2138 réponses à ce sujet

[Puppy Love]

In the current game there are bi, straight and homosexual characters, they're trying something new to see if it works out better.  As to how they could not do it before.  It's a learning process, or do think man learned to fly overnight?

[mikeymoonshine]

I find the debate about bisexual characters needed to "prove" their sexuality to be an interesting one, as I can easily see it from both sides.

 

On the one hand, obviously a bisexual person does not need to indicate an attraction to both sexes to be bisexual. Any character who never specifically declares themselves straight or gay could be bisexual. 

 

But when it comes to media and character representation... It's a different matter. I can't see a character that never expresses any interest in both genders or states that they are bisexual to be a "bisexual character", even if the creators say that they are. It's like saying that your character is a great fighter even though they never win a single battle, or that they are moral and just even though we see the character throwing kittens into rivers and burning down orphanages. 

 

Yes people in real life can be bisexual without indicating it, but if a creator is going to make a character in their piece of work be bisexual then they need to actually write a bisexual character, one who the audience can tell is bisexual. If it's just a throwaway comment by the creator that means nothing and is never indicated in-universe in any way then what is the point of giving them any defined sexuality at all? 

 

I understand what you are saying but these analogies do not work. 

 

Constantly losing battles goes against the idea that you are good at fighting. Doing things that would be perceived as immoral goes against the idea that you are what would be perceived as moral. 

 

These actions are not consistent with the premises you gave. 

 

A bisexual man who only seems to be interested in woman can still be a bisexual man. That fact does nothing to prove that he isn't and it is not inconsistent with his bisexuality because we cannot know who he is sexually attracted to without going into his head somehow. 

 

Yes a characters sexuality needs to be indicated for it to be a relevant part of them as a character but that doesn't mean they cannot be a sexuality that is not indicated. What about characters who's sexuality does not come up in any way? Do they have no sexuality at all? No, they don't as far as the character goes within the world but it's not reasonable to assume they could not have a sexuality.

[phantomrachie]

How could be talking about equality if every heterosexual that  gives his two cents is inmediattly attacked just for being what he is? I'm not asking anyone to became attached in marriage with a person of the opossite sex just because some narrow minded individuals thought it should be that way, I just came to point that if they are doing it right this time, how could not do it right before?

So... now everybody is a potential bisexual then? this makes even less sense. I have no idea how a bisexual mind is because i have no one. But now you are saying that every person in the world is bisexual in some degree, or at least that's what i feel you are trying to say me. There are homosexual and heterosexual people, a lesbian will never have any interest in men as neither  do I. Same for gays and straight women with other women.

 

I've yet to see any heterosexual giving their two cents being attacked, although I have seen people who have made homophobic and sexists comments called on on it, as they should be. Being heterosexual doesn't give you a license to discriminate against others.

 

If you feel that I'm trying to say that everyone in the world is a bit bisexual then you've misunderstood me, as I said nothing like that. What I'm saying is that just because a man expresses an interest in women, it does not 100% guarantee that he is straight.

 

It is your assumption of Ander's sexuality that has made you annoyed not his sexuality itself 

 

The Kinsey scale suggests that sexuality is fluid and not rigid like you suggest. 

[drummerchick]

Dragon Age 2 for example...

What makes worse is that every straight person that comes here without planning to attack or be attacked is either bashed or provoked 

Please don't group all of us straighties together. I peeked into this thread and never felt bashed or provoked.
Felt some light shoulder rubbing, but I quite enjoyed it.

[mikeymoonshine]

Do you guys think there will be a backlash thing from the religious right over the "gay romances"?  Bioware has had several of these and after the DA:O, ME3 and SWTOR ones it hardly seems worth it but I wouldn't put it past them. 

[Puppy Love]

Do you guys think there will be a backlash thing from the religious right over the "gay romances"?  Bioware has had several of these and after the DA:O, ME3 and SWTOR ones it hardly seems worth it but I wouldn't put it past them. 

 

Chances are, if they do, it'll likely blow up in their faces same as it usually does.  Kind of like how I wonder how the KKK feels about how their actions ultimately helped speed up the fight for racial equality.

[SardaukarElite]

Most people don't just blurt out their sexual preferences out of the blue. You don't go from discussing baseball to saying 'by the way, I'm gay/bi/straight'. Straight people don't feel the need to announce they are straight, why would someone of a different sexuality?

 

Except for on these forums, where some people announce it like they are going through customs.

 

"I'm a heterosexual male and I feel attacked / think Dorian is magnificent / want to romance Sera."

