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I'm sure they'll appreciate you letting them know.
Good point, I don't speak for everyone, neither do you. I guess I just want actual well done gay characters in fiction rather than forced ones.
With Cortez, I found it funny how you tried to support him in his time of need and ended up starting a relationship by accident, though I'd pin that on the dialogue wheel more than anything else.
Personally I think it's more a matter of wanting representation, but wanting it done accurately and well, and not just as a "humorous" stereotype to pander to the lowest common denominator. I've had lots of purely gay friends, I'm bi myself, and I must say I find the way a lot of gays are portrayed in media very insulting. Personally I'd like to see less "GAY" and more normal people who happen to be gay. False and/or derogatory representation is worse than no representation as it does nothing but reinforce the negative stereotype and make a joke of something very important to a lot of people.
False and/or derogatory representation is worse than no representation as it does nothing but reinforce the negative stereotype and make a joke of something very important to a lot of people.
You summed it up better than I ever could. Thanks, I always come across as really conservative and broody when I try and address this kind of thing. It's important for them to be in games but it's more important for them to be done correctly
Add me to the list of broken hearts. I hope we get a flirt option with her and she turns us down. I wonder how she would handle that situation...
Femquisitor: Has anyone ever told you how attractive you are?
Cassandra: All the time. Men and women both. You're wasting your time, by the way.
Femquisitor: Aww...
Those straight girl crushes, man I love those. 
I always found it sorta funny in DA2 with Aveline, there was my fem Hawke flirting with her shamelessly and Aveline completely oblivious to it all. I don't think Cass would be that clueless though. 
Those straight girl crushes, man I love those.
I always found it sorta funny in DA2 with Aveline, there was my fem Hawke flirting with her shamelessly and Aveline completely oblivious to it all. I don't think Cass would be that clueless though.
Aveline was quite literally Captain Oblivious. Her courtship quest... Oh dear.
Yeah, I don't see Cassandra being oblivious to it. I hope Sera flirts with her to annoy her. 
Aveline was quite literally Captain Oblivious. Her courtship quest... Oh dear.
Yeah, I don't see Cassandra being oblivious to it. I hope Sera flirts with her to annoy her.
I wouldn't complain if we get some dialogue like Leliana had with Morrigan, you are very beautiful Morrigan. Continues to talk out loud thoughts she should have kept to herself. Loved that back and forth aha. 
I wouldn't complain if we get some dialogue like Leliana had with Morrigan, you are very beautiful Morrigan. Continues to talk out loud thoughts she should have kept to herself. Loved that back and forth aha.
Hahahaha! That banter was gold! 'stop looking at my breasts' indeed.
Cassandra: Stop staring at my chest.
Sera: Not much to stare at, to be honest. You're on the smallish side, y'know?
Varric: Like little cupcakes...
Cassandra: *double head smack*
Personally I think it's more a matter of wanting representation, but wanting it done accurately and well, and not just as a "humorous" stereotype to pander to the lowest common denominator. I've had lots of purely gay friends, I'm bi myself, and I must say I find the way a lot of gays are portrayed in media very insulting. Personally I'd like to see less "GAY" and more normal people who happen to be gay. False and/or derogatory representation is worse than no representation as it does nothing but reinforce the negative stereotype and make a joke of something very important to a lot of people.
You say that, but it makes me wonder how young you are. Because trust me when I say, when you had NOTHING (except for subtextual behavior/dialogue from otherwise canonly straight characters-- watch the Celluloid Closet sometime), even shitty stereotypes, even gay villains, even the awful 'prison gay' tropes made you excited because oh my god that's actually a gay character on my TV/movie screen! Even the most stereotypically 'gay' characters still showed people that we existed.
Now I agree, we're at the point where it's time to get better written, more well-rounded LGBT people on screen (hell, some LBT people at ALL), but if you're trying to say that "no representation is always is better than stereotypical representation", I guess I'm gonna have to disagree. Even poor quality representation can spark a dialogue; and a show or game who includes an LGBT character at all is a show/game that is more likely to listen to concerns and do it better next time when their fans tell them they messed it up (see: Bioware's struggle to portray trans characters and how they messed it up, but still listened to the fans, and are committed to doing it better with DA:I and future games. Time will tell if they manage it, but isn't it better than never trying at all?).
Also what is a 'normal' person who happens to be gay, anyway? What does that mean? I hear that and I think "Gay characters(people) would be better if they were straight-passing and never ever mentioned their sexuality and could be imagined to be straight so as not to make straight people uncomfortable with their presence". Since you're bisexual, I know you didn't mean it like that, but I've heard enough straight people say similar sorts of things ("why do they have to even mention he's gay?" "Why do they have to force it on me?" etc etc), as well as gay people who want to shame other gay people for being too "obvious" or "flamboyant", and I start to get uncomfortable. I don't think LGBT people need to earn acceptance by blending in and acting 'normal', you know?
