240 réponses à ce sujet

[MrZork]

I agree that, for Aeilund, it would be a huge task to redesign encounters to accommodate henchmen (or other associates) in a challenge- and XP-neutral way. I was thinking more in terms of the approach one might take to mod-making in general, where I think players will prefer being able to play with the style they most enjoy without feeling like they are being penalized for doing something that the module author allows.

 

Regarding fugue stores: The particular items available in Careena aren't relevant to the point. I just thought it was an interesting approach to changing that aspect of game play. Lots of players treat an encounter where the PC dies trivially - basically as a scouting mission - knowing that there is no incentive (in terms of game mechanics) not to simply reload and a moderate disincentive to respawn. For instance, for a single player in the OC, assuming the player saves somewhat regularly, is there any reason the player is likely to respawn? Having some items available only after a respawn gives the mod-maker another way to tweak incentives and possibly affect how people play. Obviously, there are limits to the approach and possibly perverse incentives as well. E.g., some scripting would be needed to change items available if the PC dies more than once, if that's desired. Does it make sense for the PC to accumulate lots of gold and then die? Etc.

[MagicalMaster]

I agree that, for Aeilund, it would be a huge task to redesign encounters to accommodate henchmen (or other associates) in a challenge- and XP-neutral way. I was thinking more in terms of the approach one might take to mod-making in general, where I think players will prefer being able to play with the style they most enjoy without feeling like they are being penalized for doing something that the module author allows.

 

Fair enough.  Perhaps make a different thread to discuss this?  Would rather not clutter this one up -- but I do find what you're saying interesting (even if I disagree with a lot of it).

[MrZork]

Out of curiosity, did the subrace system in Aielund work? I seem to recall that it was mentioned in one of the walkthroughs, but I don't recall ever seeing it in action. At least, my "Dwarf-Wild" barbarian never saw any effect.

[MrZork]

Actually, now checking the walkthrough, I see that it mentions chapter 4, so maybe it is only functional in the later chapters. I would assume most players are continuing their toons from chapter 1+, though.

 

Hmm. Now I see that the OnClientEnter script has the subrace initialization commented out, even in chapter IV part 1. Ah, well.

[werelynx]

How does the upgrade go?

 

Subraces would be nice to add.

 

Hmm, you could keep horses as pseudohorses = phenotype only only like in old CEP modules.

[MagicalMaster]

I've done probably about half the stuff mentioned here -- gotten sidetracked by the ABC, helping BortSonOfBort with Small Village Woes, and some other things.  Will try to get this updated with current progress sometime in the next week or two.

 

What exactly are you proposing in terms of Subraces?  Never really liked myself, to be frank, I already don't like the stat differences that already exist!

 

When you say psuedohorses, you mean the player just can't mount them?  At the moment I've just removed the horses the player would have used and left the mounted NPCs alone.  So you can still see NPCs on them but there's no horses for the player to actually mount.

[werelynx]

Pseudohorses are pre 1.69 horses that had no rules and are basically an alternate phenotype (like CEP flying). They do not have any rules, they are just there.

[MrZork]

It's worth noting

 

Never really liked myself, to be frank, I already don't like the stat differences that already exist!

I have never made much use of subraces, either. They might provide some value in terms of favored class, assuming that actually worked properly. The idea that the most natural class for a wood elf might be ranger or druid or whatever instead of wizard has an appeal to me.

 

The subrace ability stat increases are usually of marginal relevance, though. At least with the subrace approaches I have seen in the normal game engine (not using NWNX, etc.), any ability score change counts toward the cap, so those changes start to lose impact at higher levels and in moderate-or-higher magic environments.

[MagicalMaster]

The subrace ability stat increases are usually of marginal relevance, though. At least with the subrace approaches I have seen in the normal game engine (not using NWNX, etc.), any ability score change counts toward the cap, so those changes start to lose impact at higher levels and in moderate-or-higher magic environments.

 

True enough.  So basically, if you implement them well the stat changes are problematic, if you implement them poorly then the stat changes are counter-productive.