[KaiserShep]

Do you guys think there will be a backlash thing from the religious right over the "gay romances"?  Bioware has had several of these and after the DA:O, ME3 and SWTOR ones it hardly seems worth it but I wouldn't put it past them. 

 

While I'm sure the thought has probably crossed the minds of that lot, the target is a lot bigger these days, since such a thing is far more common in other forms of media anyway. On the other hand, being interactive media has made it a special case, especially when it came to issues such as violence, so I wouldn't be surprised if that same principle were applied there.

[karushna5]

I mean a better analogy since you used fighting would be a guy likes to read, he LOVES books, talks about books, is a huge fan of books and is a straight A student who studies hard. Later, we find this character also does track. Just because he is a student and they never mentioned he likes sports does not mean he cant be both even though culturally we assume sometimes that studious and Jock dont go together.

We certainly wouldnt call his character assassinated. Or say he made no sense. The fact is, a Jock is more socially acceptable way to describe a character, or something to do, and does not make anyone uncomfortable. Describing that studious Jock as gay, now that becomes the problem, because characters have to be warned about it. And he cant be Bi apparently if all he shows interest in so far are women. I have not noticed this same thought processes over Ellie in Last of Us. Tons of gamers have mentioned she could be Bi or just experimenting even after the devs said she was a lesbian. Apparently, people need to be straight and any explanation to either
Deny their actual identity or act insulted that they exist outside what they seemed to be is allowed.

[Stelae]

I hope after I play the game, I become gay. That will really ****** off the fundies - and verify their fears. 

 

 

Edit: (Though I'm actually pan, so that would ****** them off as well. Though they likely don't know what pan means...)

You should explain it to them, if you really want to bake their noodle. 

 

With visual aids. 

 

But surely a Fundie could understand and admire a deep attachment that saw through the surface noise of gender and whatnot, and concerned itself with the soul or persona (or insert word of choice here) of a person?  I mean, it's almosst G-dly.   

 

(That last has often given me time to escape the conversation in my own family; I hope it may be of some use ... )

[Allan Schumacher]

Dragon Age 2 for example...

Now this tread trait us like if we were villians just because Mario is straight. I pointed that I felt alienated in this topic just because i'm interested in women and not in any men. What makes worse is that every straight person that comes here without planning to attack or be attacked is either bashed or provoked like if this place was bikini bottom instead of BSN.

I was furious about "anders" in dragon age 2, specially since they just turned him bi and used a non existent character to plot hole his prefferences, i feel that the character was not only bastardized but also raped to please a bunch of cruel short sighted fangirls who don't give a dime about any character and just want yaoi.

 

If you feel alienated by this topic, I am curious why you entered it?  What were you expecting the topic to contain?

 

Furthermore, if you feel alienated by this topic, how do you think a gay person might feel by an abundance of discussions (not just here) that focus much more on straight relationships?  Can you understand, then, that you coming in here and saying this thread alienates you can be frustrating?  Must every thread be comfortable and about content you want?

 

I'm a straight man, and this thread does not alienate me.  I'm also a heterosexual that is present in this thread and is not being attacked.  What's the difference between you and I?  I'm skeptical that people are only nice to me because I have BioWare under my name.

 

 

Note: much of the language you use in your post is completely unacceptable....  This is a warning.

[Basement Cat]

Ice cream analogy:

 

Think of it like there are two people, and one of them has gotten two scoops of ice cream their whole life and the other has only gotten one scoop. It doesn't matter, right? Because ice cream is a good thing anyway. The second person should be happy they got an ice cream at all. Then the first person is forced to split a scoop with the second person and complains about it. They want two scoops. They've always had two scoops. Why can't they have two scoops now? Why is no one talking about their original two scoops anymore? They're complaining because they believe they're entitled to the two scoops when really, things have just being brought up to a more equal level and because of that they're not getting the treatment they're used to. To the second person, who for the first time in their life finally gets an extra half a scoop, this obviously comes off as ridiculous and selfish. Even if, as often is the case, it is not the first person's intent to seem or be so.

Very good analogy, but I disagree on a minor point:

 

Instead of scoop size being reduced, it's more like new flavors were introduced. Say, originally you only had chocolate. One group got their ice cream and the other had nothing. Then strawberry was introduced for the other group. The first group complains that they want strawberry too and that it's not fair, but the introduction of strawberry doesn't mean they can't have chocolate anymore.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that making content for LGBT folk doesn't take anything away from the straight folk. In Origins, we had 4 love interests out of 8 companions (if you include Shale), two of which were available for straight people. In Inquisition we have 12 companions, 8 of which are romances. Of those known, straight people have two options and gay people have two options. So yeah, maybe it's not proportional to the number of companions, but it's still two options. Nothing lost.

