446 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

I don't want generic soldiers of any gender or race in my Inquisition.

 

First thing I am going to do once I am put in charge of the Inquisitorial forces is going to customize their armors; hopefully we can have several slots for our customized settings so that our forces don't all have the exact same outfit or armor. Also, I am going to replace the all human soldiers with a variety of elven, dwarven, qunari-en(?); and hopefully some exotic fantasy creatures like Golems, Sylvans, etc.

 

Nothing about my soldiers is going to be generic if I can help it.

[Quill74Pen]

Hmm. I've read most, if not all, of the Dragon Age lore and, in doing sound, have come to the conclusion that female Grey Wardens aren't as *uncommon* as one would think.

 

For example, the Commander of the Grey in Ferelden prior to the group's exile was a woman. When the order was permitted to return to Ferelden centuries later, its first Commander of the Grey was a woman. In the DA2 expansion "Awakening," the leader of the rebel band of Grey Wardens was, yep, a woman. There are other examples, too.

 

Outside of the games, the books have featured female Grey Wardens. For example, Alistair's possible elven mother was a Grey Warden.

[tmp7704]

Equally represented doesn't mean there needs to be a 50/50 split in statistics.   Represented means that there simply is no "official" bias in the numbers.   However, certain careers are far more attractive to different genders.    Take our schools, for instance.   There is no law or policy that denies access to men to teach K-12, yet 80% of all K-12 teachers are female.     Go to any early education classes at a college and you MIGHT see 1 or 2 guys in the class.

Lack of official policy doesn't mean no policy whatsoever, though -- there's lot of preconceptions and/or customs based peer pressure in our society which effectively encourages each gender to take some professions and avoid others, because "that's what men/women do/don't do". When it takes exceptional individuals willing to go against the crowd and to put up with stigma and outright harassment just to have certain profession, it should be no wonder there's some fields heavily skewed towards one gender or the other. And it can be questioned just how much of that is an actual "gender preference", or if such thing even exists.

If i understand it right this is something Thedas societies (other than qunari ofc) lack, thus you could reasonably expect the gender split in many professions much closer to even, than what we observe in our own world.

[Mes]

I can't help but see this thread as being pointless and needless pedantic.

 

I've got a nice trick for that - it's called not commenting on a thread you deem pointless. I know... I'm a genius.

 

I see this thread as being...well, not necessary, but something that deserves consideration. I find it frustrating that BW has a habit of only having the resources to model one gender of [insert occupation/race/species] and that one gender is almost always male (almost because of strippers and desire demons). It's an ongoing problem they have of treating men as the default in almost everything, save a few very specific (and typically sexualized) instances. 

 

It gets especially frustrating in DA because there is no reason why they don't have the resources to model women in the game. I don't think any soldier/guard in the games wear armor that isn't available to the female PC, so it's just a matter of including more females in scenes where soldiers are around. 

 

Yeah I just am sick of this to be honest. The default is always, always male, and women are lucky to get thrown a bone IF there's enough "resources" left over after all the males are shiny and pretty. Just for once I'd like to see it done the opposite way around - spend all the primary resources on female models, and then with whatever scraps are left over create the male models. Just to see how ridiculous and pretty darn sexist the resources argument is.

 

 And as I stated earlier, I'd be glad if there are more women in future installments, but it isn't what I would call a necessity.

 

It's a necessity for some people, still. I think whenever we talk about men versus women on the forums here, way more people are quick to jump in and say that the discussion is a waste of time and/or is not necessary rather than actually provide some input. 

 

Most people playing Video games are males, hence 90% of game characters are male. 

 

I think most of us have outgrown this argument, as we realize it's not actually as true as we once believed. The split seems to be way closer to 50/50 than "most are males" implies. The video game industry is huge, which means that even if the split is closer to 40/60 (which I think is more accurate), 40% is a heck of a lot of people with money to spend. And not to offend anyone with a potential stereotype, but seems to me that women are much more likely to spend their money not only on the game itself but on related merchandise as well because when we like something, we really like it. It is in absolutely everyone's best interest for video games to cater to both men and women more equally. 

