2138 réponses à ce sujet

[WildOrchid]

Jesus there is no reasoning with you people. Just drop it.

 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Puppylove,  sorry to hear your father is that way to you, but honestly, am very glad you put that post back in. Thanks.
 
 
EDIT: I did defend one lesbian against a man. He said to her, if she was in his country (Africa), she would of been shot. To me, that made me think he would of killed my friend for being who she is. I don't care for that type of action and glad that guy was dealt with that tried to mess with you.

Is too many people like that, ive had to defend a lesbian friend of mine when her own father started to beat her cos of her sexuality, she was only a teenager at the time too, is worse that she has family in jamaica who would easily murder her over it

[mikeymoonshine]

I don't view straight white men as the enemy. This is a group that has the most privilege. Thats not villifying them, thats simply how things are. They can't control that anymore then I can control who I am. We all recognize that. They can however, choose how they use that position. Is it to enforce and perpetuate negative stereotypes and to keep oppressed and marginalized people oppressed, or do they stand up as allies and speak out about the ways their privilege has influenced their life, admitting that lacking that privilege has been harmful to other people.

 

The problem with this is that it's clearly not true. How privileged or unprivileged you are involves many factors and I am sorry but "straight white men" is a blanket statement and it's a rather idiotic one at that. There are many straight white men who have less privileged than I do (a gay man). 

 

You are the one perpetuating a negative stereotypes with this rhetoric. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

The problem with this is that it's clearly not true. How privileged or unprivileged you are involves many factors and I am sorry but "straight white men" is a blanket statement and it's a rather idiotic one at that. There are many straight white men who have less privileged than I do (a gay man). 

 

You are the one perpetuating a negative stereotypes with this rhetoric. 

 

Certainly there are many other facets of identity that can influence privilege beyond being a straight white man. And its true that these are often the most talked about at the expense of other types of privilege. However, straight privilege, male privilege, and white privilege definitely exist. They just are far from being the only types of privilege.

[mikeymoonshine]

Certainly there are many other facets of identity that can influence privilege beyond being a straight white man. And its true that these are often the most talked about at the expense of other types of privilege. However, straight privilege, male privilege, and white privilege definitely exist. They just are far from being the only types of privilege.

 

Privileged is only useful when you are looking at things on a societal level. I see far to many people taking it to a personal level and that's where the problems start. 

I feel like this kind of rhetoric is over used in progressive circles to the point where it becomes a contest about who is supposedly the most oppressed. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I see. But... in this case, it's not toward any generalized group like "religious people" or "straight white people." It's toward the specific religious people who use the bible as a pretext for bigotry. It's a response to abuse that's already happening on the part of that group. Why isn't hostility warranted then? Turning the other cheek is nice and all, but not something you can really demand from people. People have the right to respond to the abuse they receive.

And likewise, people have the right to respond to it by saying both sides should not attack hate with hate. An eye for an eye will only make the world blind. 

 

To use an example I saw on a TV show as I walked by, apparently lesbians weren't allowed to go to prom in anything but dresses due to the dress code. So they and all their friends go in tuxedos to protest the dress code. The teacher wouldn't let them in because he has to follow the rules of the school since he is an employee. So an argument starts and the lesbians call him a fascist. That is uncalled for and immediately they lost my support. So it's that kind of thing I am against when it comes to what is an appropriate response. 

[Lady Nuggins]

You know Tumblr didn't invent these words, right?  That they've been part of actual academic discussion for years?

[CIA]

You know Tumblr didn't invent these words, right?  That they've been part of actual academic discussion for years?

Yes, but the video addresses how baseless and silly the term really is. Real 'Academic' discussion will not use terms like 'white privelaged shitlord', they'll approach arguments with reason, diplomacy and understanding.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Privileged is only useful when you are looking at things on a societal level. I see far to many people taking it to a personal level and that's where the problems start. 

I feel like this kind of rhetoric is over used in progressive circles to the point where it becomes a contest about who is supposedly the most oppressed. 

 

Ok... my post was clearly societal and not personal...since it wasn't directed at anyone.

 

Also CIA I'm not going to watch a 21 minute video that makes it seem like privilege is a word tumblr made up, instead of, ya know, something used at an academic level, by brilliant scholars, etc in addition to some key parts of the internet.

 

Lady Nuggins...beating me to the punch yet again!

 

Yes, but the video addresses how baseless and silly the term really is. Real 'Academic' discussion will not use terms like 'white privelaged shitlord', they'll approach arguments with reason, diplomacy and understanding.

 

So...unless we all have a PHD and want to submit our arguements to the same academic journal we can't have an intelligent conversation on the matter? Right, thats not an antiquated, backwards, and downright oppressive requirement. No one here was using rhetoric remotely similar to what you're quoting.

[Bugsie]

Discussions about who is ‘more oppressed’ are not useful, but they often arise when sensitive topics on representation occur.

 

If the topic is about A, someone will inevitably chime in about B even though the topic is not about B.

 

The argument then occurs: "B is just as important why are you not talking about B!  Are you B’ist?"  Often by people not the least bit concerned about A or B.

 

Classic derailment.

[DaySeeker]

The problem with this is that it's clearly not true. How privileged or unprivileged you are involves many factors and I am sorry but "straight white men" is a blanket statement and it's a rather idiotic one at that. There are many straight white men who have less privileged than I do (a gay man). 

 

You are the one perpetuating a negative stereotypes with this rhetoric. 

