2138 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And what should i do instead? Encourage them to spread hate?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying eventually one side is going to have to stop the chain from continuing because otherwise nothing will ever change.

[WildOrchid]

I need to stop liking posts, i'll run out of likes at this rate.

[JadePrince]

Please please PLEASE do not equate the anger of the oppressed with the hate of the oppressor. It is not equivalent at ALL. I am angry at homophobes and transphobes because their hate is LITERALLY KILLING members of my community. No one is killing straight people for being straight. 

 

And Kallen, people have told you this before. Allan has told you this before. 

 

It is NOT the same. Saying "hate breeds hate" is showing a fundamental (and, frankly, willful) ignorance of the reality of LGBT people's lives and the world we live in.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Fine, whatever. I am an ignorant bigot for daring to hope that everyone stops the cycle and gets along. How foolish of me for even bothering. 

[Ravensword]

Bioware already did that in ME3(along with the massive dudebro fest too)

They may just combine the two in the next ME game where you'll have a massive festival of gay dudebros. Dudebros would be out of place in the DA series, though.

[NextArishok]

I need to stop liking posts, i'll run out of likes at this rate.

PM me whenever you want to gain likes.  I'll come here and start posting and you can reply to me.  (seriously)

[NextArishok]

I don't respect people who think homosexuality is a sin.

So you don't respect anyone who believes in the Bible that's fine as long as you acknowledge their right to do so.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Fine, whatever. I am an ignorant bigot for daring to hope that everyone stops the cycle and gets along. How foolish of me for even bothering. 

 

You've brought this line up before and marginalized people have tried to explain why we view it as a problematic statement. The statement ignores the fundamental positions of systemic inequality the two groups are in. You can't bring a knife to a gunfight and all that jazz, I guess. These groups aren't fighting with the same tools. Additionally, because of the large biases that exist, the 'hate' of the oppressed groups sticks out like a sore thumb, making it look more prominent then it is, where as the real, financially damaging, emotionally scaring, life endangering hate perpetuated by the majority is so conditioned that the minority often is told they are overreacting for noticing it.

[Samahl]

So you hate everyone who believes in the Bible thats fine as long as you acknowledge their right to do so.

 

Apparently not respecting people who selectively read bigoted meanings into holy books is the same as me hating everyone who believes in the Bible. Okay.

[AresKeith]

So you don't respect anyone who believes in the Bible that's fine as long as you acknowledge their right to do so.

 

You realize that not everyone who believes in the bible think homosexuality is a sin right?

[JadePrince]

You've brought this line up before and marginalized people have tried to explain why we view it as a problematic statement. The statement ignores the fundamental positions of systemic inequality the two groups are in. You can't bring a knife to a gunfight and all that jazz, I guess. These groups aren't fighting with the same tools. Additionally, because of the large biases that exist, the 'hate' of the oppressed groups sticks out like a sore thumb, making it look more prominent then it is, where as the real, financially damaging, emotionally scaring, life endangering hate perpetuated by the majority is so conditioned that the minority often is told they are overreacting for noticing it.

 

This.

 

Also, if you want to "stop the cycle" of "hatred", start by telling homophobic people to stop killing LGBT people, instead of telling LGBT to stop getting mad about it. :/

 

For pete's sake.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

On a related note, I find it incredibly annoying that even as adult media has more and more gay characters/couples children's media continues to have none whatsoever.

Sadly, if a kids tv show had a openly LGBT character included, it would either get pulled from broadcast or the character would edited to remove the non straight references or the character would just be removed completely thanks to all the likely complaints from homophbic parents who would object to any sort of LGBT content being shown. At best they'd likely include a female bisexual character that mentions their sexuality 1 time & then is shown exclusively in straight relationships afterwards

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You've brought this line up before and marginalized people have tried to explain why we view it as a problematic statement. The statement ignores the fundamental positions of systemic inequality the two groups are in. You can't bring a knife to a gunfight and all that jazz, I guess. These groups aren't fighting with the same tools. Additionally, because of the large biases that exist, the 'hate' of the oppressed groups sticks out like a sore thumb, making it look more prominent then it is, where as the real, financially damaging, emotionally scaring, life endangering hate perpetuated by the majority is so conditioned that the minority often is told they are overreacting for noticing it.

So what should I do then? Be one of those who supports insulting and hating the majority? Sorry, I can't do that. I've been subjugated to enough ill will in my life for every reason there is, and will not inflict that onto others. That makes me no better than those who made my life hell. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

Sadly, if a kids tv show had a openly LGBT character included, it would either get pulled from broadcast or the character would edited to remove the non straight references or the character would just be removed completely thanks to all the likely complaints from homophbic parents who would object to any sort of LGBT content being shown. At best they'd likely include a female bisexual character that mentions their sexuality 1 time & then is shown exclusively in straight relationships afterwards

 

Which leaves queer people grasping for the slightest hint that representation was intended. Which often leads to online wars and the general perception that 'gay people want everyone to be gay' because oh my god that would be the WORST.

 

Literally the closest we've gotten to a queer Disney princess.

 

So what should I do then? Be one of those who supports insulting and hating the majority? Sorry, I can't do that. I've been subjugated to enough ill will in my life for every reason there is, and will not inflict that onto others. That makes me no better than those who made my life hell.

 

Thats not even remotely what I said.

