2138 réponses à ce sujet

[Isaidlunch]

@Hinata/Potato girl

 

How would you feel if we still get 4 bisexual companions, with Cullen and Scribbles being extras with set sexualities? I'm starting to think that may be what they're going for, but perhaps I'm being too optimistic.

[karushna5]

Right, but I guess my point was they didn't specify that there would be gay men and women.  So there could be a straight woman, bisexual woman, gay woman, and two bisexual men and that would be a variety of sexualities and everyone would get options.  Or reverse that with 3 males and 2 females.  I guess I'm just cautioning you to not expect a 2/2/2 breakdown (even if it seems likely) because they have never confirmed that.  All we know is there people will be getting options regardless of sexuality/gender and that the LIs will have a variety of sexualities.  The ratios are an unknown.

There is no reason to do that. Why replace A 4 all bi for 3 bi and 1 straight(same gendered) and 1 gay(same gendered) it just seems really really counter intuitive.

[daveliam]

Wrong?

 

Fenris is too mysterious?

 

This is not really a discussion I can keep up. I already, obviously stated that this is how I feel about certain characters.

 

Yes.  Wrong.  You stated that it was "awkward" and "wrong" to have Fenris be in a gay relationship because "he's too masculine".  That is a factually incorrect statement.  I'm not really interested in hearing about how it's your opinion because opinions can be wrong.

[Ryzaki]

Wrong?

 

Fenris is too mysterious?

 

This is not really a discussion I can keep up. I already, obviously stated that this is how I feel about certain characters.

 

Yeah suggesting that Fenris shoving MHawke against a wall is somehow implausible because he's masculine reminds me of the utterly idiotic arguments made before release that Fenris would lose his mysteriousness if he was bisexual because...I guess bisexual guys turn in their mysteriousness cards for some baffling reason. Masculinity and Femininity doesn't stop you from being any sexuality.

Sasha Braus, on 26 May 2014 - 6:30 PM, said:

    Of course there'd be advantages. They are just outweighed by the disadvantages.

Fair enough. I feel in a 1/1/1/1 or a 2/2 case they'd even out for me.

[SnakeCode]

Yeah, screw those people who want the option to romance the LI of their choice with the gender of their choice. 

No matter what Bioware do there will be people left unhappy with the decision they make.

 

If they go for the all LIs are bisexual route there will be complaints that it isn't realistic/accusations of playersexuality etc.

 

If they go for everyone having a set sexuality then there will be people annoyed that they can't romance the character they like the most.

 

 

I don't really think either complaint is really justified. Personally, I don't think Bioware should give a damn about letting people romance whoever they want. You like this guy over this guy? Big deal, they aren't our characters, and we have no right to feel any sort of ownership of them. They're Bioware's characters and they can do whatever they please with them as far as i'm concerned.

 

They're never going to please everyone, so this argument usually boils down to "Bioware should do it the way I want them to do it!"

[AkiKishi]

There is no reason to do that. Why replace A 4 all bi for 3 bi and 1 straight(same gendered) and 1 gay(same gendered) it just seems really really counter intuitive.

 

Because you can tell better stories around people with fixed sexuality than around Schrodinger's sex dolls. That was the reason given in the article and I agree with it. As for the actual numbers, those are just made up until someone says otherwise.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I know.  I'm just saying.  Damn me and my need to be the voice of reason!  I haven't been on the BSN much in the past week and it just seems like everyone is now talking like 2/2/2 is a done deal and I don't think it is.  I'm optimistic, but bracing just in case I end up disappointed. 

 

I know, I feel the same ...I'm trying not to get too attached to any one character for that very reason. But I am trying to remain optimistic that Bioware knows what they are doing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Hinata/Potato girl

 

How would you feel if we still get 4 bisexual companions, with Cullen and Scribbles being extras with set sexualities? I'm starting to think that may be what they're going for, but perhaps I'm being too optimistic.

lol at Potato Girl. I tried fitting that in my username but it wouldn't fit since ' takes more than one space apparently.

 

As for your question, it'd be better certainly since that way those who don't like NPC romances still have at least 2 options for them among the companions. 

[Enigmatick]

No matter what Bioware do there will be people left unhappy with the decision they make.

 

If they go for the all LIs are bisexual rout there will be complaints that it isn't realistic/accusations of playersexuality etc.

 

If they go for everyone having a set sexuality then there will be people annoyed that they can't romance the character they like the most.

 

 

I don't really think either complaint is really justified. Personally, I don't think Bioware should give a damn about letting people romance whoever they want. You like this guy over this guy? Big deal, they aren't our characters, and we have no right to feel any sort of ownership of them. They're Bioware's characters and they can do whatever they please with them as far as i'm concerned.

 

They're never going to please everyone, so this argument usually boils down to "Bioware should do it the way I want them to do it!"

Yet no matter what, one group will be louder than the other and feel justified because they are louder.

[daveliam]

There is no reason to do that. Why replace A 4 all bi for 3 bi and 1 straight(same gendered) and 1 gay(same gendered) it just seems really really counter intuitive.