 

Privilege is a word now with multiple meanings which you have confused in your post.  I don't think this forum is the place for that discussion, but if you would like me to clarify you can PM me.

[Puppy Love]

I think we need to stop, I see this heading downhill fast.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Discussions about who is ‘more oppressed’ are not useful, but they often arise when sensitive topics on representation occur.

 

If the topic is about A, someone will inevitably chime in about B even though the topic is not about B.

 

The argument then occurs: "B is just as important why are you not talking about B!  Are you B’ist?"  Often by people not the least bit concerned about A or B.

 

Classic derailment.

 

Yes, and since no one here who is talking about privilege HAS been making personal attacks, this suggestion that we all 'might' and therefore need to be curbed before we suddenly start reeks of just that type of derailment.

 

Lets get back on topic: Dorian, Bull...maybe one more male romance option for the guys? Solas? Blackwall? Varric!?

 

mikeymoonshine: if you want to continue this, either PM DaySeeker or myself or both.

[mikeymoonshine]

Ok... my post was clearly societal and not personal...since it wasn't directed at anyone.

 

Also CIA I'm not going to watch a 21 minute video that makes it seem like privilege is a word tumblr made up, instead of, ya know, something used at an academic level, by brilliant scholars, etc in addition to some key parts of the internet.

 

Lady Nuggins...beating me to the punch yet again!

 

Well the part I responded to seemed to be sort of directed towards straight white men. Telling them they can't help having this position of privilege that they are born with but they can help others by accepting it and accepting that other people are less privileged than they are.

 

That was the part I was responding to because it's wrong. It's a generalisation. 

 

The tumblr point is more about people acting like experts on topics they do not fully understand but I didn't watch the video either so I dunno what it's claims are. 

[DaySeeker]

I'm unclear.  Have they annoced the remaining love interests?  Do we know at least one remaining is bi?

[CIA]

Lets get back on topic: Dorian, Bull...maybe one more male romance option for the guys? Solas? Blackwall? Varric!?

 

Varric is a no-no for everyone.

Bull is the bisex.

Solas seems like the logical choice, yet I literally know nothing about Blackwall so it might be that

[mikeymoonshine]

Privilege is a word now with multiple meanings which you have confused in your post.  I don't think this forum is the place for that discussion, but if you would like me to clarify you can PM me.

 

Fine PM away but I do not believe I have confused anything in my post. 

[Puppy Love]

I'm hoping for Varric for us dwarven girls, but sadly pretty sure Bianca is going to show up, so not likely

[CIA]

I'm hoping for Varric, but sadly pretty sure Bianca is going to show up, so not likely

That, plus I don't think Gaider likes the idea of dwarf romance, I believe he described it as 'eww' which is fair enough.

 

He's okay with walking goat-bull people though haha so idk what to think

[mikeymoonshine]

I hope at least one is bi or gay, I don't really mind which one though. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So at what point is fighting back warranted? At some point in an unmitigated beating, you're liable to lose more than your eye.

 

I don't advocate a disproportionate response like shouting fascist or what have you in the situation you mentioned, but certainly I don't think those girls should have just said "oh ok" and walked away. They would certainly be right to protest and make their grievance known in a respectful manner befitting the respect this teacher had given, 'just following the rules' as you say he was.

 

edit: ehh also, maybe we should continue this via PM if you want, I doubt the mods will be happy seeing how far this particular discussion has gotten already. 

Send me a PM then. 

[JadePrince]

So at what point is fighting back warranted? At some point in an unmitigated beating, you're liable to lose more than your eye.

 

I don't advocate a disproportionate response like shouting fascist or what have you in the situation you mentioned, but certainly I don't think those girls should have just said "oh ok" and walked away. They would certainly be right to protest and make their grievance known in a respectful manner befitting the respect this teacher had given, 'just following the rules' as you say he was.

 

Exactly.

 

I don't know how many more ways to explain that one side is taking an eye and the other side is saying "HEY, why did you take my eye?? That hurt! Why are you such a jerk?" Those are not equivalent positions, and the person losing an eye has every right to be upset about it. 

 

But I'm tired and the people who don't get it at this point just aren't gonna get it. 

 

...

 

I'm crossing my fingers for Solas as a bi LI. It'd be pretty freaking amazing if m/m players got three whole choices this time around. I mean, wow, can you imagine it??

[Puppy Love]

So at what point is fighting back warranted? At some point in an unmitigated beating, you're liable to lose more than your eye.

 

I don't advocate a disproportionate response like shouting fascist or what have you in the situation you mentioned, but certainly I don't think those girls should have just said "oh ok" and walked away. They would certainly be right to protest and make their grievance known in a respectful manner befitting the respect this teacher had given, 'just following the rules' as you say he was.

 

I think what they did was fine, minus the fascist.  Is almost a perfect response to the situation.  Sadly in any large group there's going to be bad apples saying and doing whatever they can to get their voice heard, be it positively or negatively.  These were teenagers.  Their message was good, but let's be honest do you really expect a bunch of teenagers to one and all maintain diplomacy?  That's just silly.  Yes the fascist thing was wrong, but it doesn't change the overall intent.  That being said, they would have helped their cause more had they reigned the girl in as a group, and protested without such words.  But these are teenagers, at least they're trying to make a difference, to many these days do nothing but pay lip service.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think we need to stop, I see this heading downhill fast.

Yeah, I'm stopping.

 

As for what orientation the LIs will be, I can see them both being bi so everyone has at least three options sexual orientation-wise.