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[LankyGrandpa]

I think Loghain had a rather fitting ending in DA:I if he died. He committed such atrocities in DA:O (Abandoning the Wardens and Cailan at Ostagar, selling the elves as slaves to Tevinter, and poisoning of Arl Eamon). However, he seemed to show genuine guilt if the Warden chose to spare him. In DA:I, he's shown as having committed a decade to the Grey Wardens, and was actively seeking to cure the Calling, defying his orders and becoming a wanted man. His sacrifice in DA:I was a heroic ending and would still be a fitting ending to his story, regardless of whether he appears in DA4.

[sylvanaerie]

I think Loghain had a rather fitting ending in DA:I if he died. He committed such atrocities in DA:O (Abandoning the Wardens and Cailan at Ostagar, selling the elves as slaves to Tevinter, and poisoning of Arl Eamon). However, he seemed to show genuine guilt if the Warden chose to spare him. In DA:I, he's shown as having committed a decade to the Grey Wardens, and was actively seeking to cure the Calling, defying his orders and becoming a wanted man. His sacrifice in DA:I was a heroic ending and would still be a fitting ending to his story, regardless of whether he appears in DA4.

 

I have to agree, I preferred this ending for him rather than sacrificing him to the Archdemon when I did let him live.  His response to Nightmare in the Fade is the best of all three of the 'guest warden' companions.  This is a man who has faced his demons and learned to live with the atrocities he committed.  He is no longer tormented by them, or at least seems to be mostly at peace with what he did.  Now that's true Redemption!  Excellent character arc.

[rublie]

In my original play through, I kept Loghain alive as I saw no logic in killing him at that very moment when his skills could have been put to use during the Blight. What Anora said made sense - if he survived the Joining, we'd have another Grey Warden to add to the very small group of surviving Wardens who were crucial to ending the Blight, and if not we'd have our revenge against him. We could have always executed him once the Blight was over, I just didn't think his fate was relevant at that time.

 

But then Alistair started being a big baby about it, threatening to leave which really pissed me off. I was trying to save Fereldan at a time of crisis and he was having a hissy fit. I get that Loghain did a lot of shitty things to hurt Alistair, such as letting Duncan and all the other Wardens (who were like Alistair's only real family) die, and he may have even been responsible for the Blight becoming as bad as it did since it was not stopped at Ostagar, but Alistair leaving his group and abandoning his country and everything he's worked for over revenge wouldn't accomplish anything. He didn't even bother to stick around to see that Loghain would suffer the consequences for his actions later on. Dick move. Also while playing, I never really jumped straight to the conclusion that Loghain abandoned Cailan just to spite him or to play the villain, I always assumed it was for a strategical reason, and that we had yet to know the full story about what happened.

 

I was pretty darn depressed that Alistair left, as i kinda fell inlove with him as soon as I met him and had worked hard to get to where I was in my relationship with him, and then he just threw it all away, even after telling me i was the love of his life, over someone like Loghain (btw I am fully aware that this is just a game). I was heartbroken... It was a dark time for me... So when I got to the Keep I ended up changing my decision to allow Alistair to kill Loghain and stay with me as a Grey Warden, in order to get the most out of him for when I played Inquisition. Although I have to say, deep down I still stand by my original choice. We needed all the help we could get and I didn't care where it came from.

[Qun00]

I personally believe that a great character like Loghain deserves a better ending than a dog's death.

But I refuse to give a cold, unscrupulous, greedy woman like Anora the tiniest bit of power.

If I could have Alistair rule alone AND spare Loghain, I would.

[sylvanaerie]

I personally believe that a great character like Loghain deserves a better ending than a dog's death.

But I refuse to give a cold, unscrupulous, greedy woman like Anora the tiniest bit of power.

If I could have Alistair rule alone AND spare Loghain, I would.

 

You can always marry Alistair to Anora (he has to be hardened if you're sparing Loghain) and if he's hardened, he won't take any of her guff, becoming a strong, good king and learns how to rule well.  It's actually a good ending for Ferelden.  Not so great for them, but good for Ferelden.

[Qun00]

One of the determining factors in redemption is remorse, and even after watching videos with the full dialogue between him and the Warden as well as companions I honestly can't tell.

In half the time he talks about the weight of what he's done and in the other he goes on and on about how absolutely justified his actions were.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

One of the determining factors in redemption is remorse, and even after watching videos with the full dialogue between him and the Warden as well as companions I honestly can't tell.

