2139 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

I would like a term better to fit all those in a lot simpler setup.   I still don't like using Queer.

 

MOGA sounds easier to write out, as long as it covers everyone.

It sounds like the name of a Panda...but then again I'm tired.

[RevilFox]

Male Lesbian... I don't .. I.. can't... even... no.. words

What would you call it?

[aTigerslunch]

It does, I agree.  It still would be nice to cover all in one that is left out on LGBT.

[Ina]

The acronym and catch all phrase for me has a couple of issues. The grey-asexual umbrella is technically under the acronym, but for people like me who mostly identify as heterosexual with some ace leanings, I sometimes kinda feel I'm neither here nor there. I just go with straight because for all practical purposes I appear straight and any ace leanings I have are not as apparent so I rarely bring it up unless it's relevant. But sometimes I feel I'd rather not have these long catch all phrases or the hetero vs the rest because I feel very unwanted in both groups and also find it difficult to identify with either. That doesn't feel very good. I hope what I'm saying makes sense and I'm not making any blanket statements here btw, this is just my personal feelings on the matter in regards to my own orientation. 

[Ianamus]

The acronym is trying to cover all different gender identities and sexual identities... and it just ends up being a big, jumbled mess. I still use the term 'LGBT' but I refuse to add any of the subsequent characters solely because I can barely remember half of them and nobody would know what I was talking about. 

 

My catch-all is the Genderbread person: http://itspronounced...ead-person-v2-0

 

It makes a lot more sense to people than a string of twenty characters, and according to my dad they use it a lot where he works (he works at Bank of America and is on the diversity council) to promote diversity and increased understanding. 

 

 

I've been meaning to mention it the forums for awhile now, but never really had the chance to bring it up. It doesn't have a way to specify demisexuality/ grey-A area as far as I'm aware, but it would be difficult to display that on a graph, so I understand why it isn't there. 

 

I really like the way attraction to men and attraction to women are on two different sliders. The biggest flaw of the single slider "sexuality-spectrum" was that it implied that as attraction to one gender went up attraction to the other gender went down, which isn't accurate at all. 

[aTigerslunch]

I like that GenderBread person. Would it be opposed by the LGBT here?  If not, I may pick that up and use it.

[Gustave Flowbert]

I don't think you'll ever have one single representation for everyone but I think this is - by far - the best attempt to really give a starting point for people exploring these concepts. I'm glad they took it off the binary slider for this version!

[RevilFox]

I've never heard that term before, but it seems pretty good.

[JadePrince]

I just want to drop in and clarify that bisexual people can and do have attraction for trans/non-binary gendered people. I keep seeing people say the distinction between pan and bi is that pansexual people are attracted to people regardless of gender (true) and bisexual people are only attracted to cis men and cis women (NOT true). 

 

The most common/accepted definition (according to every major bisexual organization) is that bisexual people are attracted to 'same and different' genders than their own. This includes trans and non-binary identified folks. 

 

The difference between bi and pan is generally accepted to be that bisexual people might experience their attraction to different genders differently (ie: more attracted to women than to men, or maybe they like punk girls but also boys-next-door, or maybe they think all boys are cute, but are pickier with what type of girls they like), where pansexual people experience attraction regardless of gender or are indifferent to gender as a source of attraction entirely (ie: their attractions are focused on other things than gender primarily).

 

I feel like bisexual fits me best because, though I experience attraction/have dated men and women, I tend to crush more on girls and am much more selective about what types of men I find attractive.

 

Aaaanyway, just thought that was important to clarify. 

 

TL;DR: Being bisexual doesn't mean you won't date trans/NB people!!

[Lilaeth]

but ...but the character that gave me so many feelings and inspired and keep inspire me so much, will not be an LI and might even not be in inqui (i hate this thought) no matter how great and amazing the game is going to be !!! thats why i said i needed this more DA2 and i'll cannot help but feel betrayed ...i already regretted the love cut scenes that were more explicit in origin which i needed so bad with him x( (just imagine how good they could have been with the much better resolutions and designs) 

The thing is, it's not a romance game, it's an adventure game, so if they run short of time, adventure content will always be prioritised over romances.

[veeia]

Yes, thanks for that JadePrince! That's definitely something I am frustrated with seeing people say.

 

...to be honest, I find it difficult to find a large meaningful difference between bi & pan, but I think the different labels are important to people for different reasons that I don't want to police... so while I obviously would never say "it's the same thing!", when I see people trying to make distinctions like "bisexuals are bff with gender binaries", I get frustrated. 

[Ianamus]

I just want to drop in and clarify that bisexual people can and do have attraction for trans/non-binary gendered people. I keep seeing people say the distinction between pan and bi is that pansexual people are attracted to people regardless of gender (true) and bisexual people are only attracted to cis men and cis women (NOT true). 

 

The most common/accepted definition (according to every major bisexual organization) is that bisexual people are attracted to 'same and different' genders than their own. This includes trans and non-binary identified folks. 