 

 Women do not WANT to be men. You assume that everyone has your same beliefs. You're just as different from most women, as men are to each other. If you want to join the army, Thedas lets you. This doesnt mean women should do that. If women are more likely to be housewives in Thedas, there's no shame in that. It still doesn't mean that they aren't capable of leading armies if thy wished to.
 

 

"The army" is not synonymous with being a man. If a woman joins the army, she joins it because she wants to and not because she wants to "be a man." A man who stays home with the kids does so because he wants to, not because he wants to me a woman or a "housewife."

 

So I'm not sure what you mean when you say that women do not want to be men in terms of the topic?

[UC SIM]

Even with the comment at the start of the DA:O it does make a fumble of sense;

Woman have other priorities compared to men - if they have children they are likely to be looking after them?

Realistically there is another reason which is often sited to why there are not more woman in todays military, Womans hips are not made for long distance travel - they ache and become a problem after distances of 20 mi. force march.

 

The reasons above are true in our world so might as well be true in DA.

 

However I don't personally want generic woman everywhere - I like the fact that most woman who you do encounter in DA have substance.

[tmp7704]

Woman have other priorities compared to men - if they have children they are likely to be looking after them?

It may be wrong thread for flower and bees talk, but having children is not something that's limited to women. Consequently, women aren't the only people who are likely to be looking after them, and their priorities in this regard aren't really different from these of men. Or at least shouldn't be.

[Mes]

Realistically there is another reason which is often sited to why there are not more woman in todays military, Womans hips are not made for long distance travel - they ache and become a problem after distances of 20 mi. force march.

 

The reasons above are true in our world so might as well be true in DA.

 

However I don't personally want generic woman everywhere - I like the fact that most woman who you do encounter in DA have substance.

 

Do you have a link to the women's hips thing? Would be an interesting read. I've just tried googling but have only come up with army uniform redesigns.

 

Anyway I don't agree with the "true in our world hence true in video game world" argument. Because at this point we're just sort of picking and choosing, and the argument ends up being more an excuse than a reason. There's no magic in our world, so shouldn't there be no magic in the game? That sort of thing.

 

I too like encountering characters (men and women) of substance, but yes like the OP I would just like to see more women in the background too.

[Topsider]

 

"The army" is not synonymous with being a man. If a woman joins the army, she joins it because she wants to and not because she wants to "be a man." A man who stays home with the kids does so because he wants to, not because he wants to me a woman or a "housewife."

 

 

 

Are you talking about the "real world" here? 

 

Joining the army in wartime means there's a good chance you will die. This can't be compared to staying home with the kids.

 

How many people would support women being in the army if thousands were coming home in body bags?

[Mes]

Are you talking about the "real world" here? 

 

Joining the army in wartime means there's a good chance you will die. This can't be compared to staying home with the kids.

 

How many people would support women being in the army if thousands were coming home in body bags?

 

Hmm? I was pointing out that it's weird to suggest "you want to be a man" if you do activity x and imply that "you want to be a woman" if you do activity y. As far as I understand it, the only women who want to be men are those who feel that they have been born into the wrong body, but that's a whole different topic.

 

Yes I would support women in armies in any circumstances. 

[tmp7704]

How many people would support women being in the army if thousands were coming home in body bags?

If the recent conflicts (from Vietnam onwards) are anything to go by, people don't support thousands of men coming home in body bags, either.

[Han Shot First]

It may be wrong thread for flower and bees talk, but having children is not something that's limited to women. Consequently, women aren't the only people who are likely to be looking after them, and their priorities in this regard aren't really different from these of men. Or at least shouldn't be.

 

Men don't bear children and can't nurse. I think it is true to a certain extent that women would have priorities within the family unit that might result in less women serving in armies by choice even if gender equality exists in Thedas. Also keep in mind that the prime age for a soldier is also the time frame when its best to have children. Assuming Thedas has anything like standing armies, a woman soldier might have to choose between the army and being a mother. 

[Darth Krytie]

Are you talking about the "real world" here? 

 

Joining the army in wartime means there's a good chance you will die. This can't be compared to staying home with the kids.

 

How many people would support women being in the army if thousands were coming home in body bags?

 

Oh, yes...if there's anything this world truly abhors...it's violence against women.