 

Or in other words:

 

''But I want strawberry too!''

''I'm sorry, but the strawberry doesn't want you.''

[Ianamus]

I understand what you are saying but these analogies do not work. 

 

Constantly losing battles goes against the idea that you are good at fighting. Doing things that would be perceived as immoral goes against the idea that you are what would be perceived as moral. 

 

These actions are not consistent with the premises you gave. 

 

A bisexual man who only seems to be interested in woman can still be a bisexual man. That fact does nothing to prove that he isn't and it is not inconsistent with his bisexuality because we cannot know who he is sexually attracted to without going into his head somehow. 

 

Yes a characters sexuality needs to be indicated for it to be a relevant part of them as a character but that doesn't mean they cannot be a sexuality that is not indicated. What about characters who's sexuality does not come up in any way? Do they have no sexuality at all? No, they don't as far as the character goes within the world but it's not reasonable to assume they could not have a sexuality.

 

It's about how the audience perceive a character verses how the creator does. Just as the audience make their own options on whether a character is strong, weak, moral or just they can also have an opinion on a characters sexuality. Some people see chemistry between characters the creator never intended, and may see the character as a sexuality different to that the creator intended. 

 

And is that persons view necessarily wrong? If somebody looks at everything the character says and does in the game, book or movie and deduces that they are a certain sexuality is that an any less valid an interpretation of that character than the creators? If it isn't specifically defined then it is up for the audience to interpret it however they want. 

 

I don't have anything against characters whose sexuality can be seen in different ways, so long as their sexuality is specifically not relevant. If a characters sexuality does become relevant to the audience, like with LI's then I think it should be defined. But when it comes down to it I don't really see characters that we only know are bisexual because the creator told us so to be "bisexual characters", because they can be perceived any other way by the audience. Characters who can be perceived as bisexual is closer to how I would define them.

 

We need more bisexual characters who aren't promiscuous, but are clearly defined as bisexual. If the audience continue to look at characters intended to be bisexual but who act so that the audience can interpret them different ways then those characters do nothing to represent bisexual people or remove negative stereotypes associated with bisexuality. 

[Fisva]

Lol ikr. I laughed.

 

Please show me games that are "overwhelmed" by bi and gay characters. Because i see none.

 

Lol. I laughed.

Many games from Nintendo or Sega have "bi and gay" content, some of them more, some of them less. Even Super Mario Bros (!). As far as I recall, in Metal Gear Solid there also have been some characters like this, bi Vamp for example. Even in Assassin's Creed such content is present. There are plenty of games that contain some references to sexuality.

So, yeah, I feel overwhelmed. And probably plenty of people feel that too.

 

Straight people are not "overwhelmed" They are dealing with the fact Gay people exist and wont disappear. That they are being shown as people and are given that humanization. Saying you are overwhelmed is admitting that you find the number currently uncomfortable, that somehow any number of respectful showing of a person who happens to have particular sexuality can be uncomfortable when there is much much more of whatever you are.

 

I am not dealing with that fact. I am bombarded with it. I do accept gays and bis, but I have got a feeling that now straight people are getting less important. Everyone is equal, really.

[Vapaa]

 

I am not dealing with that fact. I am bombarded with it. I do accept gays and bis, but I have got a feeling that now straight people are getting less important. Everyone is equal, really.

 

"I accept that gay people exist but I wish they would do their gay things hidden, away from my sensitive eyes, because occasional occurences is the same as being bombarded with it"

[Basement Cat]

Lol. I laughed.

Many games from Nintendo or Sega have "bi and gay" content, some of them more, some of them less. Even Super Mario Bros (!). As far as I recall, in Metal Gear Solid there also have been some characters like this, bi Vamp for example. Even in Assassin's Creed such content is present. There are plenty of games that contain some references to sexuality.

So, yeah, I feel overwhelmed. And probably plenty of people feel that too.

 

 

I am not dealing with that fact. I am bombarded with it. I do accept gays and bis, but I have got a feeling that now straight people are getting less important. Everyone is equal, really.

I would hardly call that being 'bombarded'. They have a couple of gay or bi people in their games. The rest are all straight or undisclosed. It's not that straight people are getting less important, it's just that LGBT are getting acknowledge as important too.

[Fisva]

"I accept that gay people exist but I wish they would do their gay things hidden, away from my sentsitive eyes, because occasional occurences is the same as being bombarded with it"

I'm done here. Hate is everywhere.

[Basement Cat]

I'm done here. Hate is everywhere.

You reap what you sow.

[BabyFratelli]

I'm done here. Hate is everywhere.