Anyway! Whew, that got away from me. I promise I'm not trying to attack you-- just a couple things you and the guy you're talking to mentioned got stuff circulating in my head and I wanted to put it in writing while I was thinking about it.
Guest_Puddi III_*
I know it's possible for people to end up writing stuff that reinforces the usual cultural misrepresentations of their own group, and we had the problem with Serendipity, but I still have to give a side eye and be awfully skeptical whenever it's suggested that Dragon Age is doing a disservice to gay people, when the lead writer is gay. I think he would catch things like that if they were actually a problem and not just "I found out they were gay, ick, much flaunting."
I think it's passed the stereotype point as you say. I think that what once was true is no longer true. Times change, and with that, so too must our methods. I never said I don't want gay representation at all, I disagree with that vehemently. Gays are out there, they're in media, that barrier is broken. It's now time to ask for quality representation or all one is doing is accepting the bare minimum regardless of how badly one is portrayed by it.
As for what I mean, I mean other than one flamboyantly gay friend, everyone else I've met is indistinguishable from any other human being, same fears, same desires, same hopes and dreams, just like anyone else. The only difference was, they were gay, and only interested in a romantic or sexual relationship with the same sex. This doesn't mean not mentioning, or having gay lovers, or it being out there, just treated with the same respect any straight characters relationship would be.
I'm not saying there's something wrong with people being flamboyantly gay, or that they are less than human or lacking the same hopes and dreams, but they are a minority within a minority, and typically what we see most in media. If talking about gays in general, it is gross misrepresentation to see them most commonly represented. Same with transgenders who are extreme and going for the shock factor. Both of these create the association that this is what gay and transgender is. Which makes things difficult for say a transgender woman who's just trying to live as a woman no different than any other when they if found out are associated with extreme behavior that is not actually typical.
I know it's possible for people to end up writing stuff that reinforces the usual cultural misrepresentations of their own group, and we had the problem with Serendipity, but I still have to give a side eye and be awfully skeptical whenever it's suggested that Dragon Age is doing a disservice to gay people, when the lead writer is gay. I think he would catch things like that if they were actually a problem and not just "I found out they were gay, ick, much flaunting."
I very much doubt they'll be doing a disservice myself, I hold out much hope that the homosexual characters will be people who happen to be gay and have that sexual orientation, and not be defined by it over everything else. I'm bi amongst other things I prefer not to say, but by far those things alone are not what define me or the core of my being, but part of the whole.
This strikes me as a compelling reason to have set sexualities included from the standpoint of depicting everyone as people - as varied as anyone else - rather than of a particular stereotype.
i have no issues with someone living their life how they choose to do so....I also have no problem with all groups and walks of life being represented. I am glad that these games represent everyone and I have no issue with that. I accept everyone for who they are or want to be...who am I to judge.
When it stops being about just merely representing people to then being shoved down my throat and pushing for more and more and more I do have a problem with that.
i have no issues with someone living their life how they choose to do so....I also have no problem with all groups and walks of life being represented. I am glad that these games represent everyone and I have no issue with that. I accept everyone for who they are or want to be...who am I to judge.
When it stops being about just merely representing people to then being shoved down my throat and pushing for more and more and more I do have a problem with that.
Goodness! *fans self*
Isn't it interesting how people who have a problem with LGBT content always use this exact phrase? "Shove down my throat".
I know a lot of Freud's theories have largely been debunked, but sometimes you really gotta wonder, hm? 
Goodness! *fans self*
Isn't it interesting how people who have a problem with LGBT content always use this exact phrase? "Shove down my throat".
I know a lot of Freud's theories have largely been debunked, but sometimes you really gotta wonder, hm?
LOL that is kinda funny now that I think about it.
Goodness! *fans self*
Isn't it interesting how people who have a problem with LGBT content always use this exact phrase? "Shove down my throat".
I know a lot of Freud's theories have largely been debunked, but sometimes you really gotta wonder, hm?
Sorry to heat you up over there.....I could change it to get it all over my face? Or force it all down?
I don't take the internet too seriously and I can joke as much as the next person. Like all human beings...I do have my limits though. At this stage in my life and how I view things I would in no way say I have a problem with any "LGBT" content. At least as its been done thus far.
How can someone get mad at something that is optional or avoidable? If it gets sprayed all over my face though...well.....
Sorry to heat you up over there.....I could change it to get it all over my face? Or force it all down?
I don't take the internet too seriously and I can joke as much as the next person. Like all human beings...I do have my limits though. At this stage in my life and how I view things I would in no way say I have a problem with any "LGBT" content. At least as its been done thus far.
How can someone get mad at something that is optional or avoidable? If it gets sprayed all over my face though...well.....
I'm kind of curious now. Where's the line drawn? At what point is it suddenly "shoved down your throat?" Give an example of when that line is crossed.
