3206 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadowLordXII]

An option to exile or imprison Loghain would be interesting options. But since the game railroads us into choosing between dead Loghain and warden Loghain, I've more often chosen dead Loghain.

 

I've mentioned this before, but the whole situation surrounding Riorden suggesting that Loghain become a warden just appears contrived.

 

1) Even though you and Alistair have only been wardens for less than a year and have largely been by themselves, Riorden just assumed that they knew about the Archdemon and doesn't realize the flaw of his logic until Redcliffe. Why not take Alistair and the Warden aside and tell them just in case and make his case for having more wardens more plausible?

 

2) How does Anora know about the Joining and it's lethality? Isn't that something that people outside of the order aren't supposed to know about? Who would have told Anora? Especially considering that wardens have only recently been brought back into Ferelden and only had a few dozen wardens at most, I doubt that any of them would have blabbed to anyone outside of the order.

 

3) Why does it have to be Loghain? There are at least a few dozen knights and your own companions as candidates for the Joining. Why not recruit them? Or does Riorden only have enough Joining Juice for one person?

 

4) How does Riorden know that Loghain would be a good warden? Considering that Loghain just spent the past year handing Ferelden to the darkspawn on a silver platter due to his own paranoia, he doesn't exactly seem like the ideal warden. Pragmatic and ruthless doesn't automatically equal effective and useful as Loghain himself clearly demonstrates as he continually dig a metaphorical ditch that he only kept making deeper.

 

So with this in mind, I usually kill him. An argument can be made for sparing Loghain or even recruiting him. But it's not an argument that would be supported by the events of the game.

[Ribosome]

Those are Grey Warden secrets, right? Amazing how they keep those so secretive or so long; especially with people like Anora who blurt out during the Landsmeet that the joining is often fatal. How she came to know about that I have no idea but now the whole courtroom knows.

Funny you mention this. This same thing occurs when Hawke and Anders first meet.

"I heard joining the Wardens was for life", Hawke comments

Pretty appalling.

[Shadow Fox]

Well, when lolCailan is your king, you can't have the nice things.

 

Still good enough to liberate his country from the Orlesian empire.

And then nearly gave it to the Darkspawn because he hates the Wardens and has the political skills of an angry bull.

 

At least  Cailan wasn't willing to see his country burned before accepting aid because of a grudge unlike Lolghain.

[Althix]

3) Why does it have to be Loghain? 

well. in DAO all Wardens are sentenced to death. So in a way there is little choice.

So recruits are expendable. Besides he is a general after all. Good addition.

[congokong]

Riordan chooses Loghain and not just random knights because he knows it's a punishment too. Look how he and Duncan act. All somber and miserable like. Same with Stroud. These guys are a grim bunch.

 

Duncan hated being recruited in the books.. and tried to escape multiple times. We only meet him in his old age, when he's resigned to his crappy job.

 

All the fight was kicked out of Duncah, huh? I never liked him anyway. He was a greater good opportunist; taking advantage of people in bad situations and keeping the rite of conscription as a backup plan. He can't help a human noble who lost their parents out of the goodness of his heart? Or give the cure to a sick dalish elf after he smashed the mirror that could cure it? I can't dislike him much for the Magi origin though. The pc is in a prison either way; prison in the tower or the Grey Wardens. I haven't done the other 3 origins but I'm sure he does something sleazy.

 

Riordan should've pulled Alistair to the side once he began protesting Loghain becoming a warden and said, "This is worse than death, trust me. Trust me." 

[Shadow Fox]

All the fight was kicked out of Duncah, huh? I never liked him anyway. He was a greater good opportunist; taking advantage of people in bad situations and keeping the rite of conscription as a backup plan. He can't help a human noble who lost their parents out of the goodness of his heart? Or give the cure to a sick dalish elf after he smashed the mirror that could cure it? I can't dislike him much for the Magi origin though. The pc is in a prison either way; prison in the tower or the Grey Wardens. I haven't done the other 3 origins but I'm sure he does something sleazy.

 

Riordan should've pulled Alistair to the side once he began protesting Loghain becoming a warden and said, "This is worse than death, trust me. Trust me."

The Joining is the cure though.

[Ribosome]

Dwarf Noble is erased from the memories and sentenced to die in the Deep Roads for fratricide. Before he/she is carried out to their execution, they are tipped off by Gorim that the wardens are currently there and there's a slight chance that they may catch up to them. Slight odds are better than none. So accepting Duncan's offer to join the order makes sense. What does the former Aeducan commander have to lose?

