3201 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Howe's face did not really leave any kind of impression on me when I first saw him. In the human noble background, he seemed like a rather inconsequential figure and so fell into the backdrop as some generic noble mingling in Highever. While his face eventually had the "weasel bastard!" thing going on, it had more to do with how I associated his face with his viperous character. The same goes for Sister/Mother Petrice's sinister looking eyes. Despite Duncan's Obi-Wan-esque character, he actually annoyed me more and more in subsequent playthroughs, and it I wasn't even sure why at first.

[sylvanaerie]

The fact that this thread has gone from a reasonable discussion of his actions to "Eww, Loghain's gross!" tells me pretty much all I need to know about the current crop of DA:O players. The ones who were willing to argue this with some kind of decency and respect to characterization left a long time ago.

 

Seriously?  After all these years what more could be added to a discussion that's been hashed over and over so many times and hasn't already been said?  People are on both sides of this fence and few (if any) are willing to cross over to investigate the other side.  Myself included, I freely admit.  I hate the bastard.  I don't need him to be anything other than "The villain I can relate to"--as opposed to darkspawn which are so completely alien or the Archdemon which seems more a force of nature.  

 

So I don't take it with the seriousness you feel it warrants, but I'm pretty fed up with the same tired old arguments (as no doubt this kind of statement is prompted by your own aggravation).  

 

Doesn't change that I find your attitude of "I'm so much better than you" pretty damn insulting. 

[Jeffonl1]

Ouch

[Shadow Fox]

Burn

[Monica21]

Seriously?  After all these years what more could be added to a discussion that's been hashed over and over so many times and hasn't already been said?  People are on both sides of this fence and few (if any) are willing to cross over to investigate the other side.  Myself included, I freely admit.  I hate the bastard.  I don't need him to be anything other than "The villain I can relate to"--as opposed to darkspawn which are so completely alien or the Archdemon which seems more a force of nature.  

 

So I don't take it with the seriousness you feel it warrants, but I'm pretty fed up with the same tired old arguments (as no doubt this kind of statement is prompted by your own aggravation).  

I killed Loghain my first three playthroughs and didn't think twice about it until I read a thread that consisted of people like Knight of Phoenix arguing why he should be spared. So people can and do change their minds based on new information, or information that can be thought of in a different way. But because this is a Very Important Argument On An Internet Forum though, no one changes their minds.

 

Doesn't change that I find your attitude of "I'm so much better than you" pretty damn insulting.

Eh.. *shrug*

[Monica21]

Ouch

 

Burn

 

No, not really.

[TEWR]

Ah my bad. And you really think Loghain was going to let them live once he got them into custody? Considering his next step is sending an assassin after them?

 

And then there's those idiots in front of Orzammar who call you a traitor. Loghain's going to bring in a couple of labeled traitors to the throne that got the king killed and *not* make an example of them?

 

By that point, they were beginning to form an army. An army that could justifiably be seen as a potential threat to Loghain. Sure, we're forming them for the Blight, but from his perspective it's entirely possible they're forming it to combat him.

 

So at that point, it's a matter of political perseverance and nothing personal. Certainly not his first choice for how to handle things, but regrettably the one he must go with.

 

It'd be different if he had told his soldiers to kill any surviving Wardens on sight and hired assassins right after Ostagar.

 

As for that Orzammar guy who puts the ass in ambassador, yeah he's a dipshit as well. But he's also the guy who can't differentiate the terms Regent and King. Loghain has a history of favoring bluntness over diplomacy, which is probably why he appointed those two soldiers in question (Imrek and the Lothering one). Both are blunt and as a result don't really earn many friends, with Imrek having an added dose of idiotic incompetence.

 

But if they were captured, he might offer them clemency in exchange for loyalty to Ferelden. Some monarchs and people in power will offer such things to people. Maybe. We honestly can't say how it would pan out, but given Loghain's character -- a man who wouldn't want to waste resources where possible -- and how he's not an evil guy, I can't say he'd advocate killing the Wardens.