Sorry to heat you up over there.....I could change it to get it all over my face? Or force it all down?
I don't take the internet too seriously and I can joke as much as the next person. Like all human beings...I do have my limits though. At this stage in my life and how I view things I would in no way say I have a problem with any "LGBT" content. At least as its been done thus far.
How can someone get mad at something that is optional or avoidable? If it gets sprayed all over my face though...well.....
If only the heterosexual content that fills every piece of media ever was "optional or avoidable". Sigh... Alas...
I can only hope one day, that straight folks will be 'forced' to know the same pain as I have suffered.
Sorry to heat you up over there.....I could change it to get it all over my face? Or force it all down?
I don't take the internet too seriously and I can joke as much as the next person. Like all human beings...I do have my limits though. At this stage in my life and how I view things I would in no way say I have a problem with any "LGBT" content. At least as its been done thus far.
How can someone get mad at something that is optional or avoidable? If it gets sprayed all over my face though...well.....
well, heterosexual content gets always sprayed all over my face: I bet you don't even imagine how THIS feels like.
I'm kind of curious now. Where's the line drawn? At what point is it suddenly "shoved down your throat?" Give an example of when that line is crossed.
By "shoved down my throat" I meant it as a literal term as in "forced me to to do it"
So you were wanting an example of what is too far for me.....If I go into a location and everyone there is a gay male and I get constantly hit on and see guys kissing and stuff and I am forced to go and see/do this every play through. If I play a game and my character is gay and I have love scenes like with Shepard and Kaiden, but its forced on me "shoved down my throat" I take issue with that.
I am not gay so that is not something I want to see or have an experience with. If that content is there, but OPTIONAL and you don't get some amazing item for doing it then thats fine put it in the game you won't hear a peep from me. Enjoy it all you want.
What is the guy in this game? Dorian? I don't want him telling me my ass is nice or he'd like for me to bend him over or something constantly if I choose to have him in my party. But if he is gay and says so that's fine. If he is a love interest that optional...thats fine.....anything like that is ok. I don't get mad at having to see Trevors "equipment" in GTAV either. Like i said I have no problems with anyone. But I also don't want things that aren't me and that I don't want forced on me.
well, heterosexual content gets always sprayed all over my face: I bet you don't even imagine how THIS feels like.
You're right I can't. It is just how the world is. It is changing and I'm not saying its right. In your situation I would hate it as well. It would suck.
If only the heterosexual content that fills every piece of media ever was "optional or avoidable". Sigh... Alas...
I can only hope one day, that straight folks will be 'forced' to know the same pain as I have suffered.
No they won't force me. I just won't play/buy. Devs can make any game they want, but they don't force people to play them...its a choice. I know where you're coming from, but thats a bit selfish and not needed. Most straight people I know don't have this vendetta against gay people. I think most don't even care. Obviously thats not always the case...im just saying in my personal experience.
I know what its like to see a girl that is AMAZING you want her sooooo bad and you will NEVER get the chance because she is gay. I didn't hate her for that, I understood she just didn't share in what I wanted. I accepted it and moved on. I may have been bummed for a while, but I knew there was nothing I could do no matter how bad I wanted it.
I don't care how many romances are in the game. Straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, who cares? All love is a lie anyway. If you want to go through the stages of being on crack without doing direct, bodily harm to yourself, all the power to you no matter who you want to do it with.
By "shoved down my throat" I meant it as a literal term as in "forced me to to do it"
So you were wanting an example of what is too far for me.....If I go into a location and everyone there is a gay male and I get constantly hit on and see guys kissing and stuff and I am forced to go and see/do this every play through. If I play a game and my character is gay and I have love scenes like with Shepard and Kaiden, but its forced on me "shoved down my throat" I take issue with that.
I am not gay so that is not something I want to see or have an experience with. If that content is there, but OPTIONAL and you don't get some amazing item for doing it then thats fine put it in the game you won't hear a peep from me. Enjoy it all you want.
What is the guy in this game? Dorian? I don't want him telling me my ass is nice or he'd like for me to bend him over or something constantly if I choose to have him in my party. But if he is gay and says so that's fine. If he is a love interest that optional...thats fine.....anything like that is ok. I don't get mad at having to see Trevors "equipment" in GTAV either. Like i said I have no problems with anyone. But I also don't want things that aren't me and that I don't want forced on me.
So...just to be clear...you think Bioware is in danger of creating a gay orgy island?
I don't care how many romances are in the game. Straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, who cares? All love is a lie anyway. If you want to go through the stages of being on crack without doing direct, bodily harm to yourself, all the power to you no matter who you want to do it with.
This has always been such a strange thread...
So...just to be clear...you think Bioware is in danger of creating a gay orgy island?
no not at all I said there where it would start being "shoved down my throat"
Guest_Puddi III_*
So...just to be clear...you think Bioware is in danger of creating a gay orgy island?
I still have hope for Estwatch.
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