[MrZork]

I probably missed an earlier discussion where the racial ability stat changes were discussed. Why are the +2 to one ability and -2 to another for various races problematic? (I'm not saying that they aren't; there are trade-offs associated with almost every game feature. I am just curious.)

[MagicalMaster]

I probably missed an earlier discussion where the racial ability stat changes were discussed. Why are the +2 to one ability and -2 to another for various races problematic? (I'm not saying that they aren't; there are trade-offs associated with almost every game feature. I am just curious.)

 

The problem of feeling obliged to play a certain race due to power instead of the race you want to play.  Something like 1 AC and 1 AB is equivalent to 10-15% more damage dealt and 10-15% less damage taken, for example.  Already happens for the original races and then people are like "Ha!  Let's make a Dwarf subrace that gives 2 strength/2 con in exchange for a 2 wis and further 2 cha penalty!" (so +2 str/+4 con for -2 wis/-4 cha) or something.

[werelynx]

What about Dwarf subrace that gives -2CON for +2CHA. Hah.

[MrZork]

What about Dwarf subrace that gives -2CON for +2CHA. Hah.

I would finally be able to get my Sorc / Pally / DD smite build off the ground! ;-)

[Jugonshi]

Are you planning to continue using EMS?

 

While there are a lot of good modifications, EMS causes, unfortunately, a lot of problems, too.

 

IIRC, EMS disables spell sequencer items and "immune to spells of level X or lower" properties. So, some of the magic items currently available in the Saga are almost completely useless. Namely, some of the robes you can buy at the university, the belt you can get from Terinus the Black, and a shield you can gain from the riddling Prismatic Dragon.

 

 

AFAIK EMS is not maintained nor updated anymore. If you can instead use the newest version of PRC (3.5), that will be a great improvement. PRC is, like EMS, using 3.5e version of Heal and Greater Restoration spells. Also, If an appropriate switch is set PRC emulates PnP version of Tensor's Transformation.

 

The Saga is full of caster-friendly magic items. So, playing caster/warrior type prestige class in the Saga, using PRC prestige classes, will be fun.

 

I personally tried to apply PRC into the series but failed as the Saga is using CEP 2.2 (2.4?) and PRC module updater is only supporting CEP 2.0.

 

 

In regard to the Potion of Epic Healing. IIRC it stopped working at Act 3 Part 4. It never healed any HPs at all. If you continue using EMS (or PRC), you may simply change it into Portion of Greater Restoration with higher caster level.

[MagicalMaster]

Are you planning to continue using EMS?

 

While there are a lot of good modifications, EMS causes, unfortunately, a lot of problems, too.

 

Most likely.  EMS definitely has some problems (like Stoneskin giving permanent critical immunity against enemies with +5 weapons or better, Premonition being 70% physical immunity at level 35, etc) but would probably focus on just tweaking those if necessary.  Things like the auto empower/maximize are interesting and it also actually makes spells like Meteor Swarm worth using instead of spamming IGMS.

 

I'd never use EMS in a module from scratch, mind you, would simply adjust the spells myself (which I've done elsewhere)...but given that it's already in Aielund...

 

IIRC, EMS disables spell sequencer items and "immune to spells of level X or lower" properties. So, some of the magic items currently available in the Saga are almost completely useless. Namely, some of the robes you can buy at the university, the belt you can get from Terinus the Black, and a shield you can gain from the riddling Prismatic Dragon.

 

Disables sequencers, yes, but hadn't heard about the Immune to Spells of X level or lower, I'll look into that.

 

In regard to the Potion of Epic Healing. IIRC it stopped working at Act 3 Part 4. It never healed any HPs at all. If you continue using EMS (or PRC), you may simply change it into Portion of Greater Restoration with higher caster level.

 

That's strange, hadn't heard of that happening.  That said, I already had several improvements to that potion to fix some issues I saw.

 

AFAIK EMS is not maintained nor updated anymore. If you can instead use the newest version of PRC (3.5), that will be a great improvement. PRC is, like EMS, using 3.5e version of Heal and Greater Restoration spells. Also, If an appropriate switch is set PRC emulates PnP version of Tensor's Transformation.