[congokong]

The magi origin is one of the ones where I feel comfortable being a Warden. He finally gets to run around the countryside and go crazy.. and say things like Anders. "This is why mages are feared!!"

Yup. My psychopath mage celebrated with a killing spree beginning in Ostagar with that guy in the cage. There are a few kills I can't pass up including this one and the Sparta kick to another in a cage over the lava in Awakening.

 

The Joining is the cure though.

So I guess sending the warden home afterwards wasn't an option? I'm a bit confused about this. The mabari hound was also infected with the taint but some flower cured it, right? So was the joining the only way to cure a dalish warden or was Duncan just holding back another secret?

[KaiserShep]

Character origin might play a role in whether or not to spare Loghain. In my personal canon playthrough (male human noble), I had the Warden seperate Loghain's traitorous head from it's shoulders.

 

With that  Warden it was far too personal for Loghain to ever have had a chance of surviving the Landsmeet, short of defeating the Warden. His fate was sealed the moment he yielded. Howe could not have carried out the murder of the Couslands without Loghain's approval and protection. He was an accessory in the murder of that  Warden's family, and honor demanded that he die for it.

 

With other origins however it could be possible that the conflict with Loghain is more political than personal. 

 

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel about it. My human noble has no time for Howe or Loghain, so they both suffer suitable deaths.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

And then nearly gave it to the Darkspawn because he hates the Wardens and has the political skills of an angry bull.

 

Kind of lame to expect Loghain to know the Grey Wardens are necessary to stopping the blight when: (1) there was little evidence that this Darkspawn invasion was truly another blight (no Archdemon presence), (2) the 'Wardens kept that information secret, to the point where most believe the tales of their legend to be mere folklore, and (3) the player himself/herself does not know this fact either until Riordan tells them, making the player "right" only by default.

 

At least Cailan wasn't willing to see his country burned before accepting aid because of a grudge unlike Lolghain.

 

That's because he was secretly gift-wrapping the country for Celene anyway.

 

Loghain was right to be mistrusting of their "aid."

 

He was also right to believe Fereldan could have overcome the Darkspawn by itself.

[Vegeta 77]

keep him alive loghain is a good leader and does what he had to do to try and keep ferelden safe and in war you want people who are loyal to there nation.

[Ribosome]

I need to really look into the party banter more. The game was pretty much over by the time Loghain joined and i didn't take the time to veer off to the side to test off the banter. I'm REALLY curious as to what Loghain has to say to characters like Sten, or especially Zevran (about failing the hit placed on the Warden)

To youtube!

[ReD BaKen9]

I only got one line with Og and Zevran. Both are funny though.

 

edit: For some reason, I thought you said Oghren. Not Sten. Not sure what he says to Sten.

 There you go.

[Ribosome]

I only got one line with Og and Zevran. Both are funny though.

Anything interesting in particular discussed between him and Zev? I'm wildly curious considering Loghain and Howe paid quite the sum to place the hit order on the Warden only for it to fall flat. Extra weight added by the fact that my canon warden romanced him*

*I headcanoned my warden having an extensive romantic history with Tamlen and being forced to slay him completely numbed her heart, so she doesn't take the relationship with Zev seriously. They both agreed that it's strictly physical. Even so, i must know!

[ReD BaKen9]

Those are great, thanks.

No problem, some other great bits of dialogue is if you bring Loghain to the Return to Ostagar DLC. Here is a link if you haven't seen it yet, https://www.youtube....h?v=1n8kt6Ps-tc

 

 

EDIT: https://www.youtube....h?v=qiudDPK6CTE This is also really great, provides insight on things.

[Shadow Fox]

Hell, even without all the in depth political reasons for Loghain's resentment against Orlais, I can sympathize with him just because of his conversation with Dog. lol. He goes into this whole story about how his own mabari when he was a kid was tortured by Orlesians. Just for that alone, they should suffer.

 

Don't take me too seriously, but there is a real side to me that loves tapping into that kind of hatred. Makes the setting fun.

Sure I can sympathize but I don't pretend the man isn't letting personal feelings cloud his judgement.

[Ribosome]

-snip-
 There you go.

THANK YOU.

Sten, you only make yourself a stronger candidate for my favourite character