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[Jeffonl1]

One of the great strengths of DAO is not only can you roleplay, but you can character roleplay: where you fill not just the role but you can provide the personality or philosophy

[Cobra's_back]

One of the great strengths of DAO is not only can you roleplay, but you can character roleplay: where you fill not just the role but you can provide the personality or philosophy

I agree. I don't play many games but i do like this one because you have a choice. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That's all true, but I don't think "peak performance" is much of a role. Or at the very least, it's a bland Mary Sue or boy scout trope. In the abstract sense, I already understand the role too much to want to roleplay it.

Not always. Peak performance in Orzammar and Amaranthine requires you to do some questionable things.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

What do you mean for Orzammar?

 

That's one of the few quests I think is hard coded to never be peak performance. They don't write in the "third option" like they do with Dalish or the Broken Circle. You're forced to choose either Harrowmont or Bhelen.. both less than ideal.

I don't like Bhelen, and I don't like Harrowmont. But one of them gets results.

[Cobra's_back]

That's all true, but I don't think "peak performance" is much of a role. Or at the very least, it's a bland Mary Sue or boy scout trope. In the abstract sense, I already understand the role too much to want to roleplay it.

 

I don't necessarily want anti-heroes or bastards either, mind you. But even the most appealing heroic stories of our world had failures, tragedies, mistrust, and delusion in them. Joan of Arc, King Arthur and Lancelot, Abe Lincoln's politicking and dilly-dallying before he gave into the abolitionists, etc...Some might be fictional, some real, but life is full of conflict, bias, and imperfection. That's what we create gods for. To be what we aren't.

 

Well, the Greeks didn't do that, I guess. Their gods were bastards too.

 

What your saying doesn't make any sense. It has nothing with Mary Sue or boy scout. What does have to do with is let's say build the Vigil Keep to last. It also means get 100 approval to build up your characters so that they fight better. It doesn't require a boy scout to get this done.

 

Honestly, where do you get this stuff?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Oh. I think we have different meanings of peak performance. You can get peak performance in Orzammor within a context, and with the cards your dealt.

 

But I mean peak performance isn't appealing from a general stance. When you're enacting all of your idealistic fantasies. When things always go right from a general moral or logical point of view. I don't want to play a character who never wades through the mud, never has biases or chooses a side, or never take the offensive or selfish dialogue option, etc.. I'm glad DA2 cut out a lot of the "third option" ideals. You can be pretty heroic still, but never be Superman (or Superwoman) in that game. And that's a good thing.

I'd prefer there to be good outcomes for just about every quest, even if that good outcome means staying the hell away from the questgiver. But these should be morally interesting situations. If you have to do something clever or amoral (or both) to get the best outcome of a quest, that's brilliant. If getting the best outcome of a quest means you tell the seneschal who's complaining of lack of soldiers to do his best to give everyone a sufficient guard (which as I understand it means that everyone gets one in that exact decision in Amaranthine) then I feel an overwhelming need to bash my head against a wall. Damn shame, too. A lot of the decisions in that campaign were pretty nice, I thought.

[Cobra's_back]

Oh. I think we have different meanings of peak performance. You can get peak performance in Orzammor within a context, and with the cards your dealt.

 

But I mean peak performance isn't appealing from a general stance. When you're enacting all of your idealistic fantasies. When things always go right from a general moral or logical point of view. I don't want to play a character who never wades through the mud, never has biases or chooses a side, or never take the offensive or selfish dialogue option, etc.. I'm glad DA2 cut out a lot of the "third option" ideals. You can be pretty heroic still, but never be Superman (or Superwoman) in that game. And that's a good thing.

 

Wow! I have never seen anyone used the word peak performance that way. There is no set way to play this game and that is why it is a hit.

 

If you want to be selfish and biases go ahead. Players want more options not less. DA2 wasn't a hit.

[Cobra's_back]

Getting 100 approval everywhere is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's not roleplaying. It's maximizing gameplay mechanics, while the player character becomes this bland sounding board who says and does everything right to get on people's good sides. But losing any interesting angles themselves in the process.

 

That's nothing like building up the keep. There's no character to it. It's just a build. I don't want to treat characters like they're buildings though, where I have a clear "I win" button. I want to act like a person with them.

 

You are describing how you want it. Not everyone cares to play it this way. Why should they kill some of their market? You can still play it your way and you don't have to change it for anyone else.

[Cobra's_back]

I never claimed to do anything else but that. But when you suggest to me to play with peak performance, I explained why I don't. Now you think it's me trying to force you into things instead. lol. I have a clear preference, but I really don't care about what you do with your time. I'm a harmless voice on a message board. Don't mind me.

 

You mean this message:

 

Streetmagic wrote: “Or you can just be another garden variety RPG saint and see the best in everything. That always works.”

 

I wrote: “Or you can be a smart intelligent warden groom your team for peak performance as you are influencing the public around you. Just to give it a real world favor.”

 

This was just another option not meant for you to actually do. I don't relate peak performance with saint. To me these are two different things. I thought I was just adding in another suggestion. The more the better

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[Cobra's_back]

Fair enough.

 

I just can't help seeing it from a saint. Or someone trying to be one. Especially like you mentioned above, with getting 100 approval. That somewhat entails a kind of character who has either elevated themselves among all the many problems and factions of Thedas, to the point that they can see how to be friends with anyone. It can be done, but it's not an interesting role for me to play.

 

That doesn't mean I want to play some bastard who intentionally presses people's buttons though. It comes down to backstory I create and the origin story. If I'm a Cousland, for example, I want to roleplay a noble's perspective somewhat. I want to be ignorant of other people's ways of life and step on some toes. Same with Dalish.

 

Or it could just be having fun with playing a character who simply doesn't jive well with someone right away. That could be as simple as, say, the friction Han Solo and Leia had in Star Wars. Han is a smuggler and rough around the edges, while Leia is royalty. They get on each other's nerves, but eventually they hook up too. Even the best kind of friendships have fights. I can't replicate this kind of storytelling by always going the "approval" route.

 

Also, DA2 did this much better as well. I liked that Friendship or Rivalry opened up different dialogues and skillsets.

 

Thank you for clarification. Again I'm sorry for the confusion. This line: "I just can't help seeing it from a saint."

 

I just see it as a manager or someone training for a special event. Both these individual could be real nasty but they are trained to perform. I get what your saying and it sounds like fun. I do tend to gravitate in a certain direction for an exact ending. "I know how dull" 

[Mike3207]

You could also RP keeping everyone at 100 approval the PC having the people skills to know his people and do what he can to get the best out of them. Of course it might be a stretch for the Hero of the Age to also have people skills to go along with his/her martial ability, but there are characters like Julius Caesar who can do it all well. They're very rare, but they do exist.

 

On the 100 approval for everyone, I've never been able to do it. it's just too hard to get Shale's and Oghren's approval up in the game.

 

Yes, Julius was a bit too successful in the end.Same thing might have happened with the Warden.We'll have to wait until DAI to find out for sure.