 

Every time I've looked at PRC in the past it's just been ridiculously overpowered.  If you have a current link to the changes/features of 3.5 I can take a long at it but the odds of trying to incorporate that into Aielund are pretty low.

[Jugonshi]

Most likely.  EMS definitely has some problems (like Stoneskin giving permanent critical immunity against enemies with +5 weapons or better, Premonition being 70% physical immunity at level 35, etc) but would probably focus on just tweaking those if necessary.  Things like the auto empower/maximize are interesting and it also actually makes spells like Meteor Swarm worth using instead of spamming IGMS.

 

I'd never use EMS in a module from scratch, mind you, would simply adjust the spells myself (which I've done elsewhere)...but given that it's already in Aielund...

 

I love and hate EMS. Most of the modifications are really good. But aside from those problems, there is a matter of inconvenience. Unfortunately, many (all?) of the modifications made by EMS are not reflected in in-game descriptions. And the attached text file is somewhat vague and slightly outdated. It is often hard to ascertain how a spell actually works in current environment.

 

 

Disables sequencers, yes, but hadn't heard about the Immune to Spells of X level or lower, I'll look into that.

 

Most players just did not notice, I guess. At the time when the PC gains the Terinus's belt, he is already at epic level and thus, L6 or lower spells are not the most significant dangers anymore. Also, the shield is just one of the choices. I found this aspect when I played a Shifter in the Aielund Saga. Rakshasa form did not prevent any of the spells (it is meant to be immune to spells of 8th level or lower). Then, I have actually tested the belt and the shield in the game. They did not work. IIRC Globe of Invulnerability spells did not work either.

 

 

Every time I've looked at PRC in the past it's just been ridiculously overpowered.  If you have a current link to the changes/features of 3.5 I can take a long at it but the odds of trying to incorporate that into Aielund are pretty low.

 

The current version (3.5) of PRC is found here.

 

http://neverwinterva...ms-prc-pack-v35

 

And the online manual is here.

 

http://www.athasreborn.com/prc/manual/

 

In regard to being overpowered, many of the aspects can be set by switches. And by enabling racial HDs and LA emulation, monster races does not automatically become more powerful than basic races. There are switches for modifying some spells, too.

 

I guess a module builder can make it so that certain switches are set at the beginning of the modules. Or, at least, you can include a customized personal_switch.2da file in the zip file and encourage players to import that via PRC options menu.

 

Some of the switches can be used for changing how some type of items work. My favorite one is to emulate DnD 3.5e magic staff. A PC can use his caster level and spellcasting stat modifier for using a magic staff. That will largely improve the value of some items in the Aielund Saga. Usually, magical staffs are not as useful as wands as a PC should equip it as a weapon.

 

If you are interested in it, see this thread in PRC site for how to make personal switch file.

 

http://prc.athasrebo...opic,309.0.html

 

Another concern may be item creations and epic spells. But they costs both XPs and GPs to create or reserch. So, a PC does not level up as fast as usual if he makes too many items or research powerful epic spells. Also, unless the player use cheat code for giving millions of golds, a PC cannot make game-breaking ones.

[Jugonshi]

I forgot to add that I have actually tried to apply PRC into the saga once. First, I have replaced EMS.hak with a blank dummy file. I have also deleted the existing custom talk file from the modules, because PRC module updater cannot auto-merge tlk file of CEP 2.1 or later with PRC custom tlk file. Then used module updater and chose PRC + CEP2 option. It worked with only few problems.

First, the princess, Robert Black & Ronan lost their custom portraits. I supporse it was caused by the changing the version of CEP. It did not affect gameplay itself but as I am a heterosexual male, using romance dialogues against the default bold guy was not so comfortable   

The another problem was that in Act 4 part 3, two of opponents did not drop the appropriate loot when slain. One is the female mage who is supporting King Osric. Another one is the devil who meant to have the amulet to control the Tempest. I had to call the help of the author and use console command to let spawn those items.

Those two were the only conflicts I have noticed. Someone who is good at scripting (I'm not) can easily fix them, I guess.