 

I don't know why they chose to do something different this game.  That's a question for the devs.  In DA: O, we had four LI's (two straight and two bisexual).  In DA 2, we had five LI's (one straight and four bisexual).  I'm not sure what it will be this time around.  I'm just trying to caution people against turning assumptions into facts in your mind and then getting upset about it when those don't come true.  And I'm not doing it to flame or troll.  I'm trying to provide a gentle reminder that this is exactly what the devs warned us against a while back.  BSN has created the 2/2/2 system using speculation.  Bioware has never, to my understanding, even acknowledged it as an option.  I just don't want us to convince each other that it's going to be a 2/2/2 system and then being mad at them if there are two bisexual female LI's and three males LI's of various sexualities.  That's really all my post was meant to do.

[karushna5]

@Hinata/Potato girl
 
How would you feel if we still get 4 bisexual companions, with Cullen and Scribbles being extras with set sexualities? I'm starting to think that may be what they're going for, but perhaps I'm being too optimistic.

Nope. That makes even less sense. 4 bi + 2 as a replacement for 4 bi is less counterintuitive.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No matter what Bioware do there will be people left unhappy with the decision they make.

 

If they go for the all LIs are bisexual route there will be complaints that it isn't realistic/accusations of playersexuality etc.

 

If they go for everyone having a set sexuality then there will be people annoyed that they can't romance the character they like the most.

 

 

I don't really think either complaint is really justified. Personally, I don't think Bioware should give a damn about letting people romance whoever they want. You like this guy over this guy? Big deal, they aren't our characters, and we have no right to feel any sort of ownership of them. They're Bioware's characters and they can do whatever they please with them as far as i'm concerned.

 

They're never going to please everyone, so this argument usually boils down to "Bioware should do it the way I want them to do it!"

Doesn't mean they shouldn't try to seek a compromise so that the maximum number of fans are satisfied. 

[daveliam]

Because you can tell better stories around people with fixed sexuality than around Schrodinger's sex dolls. That was the reason given in the article and I agree with it. As for the actual numbers, those are just made up until someone says otherwise.

 

One more time.  Super clear this time.  Three out of the five LI's in DA 2 had confirmed fixed sexualities.  The other two were implied to be bisexual.  There is, literally, zero evidence to suggest that Merrill and Fenris were not bisexual.  Both were romanceable by male and female PCs.  What evidence are you using to declare them "Schrodinger sex dolls" as you like to you say?

 

I know, I feel the same ...I'm trying not to get too attached to any one character for that very reason. But I am trying to remain optimistic that Bioware knows what they are doing.

 

I know.  Fortunately for me, I'm pretty happy with 4 out of the 6 male LI's.  So even if I can't my Inquisitor's pixelated hands on DHMG, there's still a good chance that I'll get some combination of Cullen, Iron Bull, and Bearded Warden.  That's the part that's keeping me optimistic.  I could easily see me less happy if I were less pleased with the options, though.

[AkiKishi]

I don't know why they chose to do something different this game.  That's a question for the devs.  In DA: O, we had four LI's (two straight and two bisexual).  In DA 2, we had five LI's (one straight and four bisexual).  I'm not sure what it will be this time around.  I'm just trying to caution people against turning assumptions into facts in your mind and then getting upset about it when those don't come true.  And I'm not doing it to flame or troll.  I'm trying to provide a gentle reminder that this is exactly what the devs warned us against a while back.  BSN has created the 2/2/2 system using speculation.  Bioware has never, to my understanding, even acknowledged it as an option.  I just don't want us to convince each other that it's going to be a 2/2/2 system and then being mad at them if there are two bisexual female LI's and three males LI's of various sexualities.  That's really all my post was meant to do 

 

 

"That allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don’t romance the characters as well, and that’s also important,” Gaider said. “The rest will come as we discuss this aspect of the game in detail, but I’d hope the Dragon Age’s team’s expressed interest in inclusivity would provide us some benefit of the doubt until that happens".

 

http://gamerspective...es-controversy/

[SnakeCode]

Doesn't mean they shouldn't try to seek a compromise so that the maximum number of fans are satisfied. 

And how do you know that the maximum number of fans will be satisfied? What if almost all fans wanted set sexualities, would you still support Bioware doing whatever pleased the most fans?

 

Ultimately, the majority of players are selfish. They want Bioware to go a certain route not because of fairness, or because they give a damn about what other players want. They want Bioware to do it the way they want it to be, to please themselves.

[Cankiie]

Yes.  Wrong.  You stated that it was "awkward" and "wrong" to have Fenris be in a gay relationship because "he's too masculine".  That is a factually incorrect statement.  I'm not really interested in hearing about how it's your opinion because opinions can be wrong.

 

Yeah suggesting that Fenris shoving MHawke against a wall is somehow implausible because he's masculine reminds me of the utterly idiotic arguments made before release that Fenris would lose his mysteriousness if he was bisexual because...I guess bisexual guys turn in their mysteriousness cards for some baffling reason. Masculinity and Femininity doesn't stop you from being any sexuality.

 

Are we one some kind of anti-anti-gay parade here or what?