 

The difference between bi and pan is generally accepted to be that bisexual people might experience their attraction to different genders differently (ie: more attracted to women than to men, or maybe they like punk girls but also boys-next-door, or maybe they think all boys are cute, but are pickier with what type of girls they like), where pansexual people experience attraction regardless of gender or are indifferent to gender as a source of attraction entirely (ie: their attractions are focused on other things than gender primarily).

 

I feel like bisexual fits me best because, though I experience attraction/have dated men and women, I tend to crush more on girls and am much more selective about what types of men I find attractive.

 

Aaaanyway, just thought that was important to clarify. 

 

TL;DR: Being bisexual doesn't mean you won't date trans/NB people!!

 

But how do you define attraction to transgender/non-binary people?

 

I'm bisexual and I have found myself attracted to transgender people in the past, but I found them attractive as the gender they physically resembled, not necessarily the gender they identified as.

 

In order to be counted as attracted to them do you have to find them attractive as a transgender person rather than as male or female? A straight woman could very well find a trans man attractive.

 

I guess I just don't really understand what you mean about bisexuals possibly being interested in transgender and non binary people. The way I see bisexuality they could be, but said attraction will always be a result of their attraction to male-ness and female-ness, so it's not so much an attraction to non-binary people but the masculine and feminine traits they posses. If somebody is attracted to someone without male or female factoring into it at all then they are pansexual.

 

So is this bisexual attraction to non-binary people really any different than a straight woman being attracted to a trans gender man? I don't think it is.  It's still fundamentally just attraction to masculinity and femininity.

[Natashina]

I'm glad I live in an era where sexuality is able to be discussed so open and freely.  However, I'd be lying if I didn't say that this all is very confusing, and I've been in the LGBT community since I was 15 (almost 20 years.)   I figure at this point, I'll absorb and learn, but I think I'm going to hold off on claiming any sort of real definition on most of the terms.  For now, I guess I'll keep referring to myself as a bisexual because it's a little less confusing to me and others.

 

In my past, I've dated a pre-OP transgendered woman that still retained much of her masculine looks.  I've dated women that were just drop dead gorgeous in very feminine ways, one of which was a former punk model.  I've dated effeminate straight and bi men; more traditionally masculine men that were bisexual .  I've dated folks that considered themselves gender queer.   Now I'm married to a straight man that certainly looks and sounds like one.  Tall, deep voiced, and identifies 100% as male.  I know I'm comfortable with whatever my sexuality is, and I'm generally happy with who I am.  

 

I'll keep learning and keep reading.  I have truly enjoyed the depth of this conversation.  It's rare on any forum, especially a video game one, to be able to experience folks being so open and honest.   Occasionally though, you guys make my head swim a little.  I love it, because it gives me a chance to think and examine the world around me.  

 

Oh and GenderBread was truly awesome.  Thanks for putting that up!

[karushna5]

Attraction and gender presentation vs private bits is something that always confused me. I am demisexual and mostly homoromantic, I identify (mostly) as a lesbian. But something that always makes me twist my cap in processing my own sexuality is, it seems more based on revulsion than attraction. I can't handle certain anatomy, so I can date a Trans man, date someone gender fluid(thus I am not a lesbian), but I can't date a Cis Man or a Trans woman.

 

I am starting to feel that makes me Bi, but whenever I talk to other lesbians about it, many feel the same way, although certainly not all. It just feels very strange that a sexuality can be based on what you are not, rather than what you are.

[phantomrachie]

The acronym is trying to cover all different gender identities and sexual identities... and it just ends up being a big, jumbled mess. I still use the term 'LGBT' but I refuse to add any of the subsequent characters solely because I can barely remember half of them and nobody would know what I was talking about. 

 

My catch-all is the Genderbread person: http://itspronounced...ead-person-v2-0

 

It makes a lot more sense to people than a string of twenty characters, and according to my dad they use it a lot where he works (he works at Bank of America and is on the diversity council) to promote diversity and increased understanding. 

 

 

I've been meaning to mention it the forums for awhile now, but never really had the chance to bring it up. It doesn't have a way to specify demisexuality/ grey-A area as far as I'm aware, but it would be difficult to display that on a graph, so I understand why it isn't there. 

 

I really like the way attraction to men and attraction to women are on two different sliders. The biggest flaw of the single slider "sexuality-spectrum" was that it implied that as attraction to one gender went up attraction to the other gender went down, which isn't accurate at all. 

 

I love this, it really highlights that sexual identity and attraction is not as straightforward as people generally think it is.

 

I've always backed the idea that sexaulity can be very fluid, while defining yourself is important, I also think that setting your sexaility in concrete can end up being very damaging.

 

In my experience some of the most homophobic/transphobic people have at some stage experienced a same sex attraction or they worry that a transgendered person will 'trick' them into having a same sex attraction and it freaks them out so they become aggressively anti-genderbread

 

When really, if they considered themselves mostly straight, rather than totally 100% straight then it wouldn't be such an issue.

 

Not just saying that this can happen with straight people, I'm sure it can happen with genderbread, but I just speaking to my experiences. 

[Lady Nuggins]

But how do you define attraction to transgender/non-binary people?

 

I'm bisexual and I have found myself attracted to transgender people in the past, but I found them attractive as the gender they physically resembled, not necessarily the gender they identified as.

