18 réponses à ce sujet

[TurretSyndrome]

In Origins we always had these different merchants who you can help and lower prices, or annoy them enough and increase prices. One thing I wished that was there was a way to identify the markup of each item being sold, either by the merchant or the player.

 

A merchant says we got a discount but there was no way to know how much the price of items got reduced from the original selling price. So what I'm asking for are more details of the items being sold, rather than just the selling price, so that it won't result in unsuspecting players like me to not take advantage of unlocked merchants in different areas.

 

Example:

 

The sword of whoknowswhatit'lldo   16 G

Original cost: 12 G

Markup: 4 G

Discount: - 5%(changes based on relationship with merchant)

 

I think those three will be enough. The markup detail can be used to predict how far one can reduce the price. It may not be needed at all however, and perhaps can be replaced by a an inflation system or something, I don't know. Now I'm not at all familiar with the subject so do excuse me for making mistakes or not adding anything more. If you are familiar with it and have ideas on how to improve the system in the game, post away. 

[Fast Jimmy]

I like it. Then again, I am a fan of any and all economic features to be incorporated in a game.

[The Hierophant]

What about the inclusion of bartering? E.g. you trading unneeded armor for a more compatible set and weaponry, or lyrium potions for health poultices.

[TurretSyndrome]

We were never able to barter in either of the games so I assumed that it doesn't happen much in DA universe. All we were able to do was sell what wasn't needed and use the gold to buy something else, but never a direct trade.

[The Hierophant]

True.

I figured it's probable inclusion could be a plus to the world building, and allow the player to roleplay a frugal money smart character, while i'm tired of feeling like i've been ripped off.

[JimboGee]

This is actually a good idea. I'd also like them to have more then one merchant per area. I like to shop around for a bargain

[Realmzmaster]

Why would any merchant tell the character the original cost of the item and also tell the character the merchant's markup? The point of a merchant offering a discount could simply for salesmenship. The character may well be getting or actually not getting a discount.

 

I would rather the character have a Mercantile skill that allows the character to ascertain a reasonable cost of the item. The higher the skill the closer the character is to the actual cost.  

 

For example, Warrior discount (let's say 25% I am being generous) with proof of guild affiliation  The warrior picks the items wanted at list price goes to the counter and pays for the item produces proof of guild membership. The 25% discount should be applied. Let's say the merchant does not apply the discount and quotes the total for the list prices. That can lead to an interesting dialog exchange.

 

Warrior: I do believe you have overcharge me. Did you not apply the discount?

 

Merchants response could be cased on the mercantile skill of the character. If the skill is too low the merchant will respond.

 

Merchant: No serah, my figures are accurate. You may decline the purchase if you so choose.

 

If the skill is high enough. The merchant may respond.

 

Merchant:  My mistake serah, here is the actual amount with discount.

 

If the character has a very high mercantile skill the merchant may respond.

 

Merchant: A thousand pardons serah for your trouble I will give you an additional discount. Here is the new total.

 

Haggling would be an idea. Haggling would be based on a Mercantile skill. The higher the skill the better price that can be haggled to the items actual cost. The merchant will not haggle below cost.

[Fast Jimmy]

Why would any merchant tell the character the original cost of the item and also tell the character the merchant's markup? The point of a merchant offering a discount could simply for salesmenship. The character may well be getting or actually not getting a discount.

I would rather the character have a Mercantile skill that allows the character to ascertain a reasonable cost of the item. The higher the skill the closer the character is to the actual cost.

For example, Warrior discount (let's say 25% I am being generous) with proof of guild affiliation The warrior picks the items wanted at list price goes to the counter and pays for the item produces proof of guild membership. The 25% discount should be applied. Let's say the merchant does not apply the discount and quotes the total for the list prices. That can lead to an interesting dialog exchange.

Warrior: I do believe you have overcharge me. Did you not apply the discount?

Merchants response could be cased on the mercantile skill of the character. If the skill is too low the merchant will respond.

Merchant: No serah, my figures are accurate. You may decline the purchase if you so choose.

If the skill is high enough. The merchant may respond.

Merchant: My mistake serah, here is the actual amount with discount.

If the character has a very high mercantile skill the merchant may respond.

Merchant: A thousand pardons serah for your trouble I will give you an additional discount. Here is the new total.

Haggling would be an idea. Haggling would be based on a Mercantile skill. The higher the skill the better price that can be haggled to the items actual cost. The merchant will not haggle below cost.

This actually reminds me of the Uncharted Waters series in a way. There, when you purchase goods, the merchant offers a price and asks if you accept. Either your accountant, first mate or yourself would respond (whoever had the highest combination of Haggling skill and/or Accounting ability), commenting on if the price was acceptable or not. Depending on the skill, the mate would say it was acceptable or not (the mate might say a price that was too high was acceptable if their skill wasn't high enough, so you needed to make sure the person you placed in charge of this was qualified). You could then refuse the merchant's suggested price and offer one of your own.

The amount you could offer below the initial amount would depend on the skill, but if you low balled too much, the merchant would refuse to haggle and remain at the original price, refusing to discuss.


It was an interesting system, one that never overtly told you what the right or wrong price was, but made the process very skill based and intuitive at the same time.

I miss those Uncharted games. I'd love a sequel or reboot.