[Peer of the Empire]

Military jobs should devolve to men.  All is well

 

Regarding the OP talk about population sex ratios, if there are too many men then it can be a way to employ the excess.  There may be too few men if the wars engaged in are particularly bloody, in which case the way would be open for women to fill many of the roles they are as suited for.

 

Even in the most mobilized societies on a total war footing currently in a life and death struggle, at most 20% of men are in the military, though this figure includes the elderly and young who naturally are not engaged.

 

In a tribal setting it could be that 100% of able bodied males are fighters, and therein lies a clue

[Topsider]

If the recent conflicts (from Vietnam onwards) are anything to go by, people don't support thousands of men coming home in body bags, either.

 

Good point.

 

But men are expected to fight (and die) in wars.

 

I suspect a real war would shock people out of their complacency. The type of war where thousands die in a single day.

[Topsider]

Oh, yes...if there's anything this world truly abhors...it's violence against women.

 

The enemy doesn't care who he (or she) is shooting at, so long as you die.

[Darth Krytie]

The enemy doesn't care who he (or she) is shooting at, so long as you die.

 

I was being sarcastic in reference to you claiming the world didn't want to see women coming home in bodybags. When it's very clear that women are killed worldwide for many reasons all the time.

 

I'm well aware that when you're at war, making the other side dead was the point.

[thats1evildude]

This thread is going to some really bizarre places. 

 

The OP asked for more generic female soldiers. Several posters pointed out that there are plenty of generic female soldiers in both games, even if it's not a perfect 50/50 split. I don't really know what else needs to be said.

[Amarettibiskits]

Why are people talking about realism of women soldiers in a game where women turn into dragons? 

[Topsider]

I was being sarcastic in reference to you claiming the world didn't want to see women coming home in bodybags. When it's very clear that women are killed worldwide for many reasons all the time.

 

I'm well aware that when you're at war, making the other side dead was the point.

 

Men and women are killed all the time for any number of reasons... but war leads to mass casualties. Far more shocking than isolated murders in the news.

 

Modern war is like a video game to most people.

[ShawDawg94]

This isn't even remotely a lore issue. It's about resources. Bioware decides to use one character model for generic soldiers. That one model is male for obvious reasons. It only becomes an issue when people sit around and nitpick every small detail. Characters of importance (ones that actually have names) are much more evenly represented.

[Topsider]

Why are people talking about realism of women soldiers in a game where women turn into dragons? 

 

Just one of those threads that goes from fantasy to comparisons with the real world.

[Mes]

This isn't even remotely a lore issue. It's about resources. Bioware decides to use one character model for generic soldiers. That one model is male for obvious reasons.

 

Those gosh darned "resources"...

 

What are the obvious reasons that the one model is always male?

[CuriousArtemis]

Those gosh darned "resources"...

 

What are the obvious reasons that the one model is always male?

 

You don't want that question answered

 

OP, I agree with your sentiments 100% (also GGMU, etc. etc.), but I have to say that DA2 did a really great job of rectifying DA:O's poor effort. For every generic male soldier/bandit/templar model there was a corresponding female model. I know this because I used to mod my xbox saves. And I've played the game 10+ times (maybe 20+) and I know those female models do show up quite often, maybe even equally as often.

 

The all-male soldiers in the DA:I concept art / screen shots are troubling, but I think that relates to Mes' question about: why is the male model always first? I'm not going to mention the p-word. (It's not penis, you pervs!) But, well, we know the answer. It is what it is. Keep pushing, gently but persistently, and things will change.

 

ALSO, HOWEVER -- I could have sworn that while watching the PAX demo I heard a female soldier hail the inquisitor. 

[ShawDawg94]

Those gosh darned "resources"...

 

What are the obvious reasons that the one model is always male?

 

If you only use one character model and that model was female, wouldn't that look a little odd? Why would an entire group of templars or an army of wardens be female? Is it an only woman group? Same thing could be brought up about a group of all males, but males are often considered the default.

[CuriousArtemis]

If you only use one character model and that model was female, wouldn't that look a little odd? Why would an entire group of templars or an army of wardens be female? Is it an only woman group? Same thing could be brought up about a group of all males, but males are often considered the default.

 

Good point, but having only one model done should qualify as incomplete, meaning, the product is not ready to be shown.