2138 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

I never saw Cullen expressing interest in anyone sexually, and I seriously don't need another gay storyline filled with doubt and angst. If there is to be an internal struggle I'd rather it be based on my character's actions or race. I don't need anymore coming out stories or gays as victims of prejudice or disease. Don't make sexuality the issue.

I'd also like romance established early in the game instead of right before the final scene when the lover offers comfort.

 

Cullen creeps on the female mage Warden in DA:O. Some people liked that. It's where the Cullen for a romance push started way back in DA:O. 

[KaiserShep]

What does Cullen say?

[Tielis]

In the future, all characters will have a straight characterization, a bi characterization, and a gay characterization.  Trans could be modified from these, I think.

 

Anyhow, with all these characterizations in place, one simply has to set the desired options before they start the game.  Imagine the playthrough possibilities!

 

I can dream, can't I?  

[daveliam]

In the future, all characters will have a straight characterization, a bi characterization, and a gay characterization.  Trans could be modified from these, I think.

 

Anyhow, with all these characterizations in place, one simply has to set the desired options before they start the game.  Imagine the playthrough possibilities!

 

I can dream, can't I?  

 

I actually don't really like this idea, to be honest.  I like an all bisexual approach because the characters are all romanceable to every PC and still have clearly defined sexualities.  Conversely, I like a variety of sexualities, provided that everyone gets more than one option and the distribution is roughly even across gender/sexuality.  I don't like the idea of a character being able to have their sexuality changed by the PC.  I think that it allows people to simply dismiss all gay, bisexual, and transgendered characters from existence, which is troubling to me.  It also has somewhat.....icky (for lack of a better word) implications about how easy it is for people to "change" their sexuality at whim, which is incorrect and often used as a counter-inclusive argument.

[Tielis]

I actually don't really like this idea, to be honest.  I like an all bisexual approach because the characters are all romanceable to every PC and still have clearly defined sexualities.  Conversely, I like a variety of sexualities, provided that everyone gets more than one option and the distribution is roughly even across gender/sexuality.  I don't like the idea of a character being able to have their sexuality changed by the PC.  I think that it allows people to simply dismiss all gay, bisexual, and transgendered characters from existence, which is troubling to me.  It also has somewhat.....icky (for lack of a better word) implications about how easy it is for people to "change" their sexuality at whim, which is incorrect and often used as a counter-inclusive argument.

 

I think what you, and most people forget is that my game bears no relation whatsoever to yours, and vice versa.  Neither is "right".  Choices are always good, aren't they?

 

And when I mean full characterization, I mean full characterization.  Like, Fenris with the bi characterization would act like he's always been bi, and the Fenris with the gay characterization will act like he's always been gay, and so on.  So whatever you choose for any playthrough would be "real".

[daveliam]

I think what you, and most people forget is that my game bears no relation whatsoever to yours, and vice versa.  Neither is "right".  Choices are always good, aren't they?

 

And when I mean full characterization, I mean full characterization.  Like, Fenris with the bi characterization would act like he's always been bi, and the Fenris with the gay characterization will act like he's always been gay, and so on.  So whatever you choose for any playthrough would be "real".

 

Right, but it doesn't change the fact that it would allow people to make all of the romanceable characters straight and since that's were the vast majority of the LGBT representation lives, it would also allow people to virtually scrub almost all of the LGBT representation from the game.  I'm just not down with that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They should stick with the sexually ambiguous concept like they did with Fenris and Merrill in DA2 imo.

[Tielis]

Right, but it doesn't change the fact that it would allow people to make all of the romanceable characters straight and since that's were the vast majority of the LGBT representation lives, it would also allow people to virtually scrub almost all of the LGBT representation from the game.  I'm just not down with that.

 

Newsflash:  Some people are bigots, but not all.

[Lady Nuggins]

Newsflash:  Some people are bigots, but not all.

