same texture sets (and that's the bulk of memory taken, the meshes are way more lightweight) Plus, i'd expect it to be mainly an issue with the previous generation of consoles, and less of potential problem for the new title.

 

The game is still coming out on the previous generation of consoles.  Though I guess they could make having more cosmetic variations in NPCs a One/4 feature.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

The reason is simple: segregation of lore and gameplay.

Lothering was a big village. However, the areas we visited was small with about 5 houses.
The same applies to female representation. Just because you don't see them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Even so, I considered the "represented" to have a qualitative inference rather than a quantitative one. Women are allowed to join almost all orders, and are capable of assuming leadership.
Last time I checked, it seemed more women were in charge in DA2 than men.

Also, I hold the belief that people like you are trying too hard to homogenize men and women. Generally speaking, men and women are still different from a biological, and consequentially a psychological, standpoint. Women do not WANT to be men. You assume that everyone has your same beliefs. You're just as different from most women, as men are to each other. If you want to join the army, Thedas lets you. This doesnt mean women should do that. If women are more likely to be housewives in Thedas, there's no shame in that. It still doesn't mean that they aren't capable of leading armies if thy wished to.

Lastly, I am loathe to see someone use examples from Origins to prove their point. It s clear that writers often mess up and include disrespectful depictions (outright sexism etc..) in their games. They have even admitted it, and Bioware has improved upon this with every iteration.
Dragon age 2 also has quantitative representation. Leaders were both men and women. Generic pedestrians were both men and women. Enemy units were both men and women (barring Qunari). All in a mostly equal ratio.

 

This is very true about DA2, but the thing is, from the screen of Inquisition I posted and the concept art, it looks like Bioware may revert back to DA:O presentation.

 

Also, the only way this argument will ever be settled is if Bioware state whether it is qualitative or quantitative, otherwise we are just going to go around in circles

 

Plus, are women mainly in power in DA2? I mean, there are about 50% females in charge or little gans IIRC, but in terms of big leadership roles we have:

 

Meredith

The revered mother (who has to be female anyway)

 

Compared to:

Arishok (who has to be male anyway)

Viscount

Orsino

Duke Prosper

And Alistair (as Anora does not appear if you chose her)

 

So it's true that in small organisations the presentation is about even, but not really in big ones.

 

Anyway, I'm done arguing about this because it has just got semantic. Until we know whether 'Evenly represented' means qualitatively or quantitatively, I don't think there's any use in continuing the debate.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Two pages ago, Mister Gutsy gave you a good list of influential women in Thedas. You dismissed it, based on your plastic ball analogy. So long as the plastic balls are there to make up the numbers, it doesn't matter who they are or what they've done, apparently.

 

I dismissed it for the ball analogy because we were working on separate definitions.

 

I NEVER said that women can't be powerful in Thedas. I NEVER said it doesn't matter what they do.

 

And I stand by dismissing it: thew fact that there are many influential women does not contradict my argument in any way, hence it is irrelevant.

 

The misunderstanding has been brought about by different definitions of 'Even representation', and so in our trying to reconcile the two definitions, we are disagreeing for no reason.

 

I agree with what you are saying, and would fully agree if that's what I think the phrase means, but I don't, and so discussing the semantics further is simply pointless.

[O_OotherSide]

Did that poster really just say that?  For what it's worth, Andraste, I agree with you.

 

Oh my gods, not that "mostly young men play video games, why "cater" to women, blah blah" line of narrow minded BS again. 

 

 

Oh if he wants to play that numbers game, we can play.     I've got sources about women playing games from credited sourced that has been mentioned at GDC for two years in a row.  They do the surveys every year and that guy is so utterly, hopelessly wrong.  Also, I'll be happy to send you the interview from one of the BW devs that states that women need more presentation in video games.

 

 I'll be happy to send you the links in PM, but when I hear someone saying that nonsense, I take it as my cue to exit.

Where did I say that there shouldn't be more women in the games? I said more men play video games and thats why there is a discrepancy. Bioware however, seems to go out of its way to avoid that. I like how you focused on something I didn't say rather than the all the higher ranked female warriors that are in the story and called me hoplessly wrong. I also just realized that both of kirkwalls Miltary forces are led by women. Even more humorous that I play as a female Shepard.

 

 

Please PM me the statictis though, I would like to get a better idea of the ratio of men to women.

[Zazzerka]

I dismissed it for the ball analogy because we were working on separate definitions.

 

I NEVER said that women can't be powerful in Thedas. I NEVER said it doesn't matter what they do.

 

Fair enough. I don't really like your definition, but that's the point of opinions, I suppose.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

'Men and women are evenly represented in most organisations, noble houses and military forces.' - The Dragon Age: Origins character creator.

 

 

I see it as an unfortunate holdover from games gone by, where the statement was there more to assure the player that their character won't be disadvantaged by their choice of gender rather than to be indicative of what the player will actually see in game.

I can't remember if that text was present in the DA2 character creator, but I hope it isn't in DAI. The game world should be able to show us these things...and if it fails to do so, then it can't have been all that accurate in the first place.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

 

hey, have you seen a male priest in Thedas (aside of Haven)?

 

Lothering.

[Corker]

While I don't much disagree with OP's original point, there are female faceless mook templars in DA2:



You can tell by the way they stand with their hips jutting out and their backs arched suggestively.

[Darth Krytie]

While I don't much disagree with OP's original point, there are female faceless mook templars in DA2:



You can tell by the way they stand with their hips jutting out and their backs arched suggestively.

 

Yep, thems are ladyfolks...we do stand that way...it's bad for the spine.

[drake heath]

Lothering.

I think it was said that men in the Chantry can't be anything higher than a basic monk, like they can't be a preacher, a bishop, etc., but they can be a scribe or a cleric.

 

Several of the books were written by Brothers of the Chantry, and there's Brother Genitivi, and that Dwarf priest.

Men are in the Chantry, just not in the high ranks, a lot like women in the Catholic Church.