[TurretSyndrome]

@Realmzmaster  

 

I get what you're saying but I'm talking in terms of game mechanics. We will not be asking the merchant anything besides asking for a discount and other things. The items in DA games always had "actual prices" which were then affected by markups and discounts. In DA:O and DA 2, the items would only have the selling price which forces the player to write down the costs of each item or memorize them if they wish to compare them. So all I my idea really does is make whatever discounts we get to appear on an item, nothing will change besides more information appearing on the item to make the player's life easy when comparing prices.

 

What you suggest is a haggling skill system which can make things realistic but that is what I am going for here in this thread.

[Realmzmaster]

@Realmzmaster  

 

I get what you're saying but I'm talking in terms of game mechanics. We will not be asking the merchant anything besides asking for a discount and other things. The items in DA games always had "actual prices" which were then affected by markups and discounts. In DA:O and DA 2, the items would only have the selling price which forces the player to write down the costs of each item or memorize them if they wish to compare them. So all I my idea really does is make whatever discounts we get to appear on an item, nothing will change besides more information appearing on the item to make the player's life easy when comparing prices.

 

What you suggest is a haggling skill system which can make things realistic but that is what I am going for here in this thread.

 

You are asking for information your character would not know. No more than you would know walking into a store. You will see the list price of the item. You would have no knowledge of the cost or markup. So basically what you want is metagame information which  does not have to be shown in game.

 

Many crpgs do that by having the character compare prices from different cities or locals. 

[TurretSyndrome]

No, in DA, an item always has a set value which we are aware of. Just by inspecting the item in our inventory we get the actual value of the item, it is already in the game. That value changes when you open a merchant's inventory. The value of the items in your inventory change based on the markdown, and the items in the merchant's inventory, their values change because of markup and discount. I'm just asking for the markup, markdown and discount be clearly visible on the item's description itself. 

 

So yes, the moment we buy something, our characters will always know the true value of an item, as it has always been that way.

[Realmzmaster]

No, in DA, an item always has a set value which we are aware of. Just by inspecting the item in our inventory we get the actual value of the item, it is already in the game. That value changes when you open a merchant's inventory. The value of the items in your inventory change based on the markdown, and the items in the merchant's inventory, their values change because of markup and discount. I'm just asking for the markup, markdown and discount be clearly visible on the item's description itself. 

 

So yes, the moment we buy something, our characters will always know the true value of an item, as it has always been that way.

 

I do not believe you are using the term markdown properly.

 

Markdown means the amount by which a price is reduced to encourage buying. The merchant may markdown the list price of an item. For example a suit of leather armor's  list price is 100 gp and merchant bys the same armor at 50 gp,  The merchant marks down the price of the leather armor to 60 gp to encourage buying (could be due to overstock of leather armor). The merchant still buys the item from the character at 50 gp. The buy price has not changed only the selling price.

 

The markdown is not the buying price.  When the character goes to the merchant what the character sees in his/her inventory is the buying price of the merchant which can differ from merchant to merchant.

[TurretSyndrome]

By markdown, I was referring to the reduction of the price of an item in the players inventory when visiting the merchant. It basically means a "reduction in price", so I thought it fits.

[Aimi]

I like it. Then again, I am a fan of any and all economic features to be incorporated in a game.

Highly monetized medieval economies ruin my immersion.

[Realmzmaster]

By markdown, I was referring to the reduction of the price of an item in the players inventory when visiting the merchant. It basically means a "reduction in price", so I thought it fits.

The price in the player's inventory is the buy price for the item that is not what markdown means.  Markdown and markup refer to the selling price not the buying price.

[TurretSyndrome]

It refers to the selling price of the item in the player's inventory. If a lesser health poultice is 5 B and it's in the player's inventory, that is the price the player can sell the item for, to the merchant. So by markdown, I was referring to the reduced price of the item that is in the player inventory. 

[Realmzmaster]

It refers to the selling price of the item in the player's inventory. If a lesser health poultice is 5 B and it's in the player's inventory, that is the price the player can sell the item for, to the merchant. So by markdown, I was referring to the reduced price of the item that is in the player inventory. 

 

As I said you are referring to the price at which the merchant will buy the item. The character does not have a sell price. If the character could haggle with the merchant about the buying price that would be different. The system does not allow that so the character can only sell the item at the price the merchant is willing to pay which is the buy price. When the character goes into the store all the items in his/her inventory is lited at the merchants buy price. If the game allows merchants to buy at different amounts then the chracter has the ability to shop for the best buy price.

[smoke and mirrors]

How about the more you sell to a merchant the closer the price between your inventory and his / her  inventory  becomes . A customer loyality program

[TurretSyndrome]

As I said you are referring to the price at which the merchant will buy the item. The character does not have a sell price. If the character could haggle with the merchant about the buying price that would be different. The system does not allow that so the character can only sell the item at the price the merchant is willing to pay which is the buy price. When the character goes into the store all the items in his/her inventory is lited at the merchants buy price. If the game allows merchants to buy at different amounts then the chracter has the ability to shop for the best buy price.

 

You're right about the merchant's buy price, it's constant at 25% of the actual value of the item. Once the item is sold and the merchant's tab is closed however, it's price will be multiplied by the merchant's sell price. The only thing that changes between merchants is the sell price(for example Bodahn's stuff apparently is the costliest, that bastard).

 

Still, it doesn't make my idea for allowing the details of the price change on the item moot however, since the player could already see the actual value of the item and calculate the difference by themselves. Detailing it next to the item just removes the calculation part.