 

Look, when debates arise about content like this, ally's come in and go 'guys can't we all get along'. But they do this INSTEAD of saying 'no, its not wrong for a same-sex couple to kiss or hold hands as they walk down the street' etc. They make statements that provide legitimacy to the homophobia being perpetuated. They silence queer people voicing a real problem, condone the bigoted statements (intended or not) of the majority, and do this all under the guise of 'helping'. Queer people, all marginalized groups, want to get along, but the problem is that status quo needs to change for that to successfully happen. Perpetuating the status quo doesn't actually help marginalized individuals because if the status quo worked they would not be marginalized to begin with. And changing this or having discussions about inequality is not inherently supporting or perpetuating hate.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

So you don't respect anyone who believes in the Bible that's fine as long as you acknowledge their right to do so.

I wouldn't respect someone who picks & chooses parts of the bible to hate certain groups, is always funny to me that fundamentalists don't hate people who eat shellfish but would hate someone like me just cos i happen to find other women sexually attractive

[NextArishok]

You realize that not everyone who believes in the bible think homosexuality is a sin right?

No, I'm ok with a lot of things, I am not ok when people twist things around and make them untrue or try to change them up from what they are.

 

This will be my last contribution to this thread and then i will be moving along...(unless orchid needs some likes)

 

There are a lot of things that are sins and you either believe in the Bible or you don't.  There is a specific part of the bible in Leviticus  18:22 And it clearly defines how it is seen. (from a Biblical standpoint)

 

It was nice talking to you guys and I appreciate you all being nice and understanding with me and I'm sorry if i offended anyone.  I wish you all the best.  Take it easy.

[Bugsie]

Supports and insults the majority... If you think that's what people are doing here you need to refine your reading comprehension skills.

Fine, whatever. I am an ignorant bigot for daring to hope that everyone stops the cycle and gets along. How foolish of me for even bothering.

Okay, you can stop that. No one is calling you a bigot, just informing you that equating the two is misguided.

Not really sure.  I know I would want my kid to sheltered and innocent for as long as possible.  Not once they were in middle/high school....but for the first few years.  I don't know I can't really say.  I would have to be in that situation to really know how I feel.  I do know I don't want them knowing about any sexuality (of any kind) before they are old enough to know and mind what they are saying in front of others and know when its time to be proper and not talk about certain subjects in certain situations.

You do realise that phobia of same sex hand holding is mainly a western thing? Right?

Better not take your child to any country where culturally it's more accepted for those of the same sex to hold hands than a man and a woman. Indonesia is rife with men holding other men's hands and women holding other women's hands, oh my, who's thinking of those poor Indonesian children exposed to all that friendship!

Hand holding is a gesture of great friendship, a closeness that is not always sexual, even in western societies. It's been twisted in such a way that even children see it as 'shameful' over a certain age. And that is sad.

[jlb524]

So what should I do then? Be one of those who supports insulting and hating the majority? Sorry, I can't do that. I've been subjugated to enough ill will in my life for every reason there is, and will not inflict that onto others. That makes me no better than those who made my life hell. 

 

idk, you could support the minority getting dumped on instead of worrying about defending the majority...what terrible things do the minority do in this case?  Post angry rants about straight people on tumblr?

[JadePrince]

No, you just seem particularly attuned to hostility from your own 'team' reflecting hostility you've experienced and don't want to see it, or am I reaching?

 

But I think you're equivocating different kinds of hostility, and one of them is quite justified, if you ask me... unlike the other which is based on very selective reading of the old testament and more importantly, the opinions of religious leaders and peers, at least in the Christian-majority parts of the world.

 

edit: not equivocating... ahh, making a false equivalence? What's the word...

 

"Equating"?

 

I get what Kallen is trying to say. But, frankly the idea that we can all just 'stop hating' and get along is naive. And I don't feel like the responsibility should land on LGBT to forgive the people who are hurting us, as though that will change anyone's mind. The people that are hurting LGBT folks would continue to hurt us whether we are angry or the nicest, sweetest, non-confrontational people on the planet. It wouldn't MATTER. Because we'd still be LGBT. And the people who hurt us don't CARE if we're nice or not, because we're still wrong, gross, abnormal, sinful, abominations, whatever.

[Ianamus]

Sadly, if a kids tv show had a openly LGBT character included, it would either get pulled from broadcast or the character would edited to remove the non straight references or the character would just be removed completely thanks to all the likely complaints from homophbic parents who would object to any sort of LGBT content being shown. At best they'd likely include a female bisexual character that mentions their sexuality 1 time & then is shown exclusively in straight relationships afterwards

 

I honestly think it's one of those things where people are scared to do it, but if they actually just did it the reaction wouldn't be as bad as they fear. 2012 had a children's animated movie where a male character specifically mentioned having a boyfriend, and despite being the most tiny of baby steps it is a sign that things are inching ever so slowly towards the eventual openly gay couple in a children's show. 

 

In a way kids shows with LGBT characters who never mention their sexuality are even more annoying. I mean honestly, what is the point of making a character non-straight if it's never mentioned?

[MACharlie1]

Which leaves queer people grasping for the slightest hint that representation was intended. Which often leads to online wars and the general perception that 'gay people want everyone to be gay' because oh my god that would be the WORST.

 

Literally the closest we've gotten to a queer Disney princess.

I was right about to mention our dear Queen Elsa...since Let It Go is obviously about coming out of the closet. 

[Samahl]

 There is a specific part of the bible in Leviticus  18:22 And it clearly defines how it is seen. (from a Biblical standpoint)

 

Nope.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I was right about to mention our dear Queen Elsa...since Let It Go is obviously about coming out of the closet. 

Frozen could have made a good lesbian romance movie if Anna & Elsa weren't sisters in it

[CIA]

since Let It Go is obviously about coming out of the closet. 

It can mean that with a stretch or so but it's not exclusive to that.