 

This is terribly aggressive.

 

As I can see from my post, mostly I describe how I feel it as being awkward to watch.

 

I am not even sure how to properly explain why, since I find male on male scenes with Anders and Zevran to be less awkward than with Fenris. So it is definently not the male on male thing. I admit, I am not 100% certain what it is, but Fenris just doesn't feel...... gay to me.

 

Btw.

 

Bisexuality is stil la set sexuality.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

"That allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don’t romance the characters as well, and that’s also important,” Gaider said. “The rest will come as we discuss this aspect of the game in detail, but I’d hope the Dragon Age’s team’s expressed interest in inclusivity would provide us some benefit of the doubt until that happens".

 

http://gamerspective...es-controversy/

 

I have yet to see a character's sexual orientation that's defined create a better story. 

 

 

And how do you know that the maximum number of fans will be satisfied? What if almost all fans wanted set sexualities, would you still support Bioware doing whatever pleased the most fans?

 

Ultimately, the majority of players are selfish. They want Bioware to go a certain route not because of fairness, or because they give a damn about what other players want. They want Bioware to do it the way they want it to be, to please themselves.

More options means more people can get what they want how they want, thus satisfied. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

 

"That allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don’t romance the characters as well, and that’s also important,” Gaider said. “The rest will come as we discuss this aspect of the game in detail, but I’d hope the Dragon Age’s team’s expressed interest in inclusivity would provide us some benefit of the doubt until that happens".

 

http://gamerspective...es-controversy/

 

 

While I agree with the idea that the characters orientations still existing outside of the relationship, (letting the LI's just be openly bisexual would do the same thing but anyways), I don't understand the bolded part. I'm not sure what part of the DA2 romances suffered so much b/c of that ambiguity? And if what they mean is they want to do more stories where the players sex matters, like with your ability to rule with Alistair/Anora, or the Dark Ritual...ehhh, no thanks?

[SnakeCode]

I know, I feel the same ...I'm trying not to get too attached to any one character for that very reason. But I am trying to remain optimistic that Bioware knows what they are doing.

I think that's the problem we're seeing a lot of. People feeling attachment to certain characters, attachment leads to people feeling like they have some sort of ownership of said character, who then feel they deserve some say in the development of the character. That leads to people saying things like "I looooove (insert waifu here) so I should have the right to romance them!"

 

Then i'm like "Cool, I should go tell Scarlett Johannson that I fancy her, so I should have the right to date her."

[SnakeCode]

I have yet to see a character's sexual orientation that's defined create a better story. 

 

 

More options means more people can get what they want how they want, thus satisfied. 

And what of those that won't be satisfied by that? Screw them?

[daveliam]

Are we one some kind of anti-anti-gay parade here or what?

 

This is terribly aggressive.

 

As I can see from my post, mostly I describe how I feel it as being awkward to watch.

 

I am not even sure how to properly explain why, since I find male on male scenes with Anders and Zevran to be less awkward than with Fenris. So it is definently not the male on male thing. I admit, I am not 100% certain what it is, but Fenris just doesn't feel...... gay to me.

 

Btw.

 

Bisexuality is stil la set sexuality.

 

The responses might be coming off as aggressive because it is very offensive to imply that a masculine character cannot be gay.  It doesn't matter if you "feel" that way or not.  Because it is factually incorrect. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And what of those that won't be satisfied by that? Screw them?

No different than any other system. People will always be screwed, so game companies should try to at least limit the fallout. 

[AkiKishi]

I never choose my LI before the game starts (if any). 

[Ryzaki]

Are we one some kind of anti-anti-gay parade here or what?

 

This is terribly aggressive.

 

As I can see from my post, mostly I describe how I feel it as being awkward to watch.

 

I am not even sure how to properly explain why, since I find male on male scenes with Anders and Zevran to be less awkward than with Fenris. So it is definently not the male on male thing. I admit, I am not 100% certain what it is, but Fenris just doesn't feel...... gay to me.

 

Btw.

 

Bisexuality is stil la set sexuality.

 

What.

 

One gets tired of hearing nonsense like "he doesn't look gay or she's too butch to be straight." You finding it awkward is fine but trying to use that to say Fenris doesn't feel a certain sexuality cause you think the animation is awkward is off. 

 

I'm quite aware that bisexuality is a set sexuality.

[daveliam]

While I agree with the idea that the characters orientations still existing outside of the relationship, (letting the LI's just be openly bisexual would do the same thing but anyways), I don't understand the bolded part. I'm not sure what part of the DA2 romances suffered so much b/c of that ambiguity? And if what they mean is they want to do more stories where the players sex matters, like with your ability to rule with Alistair/Anora, or the Dark Ritual...ehhh, no thanks?

 

I guess it could mean that the characters will discuss their sexualities in more explicit ways.  Maybe there will be a character like Alistair or Sebastian who has to deal with issues of heredity (maybe Celene?).  Or maybe there will be a LI who's ex plays a role.  Although, all of these could still happen with 4 bisexual LI's.  Meh.  I'm willing to wait to see what they give us.