 

One's Maric's son after all, and though he fears that Orlais has put their hooks into him and will be using him as a puppet king -- to satisfy Fereldan traditionalist nationalism in regards to the Theirin bloodline -- I can't see him as actually going out of his way to kill Alistair if it could be avoided. That is to say, if they were captured.

 

He only signed off on the assassin thing because at the time, it seemed the more prudent course of action. But if he could talk to them, execution wouldn't be the first thing on the table. Not in my mind anyway.

 

Howe on the other hand.... well, if you're a Cousland then you'd definitely be in danger. Course, by the time you're actually taken into custody, Howe is dead.

 

So yay!

[Spectre Impersonator]

Ideally, I'd allow him to live through the Landsmeet, become a Grey Warden and die slaying the Archdemon. However, Alistair will be executed or become a drunk if this happens so forget it. Loghain dies by my hand.

[TEWR]

Ideally, I'd allow him to live through the Landsmeet, become a Grey Warden and die slaying the Archdemon. However, Alistair will be executed or become a drunk if this happens so forget it. Loghain dies by my hand.

 

Could always marry Alistair and Anora.

[Nethalf]

I've played Dragon Age: Origins many times and have always been split on the decision to either let Loghain live or die. What do you guys do with him and why? I'm curious to see both sides opinion and reason behind it.

Ooookay. Eeny, meeny, miny, moe...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I've played Dragon Age: Origins many times and have always been split on the decision to either let Loghain live or die. What do you guys do with him and why? I'm curious to see both sides opinion and reason behind it.

Getting back to the original point? From a metagame perspective, I think there's some rationale for sparing him. On the other hand, despite my trying to point out Loghain's logical reasons for much of what he did (such as they are, since he's not entirely a logical being) most of my characters have killed him for various reasons. (At least twice I have played characters who might have spared him had Alistair not been so inflexible about this, which objectively I think is a pretty crappy reason to kill someone. But hey: it's just a game.)

[Mike3207]

Ideally, I'd allow him to live through the Landsmeet, become a Grey Warden and die slaying the Archdemon. However, Alistair will be executed or become a drunk if this happens so forget it. Loghain dies by my hand.

If you marry a hardened Alistair to Anora, he will announce he'll leave the Wardens to marry Anora after you recruit Loghain.

[Cobra's_back]

I don't hate any of the Awakening characters. All better than DAO imo.

 

I don't hate any of them but Justice creeps me out.

[Cobra's_back]

I don't know if it was because of those few drama classes I took, but my mind changes with most of my characters. Roleplaying. Or method acting, I'll call it. Why does there have to be a set answer for every player? To me, every player holds possibly dozens of characters in their minds and hearts. We are not just one person.

 

Interesting. I try to play evil but then I feel slimed and I quit. I just can't do it unless I'm playing a werewolf or a vamp. I'm thinking of playing a darkspawn.

[Secretlyapotato]

I have him die because I pretty much already know what happens and my canon warden is a girl and it's funner to talk Alistair into Morrigan's ritual. :3 I just say she's pissed off about him selling the elves or whatever.

[sylvanaerie]

I know right now I am not letting him live but I find myself getting bored with the Alistair romance and I feel myself getting ready to go to the dark side. I was thinking a dalish scout elf but really they would kill him for enslaving elves. I'm not really into the dwarves. So I have to have a damn good reason for a mage or especially a cousland to spare him. The problem for me is that I have yet find a character who could justify not killing Loghain especially against Alistair because as much as I can play a character who might use Alistair or find him annoying, I don't feel any character could be okay with trading Alistair for Loghain. As annoying as Alistair is, he's still a decent guy. I know people hate him but I've yet to find a single reason to trade him for Loghain. Even if I loathe the wardens and want them to cease to exist for cursing people with the blight through lies and manipulations I don't feel that there is a single character I could play that would logically be able to pull it off. Furthest I could get is Alistair is a brainwashed dope who whines a lot and can be a bit pathetic at times, but he's not a bad guy. I guess if I could run a male cousland I would let him live for a power grab at the throne but I'm not into playing a male when I can play females. That's part of the problem. The design of the choices is such that playing a female sort of tilts you away from Loghain or at least it does for me. For a male there's grabbing for Anora and not pissing her off with her dad and saying screw it to alistair because he's in the way but the female gains nothing. There is no actual motivation to let him live. If I want the thone, I get it and use Alistair as my puppet (screw what the slides say... I brought us victory against the blight, I avenged my family and I was raised by Bryce Cousland. I can damn well make Alistair my puppet king. And actually, they really should have slides for that... can I change the slides?)