In half the time he talks about the weight of what he's done and in the other he goes on and on about how absolutely justified his actions were.

I don't remember him trying to justify the slavery after being finally taken down, and that is the weightiest thing he's done. Maybe he still thinks some of it's justified but acknowledges that not all of it was? (Probably partially because he has a really good case for Ostagar?)

[Qun00]

I don't remember him trying to justify the slavery after being finally taken down, and that is the weightiest thing he's done. Maybe he still thinks some of it's justified but acknowledges that not all of it was? (Probably partially because he has a really good case for Ostagar?)

3:58

https://youtu.be/qiudDPK6CTE

On a side note, the only thing that is never addressed is framing the wardens. For a man that talks about living with the consequences, he evaded in a most cowardly way.

He even likes it if you call him a slaver or anything else horrible. He wants to be confronted with it, but I also don't seem him trying to justify anything either. He just tells your Warden the truth of why he did what he did, and why he felt it was the right thing to do at the moment he did it. He never claims he was right or wrong, but did what had to be done as is his way of dealing with things and always has been.

That was your interpretation? He found it hilarious.

His line right before that dialogue option comes up is "When you run out of common insults, you can try elven. I won't understand it but I promise to be offended nonetheless."

As for justifying his actions, well... he does it everytime someone asks him about it.

[Qun00]

As you said, Loghain is too proud.

His regret revolves around the failure rather than the thought that he shouldn't have done it in the first place.

When it comes down to it, the player's motivation to give Loghain a second chance is never based on an alleged heartfelt remorse.

The players who do it are those who believe he was right. Those who don't have little reason not to axe him right away.

As for the elves, I consider Loghain's answer to be more of a counter to your accusation than the actual reason why he did it. Kinda like "If you care about them so much, you shouldn't have interfered!"

It was mostly about what he was getting in exchange for that deal.

[Illegitimus]

Yes, Loghain should live.

 

No, he didn't betray Cailan, the army, or the Wardens at Ostagar.

 

The Demon tries to tell you that Eamon will die without her magic keeping him alive. Kill her and you kill Eamon, essentially. But kill her and Eamon's still locked in a coma, showing proof that the poison was meant to simply incapacitate, not kill.

 

 

That doesn't follow.  He would have had plenty of time to excrete the poison while the demon was keeping him alive.  And without the demon the coma itself will eventually kill him if he doesn't revive just because it's not like he's got an IV.  

[Yaroub]

Burn him with righteous fire.

 

Killing him was one of my favorite moments in the game.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

3:58



On a side note, the only thing that is never addressed is framing the wardens. For a man that talks about living with the consequences, he evaded in a most cowardly way.


That was your interpretation? He found it hilarious.

His line right before that dialogue option comes up is "When you run out of common insults, you can try elven. I won't understand it but I promise to be offended nonetheless."

As for justifying his actions, well... he does it everytime someone asks him about it.

Missed that bit in-game, thank you.

 

The thing about his self-justification is that a lot of it is hard to argue against. If I thought in the absence of having gotten that line that the slavery would be the thing he'd regret, that's because that's the one I see the least justification for. (But then when I hear his justification it does seem like something that would make sense if you're sufficiently desperate.)

 

But then while I think those arguments make sense, I'm not the one trying to argue them to my own conscience after someone who (if the player controlling them is doing a Paragon run) is a lot less morally grey than me succeeded where I failed, thus proving that all the arguably-evil things I did with good intentions were completely pointless. Which probably explains the willingness to do the US in both his Warden appearances.

[Aren]

 

3) If the above two reasons haven't convinced you yet, then keep him alive to let him take the final blow to the Arch Demon and let him die instead of you or Alistair (ofcourse this only applies if you decide not to have the Old God baby with Morrigan).

A cake for the AD? Yes!

If only Duncan had the courtesy to reveal this to Alistair (6th month to do it) o Riordan to the PC in Eamon estate (several weeks to do so) Loghain as the AD cake would have been canon for everyone even AListair.

So yes both

He should live and then die.

[Aren]

how many are dead at Ostagar,1000-2000 soldiers?

considered that the horde was about 8000-10000 darkspawn no more,it make sense.

[Vanalia]

Well, in my first playthrough it seemed there was no other way to keep Alistair, so I executed Loghain. I didn't really liked him at that time. And I had a romance with Alistair and I wanted my happy-queen-ending 

 

Because of that choice I didn't see Loghain in DA:I, I got Stroud, which I barely remembered

Spoiler

and whom I sacrificed with no hesitation because of that.