 

Well, no, but it's not just an issue of individual bigots, is it?  Representation doesn't just mean that minorities get to see themselves on the screen, although that is a major part of it.  Representation also means that the majority engages with media that includes people unlike them.  It's not really representation if the majority can pretend it doesn't exist at all. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Choices are always good, aren't they?

 

I actually find the idea of giving someone the idea of choosing to make an NPC straight when they otherwise would be gay very, very uncomfortable.

[DaySeeker]

Unless a game is going for the "anything goes if you're wearing the right necklace" sexuality of Skyrim where no one's sexuality is limited or defined, I would like everyone's LI's sexuality defined.  If it is shown in the world that any character has a singular proclivity and that proclivity is named then it seems that ambiguity is hiding.  By only hinting that a character might be LGBT, or revealng only when the PC says it's OK the game attaches shame to the desigination, ESPECIALLY if there are characters screaming that they are straight through various declarations or behavior.

 

I respect the DA team and Bioware for being inclusive, much more inclusive than most gaming companies, but by saying everyone's sexuality is muddy really just puts characters in closet and implies that their sexuality is unimportant at best, shameful at worst.

[Altima Darkspells]

What does Cullen say?

He was the standard stuttering kinda shy BioWare type.

Then he went totally insane and mass-murderee because of events at the tower.

He got better in DA2. Of course, only in Kirkwall could that sort of crazy can be downright moderate compared to the rest of the Templar.

[Mockingword]

Newsflash:  Some people are bigots, but not all.

Not all people are bigots, but all people who would seek to erase LGBT representation from a video game are bigots.

[Mockingword]

Unless a game is going for the "anything goes if you're wearing the right necklace" sexuality of Skyrim where no one's sexuality is limited or defined, I would like everyone's LI's sexuality defined.  If it is shown in the world that any character has a singular proclivity and that proclivity is named then it seems that ambiguity is hiding.  By only hinting that a character might be LGBT, or revealng only when the PC says it's OK the game attaches shame to the desigination, ESPECIALLY if there are characters screaming that they are straight through various declarations or behavior.

 

I respect the DA team and Bioware for being inclusive, much more inclusive than most gaming companies, but by saying everyone's sexuality is muddy really just puts characters in closet and implies that their sexuality is unimportant at best, shameful at worst.

So you're okay with the erasure of people whose sexuality is ambiguous?

[JadePrince]

Well, no, but it's not just an issue of individual bigots, is it?  Representation doesn't just mean that minorities get to see themselves on the screen, although that is a major part of it.  Representation also means that the majority engages with media that includes people unlike them.  It's not really representation if the majority can pretend it doesn't exist at all. 

 

I wish i could like this quote a hundred more times. Representation is important for the folks being represented, but it's also EXTREMELY important to put underrepresent characters in media where the mainstream, non-minorities will see them. It's been shown over and over again that the more visible LGBT characters are in media, the more popular opinion about real-life LGBT people is swayed toward the positive and progressive. 

 

If h*mo-uncomfortable (yes, I just made up that word) folks have the option to avoid all mentions of queerness in the game, then they will probably do that, and then they won't be exposed to the important, positive idea that LGBT people are 'normal', not dangerous aberrations.

 

I'm not saying all games need to take up the responsibility of 'changing hearts and minds', but if they have the opportunity (and they're already writing in the content anyway), well, I just think it couldn't hurt.

[AlanC9]

So you're okay with the erasure of people whose sexuality is ambiguous?

I believe he meant that characters with ambiguous sexuality should flaunt that ambiguity. Though I'm not completely clear on how to go about that.

[Kage]

While i like straight and gay more then player sexual,

 

I also like more gay or bi or straight characters. Because that way it adds to their personality.

Leliana for example was far more interesting in that aspect than Merril. She was bi and it fit her, it was in her personality, her character's design, how it was written.

 

In DA2 the romances were not natural at all. It was like the romance was totally out of place in some of them, it just did not fit at all.

I think they should have changed the dialogue more at least. Maybe a totally hetero-looking character should have resisted a little, doubted, and after some time and more flirting accepted. That way I would have bought it...