 

I am unsure what the slides say if the Cousland marries an unhardened Alistair and puts him on the throne.  I do know you can make unhardened King Alistair your puppet if you are made Chancellor, but since I don't put him on the throne often and never unhardened, I don't know if you get specific different slides for Queen Cousland.  If I am going to make him king, I don't leave him unhardened, because unhardened King Alistair at the Landsmeet makes me wanna strangle him.

[Douxdel]

I am unsure what the slides say if the Cousland marries an unhardened Alistair and puts him on the throne.  I do know you can make unhardened King Alistair your puppet if you are made Chancellor, but since I don't put him on the throne often and never unhardened, I don't know if you get specific different slides for Queen Cousland.  If I am going to make him king, I don't leave him unhardened, because unhardened King Alistair at the Landsmeet makes me wanna strangle him.

 

My F! Cousland married Alistair and put him on the throne unhardened (I didn't harden him because I felt bad...he had those sad puppy dog eyes...his sister was just so mean to him...I didn't want to be mean to him too!) and my slides glitched at the end!!  It gave me the ones saying they were married and lived happily ever after, yada yada yada, but then the very last one said Alistair remained at the castle with his lover, Elizabeth, much to Queen Anora's dismay, until he was called to Weishauppt. Definitely threw me for a loop...especially when the credits started rolling and the Ultimate Sacrifice trophy popped (lmao...so far as I am aware...no one died...I even pulled up my game after my credits to make sure)!  XD  -sighs-

[Ryzaki]

 

*snip*

 

 

? You can go to Orzammar first.

 

Edit: Ah you ment the assassin thing. my bad for not reading first Shouldn't respond upon first waking up.

 

I already said I understood why he wanted to kill them (threatening his power) taking them into custody after saying they killed the king was only going to lead to one thing though. The nobles would've demanded blood (especially if the Warden is CE who already killed nobility and walked away from it). It's not like the wardens so called killed one person at Ostagar they killed several armies and a lot of people (especially those badly affected by the blight) would've wanted justice. Most of the people don't harass you that much because as Ser Bryant says "I don't believe the wardens would be as careless or malicious as the teyrn claims." Loghain's cover of the wardens killing Calian isn't believed by pretty much anybody. Loghain like it or not would've mostly like like it or not been pretty much forced to execute the wardens as an example if he had captured them to maintain any sense of believability for his lie (not that it was fooling much of anyone but appearances and all that). Life imprisonment doesn't seem to be a thing in Thedas.

 

And of course Howe being alive means you're not very likely to reach Loghain at all.

[Xetykins]

My F! Cousland married Alistair and put him on the throne unhardened (I didn't harden him because I felt bad...he had those sad puppy dog eyes...his sister was just so mean to him...I didn't want to be mean to him too!) and my slides glitched at the end!!  It gave me the ones saying they were married and lived happily ever after, yada yada yada, but then the very last one said Alistair remained at the castle with his lover, Elizabeth, much to Queen Anora's dismay, until he was called to Weishauppt. Definitely threw me for a loop...especially when the credits started rolling and the Ultimate Sacrifice trophy popped (lmao...so far as I am aware...no one died...I even pulled up my game after my credits to make sure)!  XD  -sighs-

Lol! Thats a lot of slides screw ups for you. Are you playing on pc or xbox/ps?

[DarthGizka]

It's an irrational reason.

 

No, it isn't. "Rational" is about choosing means that are proportionate and adequate for reaching your goals, whatever those might happen to be.

[DarthGizka]

What is irrational is the prevailing idea that any player is obligated to look for reasons to spare Loghain, or think about his characterization or "why he is the way he is".

 

Look at the topic of this thread and then think again. Nobody cares what you do in your game, but when the discussion is about the (de)merits of killing Loghain then those reasons are central.