 

In order to be counted as attracted to them do you have to find them attractive as a transgender person rather than as male or female? A straight woman could very well find a trans man attractive.

 

I guess I just don't really understand what you mean about bisexuals possibly being interested in transgender and non binary people. The way I see bisexuality they could be, but said attraction will always be a result of their attraction to male-ness and female-ness, so it's not so much an attraction to non-binary people but the masculine and feminine traits they posses. If somebody is attracted to someone without male or female factoring into it at all then they are pansexual.

 

So is this bisexual attraction to non-binary people really any different than a straight woman being attracted to a trans gender man? I don't think it is.  It's still fundamentally just attraction to masculinity and femininity.

 

Yeah, and I think we need to be careful about treating trans folks as a completely separate gender instead of simply the gender they identify as.  

 

Gender presentation is an interesting one, though.  There are plenty of people who identify as nonbinary, genderfluid, or androgyne.  There are people who would be into dating a man or a woman, but not someone who switches back and forth between the two, or presents as something in between.  

 

Basically, I appreciate how the Genderbread diagram up there has two separate sliders for masculine and feminine, rather than putting them on opposite ends of a single slider.  

[Hellion Rex]

I've been reading for awhile and I think it's time for me to open up. I know some people will see me differently but I'm comfortable enough now with who I am to accept it.

There isn't just one label for a transgender woman or man, we can all be so different and have different ways in which we live our lives. I was in a place where I couldn't stand the thought of living as a male any longer, so I had no choice but to go through the difficult process of transitioning and surgeries. I've been female for six years which has finally given me peace and made me feel whole. I'm lucky in many ways as I was able to keep my job which can be difficult, I present female and can go out without makeup and still be recognized as female. The price was high for this ability as I've been though two facial feminizing surgeries along with the gender reassignment surgeries. The cost to be able to enjoy my life was almost unbearable, the loss of family, friends and just the expense. It can be frustrating knowing that the people I work with can accept me and be happy for me but family and old friends can't.

The conversation has been about where trans people fit in, for me I'm lesbian and I tell women that I meet my history before we become involved and I have been hurt by being rejected due to not being CIS. Word has gotten around in the circles that I run in, so having uncomfortable conversations with potential lovers hasn't been needed for the most part anymore. I've met many women that see me for who I am now and make me feel that I'm no different than they are, which is a wonderful feeling.

I know there are people who say how can you modify your body like that and I've even read those comments on these boards, well for one thing it's my body and my decision and also I know that I wouldn't be here writing this now if I didn't. Changing my body to fit my mind has been the best thing I've ever done, I've found happiness which I never experienced before and now I have a woman that cares for me as much as I care for her.

I've seen myself as female for the last six years and just blended in but I'm no longer scared of being labeled as a trans women and am quite proud to be a member of the Trans and Non Binary Group. Hiding from my past has been very frustrating, It's been difficult not being able to discuss subjects for fear of outing myself and I just feel the need to free myself from that.

Thank you for sharing.

[Basement Cat]

I like that GenderBread person. Would it be opposed by the LGBT here?  If not, I may pick that up and use it.

I just say 'the rainbow brigade'. We're always welcoming new members and ready to defend them if need be.

[CuriousArtemis]

The Genderbread diagram is okay, but some aspects still make me uncomfortable. I'm in favor of eschewing labels altogether

[mikeymoonshine]

I have to say I am not a huge fan of labels either. I don't think we can really categorise ourselves perfectly in this way. I am not against people who wish to define themselves or elements of themselves, I am fairly comfortable with the idea that I am male, gay and cis but I don't like that these labels say as much about me as they do. 

 

So yeah, in my opinion you are never going to be able to perfectly categorise everyone.

[aTigerslunch]

I just say 'the rainbow brigade'. We're always welcoming new members and ready to defend them if need be.

   Awesome! Though I dont really play in a "rainbow" myself, I defend those that do.     I hope that isnt used wrongly. I am still learning some of these useable terms.

 

 

Labeling, seems necessary for some, at same time seems demeaning.

[leaguer of one]

I love this, it really highlights that sexual identity and attraction is not as straightforward as people generally think it is.

 

I've always backed the idea that sexaulity can be very fluid, while defining yourself is important, I also think that setting your sexaility in concrete can end up being very damaging.

 

In my experience some of the most homophobic/transphobic people have at some stage experienced a same sex attraction or they worry that a transgendered person will 'trick' them into having a same sex attraction and it freaks them out so they become aggressively anti-genderbread

 

When really, if they considered themselves mostly straight, rather than totally 100% straight then it wouldn't be such an issue.

 

Not just saying that this can happen with straight people, I'm sure it can happen with genderbread, but I just speaking to my experiences. 

But we have no control of sexuality. Just gender identity. Your point is only about gender identity. Added, a straight person is attracted to anything that looks like the sex they are attracted to. A straight male will be attracted to anything that looks like a woman even if it's not really a woman. Alot of people who are straight don't understand this and get confused and panic about it.

[leaguer of one]

What would you call it?

[RevilFox]

I'm trying to figure out how offended I am by this. All I know for sure is that it's a non-zero amount.