 

But again, I think it was just a matter of development time.

 

In DAI we have confirmation that there will be gay, bi and hetero characters, which is nice. I really like that, and even if there is less possibilities for us to romance whoever we want, the romances will feel more natural and better written IMO.

[Kage]

Well, no, but it's not just an issue of individual bigots, is it?  Representation doesn't just mean that minorities get to see themselves on the screen, although that is a major part of it.  Representation also means that the majority engages with media that includes people unlike them.  It's not really representation if the majority can pretend it doesn't exist at all. 

 

Oh wow, such a nice post. Well said!

 

It was a very nice surprise for me to see the gay man of Mass Effect 3 (cant remember his name, NPC gay super muscled guy). You get the hint that he is gay, and I was like "Not in a million years mate", although it was a nice surprice for me to see that representation as you say.

Racism and "homophobia" (dont know the word and too lazy to look it up) comes from ignorance and isolation. Heck, any form of intolerance comes from there.

 

Every minority in our societies will end up being truly accepted, but there are actions that can accelerate the process.

[mikeymoonshine]

I think what you, and most people forget is that my game bears no relation whatsoever to yours, and vice versa.  Neither is "right".  Choices are always good, aren't they?

 

And when I mean full characterization, I mean full characterization.  Like, Fenris with the bi characterization would act like he's always been bi, and the Fenris with the gay characterization will act like he's always been gay, and so on.  So whatever you choose for any playthrough would be "real".

 

I don't like the idea of being able to change a huge part of a characters personality on a whim, the whole "full characterization" part would make it worse in my opinion. 

 

Bioware games are character driven, the story is very much about the characters and they are their own people. Sure, our players choices can effect them but we don't control them or define who they are and I wouldn't want to do that. 

 

I guess that's part of the reason allot of people hated the idea of playersexuality. 

[andar91]

Well, no, but it's not just an issue of individual bigots, is it?  Representation doesn't just mean that minorities get to see themselves on the screen, although that is a major part of it.  Representation also means that the majority engages with media that includes people unlike them.  It's not really representation if the majority can pretend it doesn't exist at all. 

This, a hundred times over. I don't think anyone should be compelled to take part in a same-sex romance or a straight romance, but it's important that the existence of such characters be explicit in the game. It's far too easy for the rectum people (thank you for that term Matt Rhodes) to sweep away what they don't like as it is (like mods to make Isabella white or to make gay characters straight). All players should be exposed to it, at least a little, in the course of the media. If only the members of the actual group are seeing it, then what you're actually getting is a 'separate and not equal' situation. They don't like it? I don't care, they're rectum people, especially considering all of the media that already exists that panders to the privileged like me (I'm a white, gay man).

[lane]

I never saw Cullen expressing interest in anyone sexually, and I seriously don't need another gay storyline filled with doubt and angst. If there is to be an internal struggle I'd rather it be based on my character's actions or race. I don't need anymore coming out stories or gays as victims of prejudice or disease. Don't make sexuality the issue.

I'd also like romance established early in the game instead of right before the final scene when the lover offers comfort.

omg you just raised such a HUUGE POINT !!!! please bioware !!! am calling out for you out here !!! let us live our little romance from the start !! with many interactions so we can enjoy our relationship through the whole game ~  

I mean at some point, when dealing with Avenline shyness with her crush going back and front ,Anders says something in the lines of 'she will do so much more just getting the man in a room alone'' i found myself cry out : then why did it took us three blighted years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

 i hope you'll do it in inquisition even if i deeply regret not having much interactions with Anders in 2 *sigh*  i hope i'll see him safe and fine with hawke at his sides ....speaking of , am so curious about where i'll find them ....somehow i have a feeling they will be spreading the freedom for mages revolution around thedas since ....maybe strating with the most biggest circle and thus, probably the one in tevinter empire...ooooh how am so excited to see this famous feared tevinter !!! i don't know why but its the place am most excited to discover ,maybe because its the one empired where mages rules and not the chantry !!! ..........wow i went so out of topic in one heartbeat ,but whatever haha, this been going on my mind while waiting for inqui so ~ ha  ! 