 
I probably shouldn't bother, but I'm just going to repeat what I said on the previous page:
 
"Think of it like there are two people, and one of them has gotten two scoops of ice cream their whole life and the other has only gotten one scoop. It doesn't matter, right? Because ice cream is a good thing anyway. The second person should be happy they got an ice cream at all. Then the first person is forced to split a scoop with the second person and complains about it. They want two scoops. They've always had two scoops. Why can't they have two scoops now? Why is no one talking about their original two scoops anymore? They're complaining because they believe they're entitled to the two scoops when really, things have just being brought up to a more equal level and because of that they're not getting the treatment they're used to. To the second person, who for the first time in their life finally gets an extra half a scoop, this obviously comes off as ridiculous and selfish. Even if, as often is the case, it is not the first person's intent to seem or be so."

 

That's why you're getting the reactions you're getting. 

 

Everyone is being treated equally. Well, I would argue that straight people are still getting their cake and eating it too, but things are starting to even out, and that makes you feel like straight people are less important when in reality, video games only have so much room for content and they're beginning to share it around. It's something to celebrate, not sulk about.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Lol. I laughed.
Many games from Nintendo or Sega have "bi and gay" content, some of them more, some of them less. Even Super Mario Bros (!). As far as I recall, in Metal Gear Solid there also have been some characters like this, bi Vamp for example. Even in Assassin's Creed such content is present. There are plenty of games that contain some references to sexuality.
So, yeah, I feel overwhelmed. And probably plenty of people feel that too.
 

 
I am not dealing with that fact. I am bombarded with it. I do accept gays and bis, but I have got a feeling that now straight people are getting less important. Everyone is equal, really.

You have a very poor and unhealthy view of what equality means if you feel that any representation of different sexualities somehow encroaches on the overall straightness of these products.

[Basement Cat]

 That's why you're getting the reactions you're getting. 

 

Everyone is being treated equally. Well, I would argue that straight people are still getting their cake and eating it too, but things are starting to even out, and that makes you feel like straight people are less important when in reality, video games only have so much room for content and they're beginning to share it around. It's something to celebrate, not sulk about.

I think the negative reactions were triggered more by the 'I feel bombarded by LGBT content' thing. Having one or two LGBT characters in a game is apparently overwhelming.

 

That reminds me of the 'What would you do' episode where they had a male gay couple sitting on a public bench, holding hands and being affectionate. (touching foreheads, occasional little kisses, that sort of thing. Not blatantly making out or groping.) Somebody called the cops on them! They recreated the scenario with a female gay couple. People were taking pictures and staring.

 

Some people...

[Vapaa]

I'm done here. Hate is everywhere.

 

It's not my fault if you're being insensitive, by barging here prending being "bombarded" with LGBT stuff, you're just shitting all over LGBT people who have ACTUALLY BEEN bombarded with straight stuff litterally at every street's corner.

 

If you can't process it, then I'm afraid we won't have kind words for you.

[Ianamus]

 
I probably shouldn't bother, but I'm just going to repeat what I said on the previous page:
 
"Think of it like there are two people, and one of them has gotten two scoops of ice cream their whole life and the other has only gotten one scoop. It doesn't matter, right? Because ice cream is a good thing anyway. The second person should be happy they got an ice cream at all. Then the first person is forced to split a scoop with the second person and complains about it. They want two scoops. They've always had two scoops. Why can't they have two scoops now? Why is no one talking about their original two scoops anymore? They're complaining because they believe they're entitled to the two scoops when really, things have just being brought up to a more equal level and because of that they're not getting the treatment they're used to. To the second person, who for the first time in their life finally gets an extra half a scoop, this obviously comes off as ridiculous and selfish. Even if, as often is the case, it is not the first person's intent to seem or be so."

 

That's why you're getting the reactions you're getting. 

 

Everyone is being treated equally. Well, I would argue that straight people are still getting their cake and eating it too, but things are starting to even out, and that makes you feel like straight people are less important when in reality, video games only have so much room for content and they're beginning to share it around. It's something to celebrate, not sulk about.

 

To be honest I don't think it's a very good analogy. Straight people can enjoy bisexual and homosexual characters in media just as much as everyone else. It's not like only people who share their sexuality can enjoy their presence. 

 

So really, nobody's 'sharing' or 'losing out' on anything... except the people who just don't like homosexuality or bisexuality. And why should anyone care what they think?

[BabyFratelli]

To be honest I don't think it's a very good analogy. Straight people can enjoy bisexual and homosexual characters in media just as much as everyone else. It's not like only people who share their sexuality can enjoy their presence. 

 

The point isn't the media, it's to help explain the bafflement people have when others get annoyed with them. But you're welcome not to like it.