 

But I was curious and I watched some scenes with Loghain in DA:I on youtube, and he started to grow on me. Then I really wished to know more about him and ordered the book (Stolen throne, didn't receive it yet!) and I think that next time I play to DA:O I will keep him alive, because he seems to be an interesting character. And misunderstood.

 

I have a question: when we see pictures of old Maric, he seems really old, with a white beard, etc... but Loghain has the same age, right? but he looks much younger than Maric and still has is nice long black hair.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, in my first playthrough it seemed there was no other way to keep Alistair, so I executed Loghain. I didn't really liked him at that time. And I had a romance with Alistair and I wanted my happy-queen-ending 

 

Because of that choice I didn't see Loghain in DA:I, I got Stroud, which I barely remembered

Spoiler

and whom I sacrificed with no hesitation because of that.

 

But I was curious and I watched some scenes with Loghain in DA:I on youtube, and he started to grow on me. Then I really wished to know more about him and ordered the book (Stolen throne, didn't receive it yet!) and I think that next time I play to DA:O I will keep him alive, because he seems to be an interesting character. And misunderstood.

 

I have a question: when we see pictures of old Maric, he seems really old, with a white beard, etc... but Loghain has the same age, right? but he looks much younger than Maric and still has is nice long black hair.

Maric's hair looked more light-blond to me. Or did you mean in the comic? Because he's just been in a crappy prison (possibly literally) and used for blood magic experiments where Loghain has been living in the mansion of Gwaren, and then in the palace, and then in a Grey Warden compound. Not to mention that Loghain was probably getting decent food and has been allowed or encouraged (depending on his current digs) to continue whatever workout regimen made him capable of taking on the Orlesians and subsequently the Warden or his Champion. It's really no surprise that Loghain looks better than Maric does.

[Vanalia]

I didn't know about the prison and the experiments. Is the comic interesting? 

 

I saw Maric in the game "Heroes of Dragon age" looking old and with grey hair, that's why.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I didn't know about the prison and the experiments. Is the comic interesting? 

 

I saw Maric in the game "Heroes of Dragon age" looking old and with grey hair, that's why.

Haven't read it. Drawing from the wiki.

 

Though it is interesting that Maric's official hair color does in fact seem to be grey now where it was light blond before.

[Vlada47]

 

 

considered that the horde was about 8000-10000 darkspawn no more,it make sense.

 

Really?  I always thought a darkspawn horde that emerges during the Blight is supposed be pretty much something like Mordor's army from LOTR universe - unless you have HUGE army with superior equipment (like Numenor's fleet at the end of second age or something like that), they just roll over you... 100s of thousands individual darkspawn at least.

 

As for Loghain... I consider him being kinda tragic character. He does everything to secure Ferelden's independence from Orlais, which is understandable, when considering his major actions and work in Maric's rebellion. But he does more things as his paranoia grows that are detrimental to dealing with current situation. If he really wanted to save Cailan at Ostagar, he would just call bullshit on his plans there and wait for more forces (like Eamon's) before tackling the horde given he's supposed be this brilliant general (and I believe he was). My canon Warden is obviously angry to some extent at Loghain, but he is able to see past it, if it helps with the situation now. I think it's useful to use him as a Grey Warden, since there are only three others before battle of Denerim, but it kinda boils down to choice between having (unhardened) Alistair do what we need from him and having one extra Grey Warden soldier (I think Loghain would be most useful in commanding role, but I'm certainly not gonna give it to him after all the **** he's done). I also wasn't too happy with the scene, where you chop of his head like 3 feets from Anora... couldn't we... you know... bring this somewhere behind the wall, so she doesn't have to see this? 

[Mike3207]

 

how many are dead at Ostagar,1000-2000 soldiers?

considered that the horde was about 8000-10000 darkspawn no more,it make sense.

 

We don't have hard numbers for either side that I'm aware of. Duncan tells the PC Warden-"I think that there are at least ten thousand darkspawn. They have to outnumber us by now."  Implied is that both forces are around the ten thousand number pre battle, but there's not telling how many darkspawn were brought up after the statement was made.Duncan's estimate could also be way off, at least on the darkspawn estimate.

[Vanalia]

 I also wasn't too happy with the scene, where you chop of his head like 3 feets from Anora... couldn't we... you know... bring this somewhere behind the wall, so she doesn't have to see this? 

 

I thought the same... even if I executed him and thought he deserved it, Anora didn't have to see this... at least not this way.