[karushna5]

I dont know, the more this conversation comes up the more weird it gets. How would say Fenris have a gay characterization? A bi one? Exactly how would this work for unexperianced characters like Alistair or Tali?

I mean the only way to do that is for them to announce who they are attracted to. Also what does hetero looking mean? Have any of these characters ever been hetero looking? Meaning men who have beards or are muscular are hetero looking? Someone seeds to tell bears that. Or feminine characters who like lipstick and Jewelry and like Leliana?

I dont know, I feel there has so long been a presumed straight until otherwise that the idea someone has to make clear under no certain terms they swing that way. Which is why most of the bisexuals are promiscuous I guess. Because they are not just straight so they must like everyone! And now they have to look the part? act the part?

Real LGBT people get that so often of not acting/looking/or being stereotypically gay so obviously we cant be. I think the whole straight until proven otherwise means you really have to go out of your way to be taken as you are. I know bisexuals. Unlike how many people believe, they are not promiscuous. One is kinda shy, and the other is incredibly picky about any partners. Gay people dont look like anything, lesbians dont look like anything, bisexuals are not beacons of sex. I think all of these stereotypes of what you have to be to count is ridiculous and has a lot to do with Straight people not being comfortable with the fact that we are normal and can be anybody.

[DaySeeker]

I haven't heard anyone saying stereotypes must be engaged in. These characters have had lives, experiences and relationships before they met us. They have opinions and attractions. Yes, characters are presumed straight unless they declare otherwise, therefore it would be nice for LI's to let us know where they stand. I'd prefer to be able to flirt with anyone, if they turn me down, fine, then we know where they stand.

[Allan Schumacher]

I dont know, I feel there has so long been a presumed straight until otherwise that the idea someone has to make clear under no certain terms they swing that way. Which is why most of the bisexuals are promiscuous I guess. Because they are not just straight so they must like everyone! And now they have to look the part? act the part?

 

This strikes me as a compelling reason to have set sexualities included from the standpoint of depicting everyone as people - as varied as anyone else - rather than of a particular stereotype.

[lane]

I just hope BW doesn't do like they did with DA2. Where you have a male character already romancing a female character then BW forcing another male NPC trying to jump on him then rage quits the team when you politely say you don't swing that way. That's what they did with Anders in DA2.

 

My friends that are gay or bi never do that. I respect them being gay or bi because they show me the same respect for being straight. How BW did with Anders had those same friends cringe because they would never act that way. We may joke back and forth but the whole rage quitting then only showing up to cause all the blood to be spilled was very poor taste, Bioware.

Anders never rage quite ,you probably went the rivaly path ,so you'll just have rivaly points .anyway there is more into his situation regarding romances  . But i'll tell you one thing : For Anders ,all that it matter is the freedom for mages ,its what he always wanted for himeself since he was torn from his mother and castred in the tower and by trying to flee it many times, its what he wanted for others after seeing all the treatement his kind ( from friends loved ones innocents..) endure and whats he swore he'll do with justice help. So if you didnt support what is his reason of living and while rivaling him not even on a romance path ,you'll might get this impression you got. 

which lead me to the second point: the point about this jump you even tho not romanced thing ,a point i already fully explained and i would galdly direct you to the page 10 here ,post 232 to just enlighten you a lot about why you feel this way !! thrust me you might understand then. its just a little big and i dont quite like to copy paste old posts . so its there for you to check if you're interested .

Now here am not telling you what you should do with your party, because in the end its up to you ,by this i mean what your hawke will see rightous around the events you went through. 

now please i dont want this to become a anders debate ,i already said all it need to be said for those who got the chance to see it,i don't feel the need to go any further since i said it all believe me . 

i just always feel this need pull within my very being to respond to correct somehow whenever its about him since its a very complex subject in its whole amplitude~