[MrZork]

Just a quick IMO regarding EMS: I hope that the solution that Savant et alii settled on remains viable. That is, provide a blank EMS hak file so those who prefer the imperfect-but-fairly-well-documented NWN magic system still have that option over the poorly-documented EMS system of magic.

 

EMS suffers from the bane of many alternate magic systems in that it goes well beyond fixing widely agreed-upon bugs and implements someone's personal vision about how magic ought to work in the game. The default NWN magic system has many issues, but I know what they are and I don't have to relearn the game to avoid having unexpected things happen when I cast a spell. A system that fixes inarguable bugs (e.g. the Evaard's size bug or the Terrifying Rage fear-immunity bug) would be welcome. I would hope that Aielund keeps changes beyond that scope as optional.

[MrZork]

MM, I don't know if you are still working on an Aielund update, but a friend and I have been (slowly) replaying it recently and I ran across another little improvement I previously made in Act II (and maybe did the same thing later, but I haven't gotten there again on this run yet).

 

Auberon (and maybe others like the elves) will recharge magic items via dialog options. But, the dialog isn't especially flexible and doesn't account for some items the PC may want to recharge (and somewhat frustratingly if the PC has taken the craft wand feat). I whipped up a script that checks the PCs inventory for rechargeable items and dynamically adds the option to recharge them to the dialog. (I don't recall that there are any uber items with only a few charges that Savant intended to exclude from the dialog, but my script accommodates such items if they have a NONRECHARGABLE local set on them.)

 

Anyway, not a major change or anything, but a nice one, IMO. When I ran across this again the other day, I thought it might be of interest here. I have added a few comments to the include file and I think I have successfully exported the needed resources into this ERF file. There is a replacement dialog for Auberon in the ERF which (at least to my testing) works. There is also a ChargeMerch.dlg which is pruned down to just the recharging branch for easy testing and for pasting into the dialogs of other NPCs who offer the service.

[icywind1980]

Hi everyone! On the old vault, there was a really awesome player made walk through for The Aielund Saga. Does anyone still have that they could send to me, or post to the new vault?

[Bawookles]

Monk gloves don't seem to get past damage reduction. I've got the gloves you get from the Etherial Dragon, the +10 gloves with 2d12 magic damage. Technically, those gloves should get past anything with damage reduction of +10 or lower, but they are not. Is this a bug? I thought whatever enchantment you had on gloves was what gets past damage reduction, not whatever your ki level is for your monk?

[MrZork]

What area are you trying them out in and which creature has DR that the gloves are not getting you past?

[Bawookles]

What area are you trying them out in and which creature has DR that the gloves are not getting you past?

 

It's in Twilight against the Glacial Juggernauts. I'm attacking with the +10 gloves (with 2d12 magical damage) that you get from the Etherial Dragon, the Juggernauts reduce 15 points of that damage. Yet, Robert Black is hitting them with Eldritch, the +7 mace, and he's seeing no damage reduction. So, something isn't right there as both the mace and the monk's fists are doing bludgeoning damage, yet, what should be a +10 weapon isn't getting through the Juggernaut's DR but a +7 mace is. Either there is something buggy in my game system or else Aielund uses a monk's ki factor for getting through DR, rather than a glove's enhancement. It kinda blows.

[MagicalMaster]

Glacial Juggernauts simply have 15 RESISTANCE (not reduction) to all physical damage.  Every melee hit simply does 15 damage less, period.

 

Why do you think Robert Black isn't being affected by it?

[Bawookles]

Glacial Juggernauts simply have 15 RESISTANCE (not reduction) to all physical damage.  Every melee hit simply does 15 damage less, period.

 

Why do you think Robert Black isn't being affected by it?

 

 Well, I'm looking at the damage screen scroll by and whenever Robert Black does damage, it just says like "25 damage (13 magical)" and doesn't say "Glacial Juggernaut ignored 15 damage" like it does whenever my monk PC does damage. So I assumed Robert Black wasn't getting any resistance. Maybe the damage screen doesn't show that stat for a NPC? Any rate, good to know that my game isn't buggy or something. Thanks for the info.