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[Chashan]

My cousland in this game is going to discover she is pregnant just after they are married. A few months of taint and lots of sex will allow for her to conceive. Remember, she's one tough woman. Look at all she's been through. I refuse to let the bleakness of the game destroy my happiness.

 

That's why I won't do a US ending at least not until I'm in that sort of mood or I stop using head canon to make it better.

 

I can see why you felt that way thought. It's just about as depressing as a game gets and US does seem right if you are thinking of how things are or will be. Nothing about all that stuff feels good.

 

I wonder about that: isn't it stated that Wardens (all but) trade in their fertility for their condition?

 

I called Anora the "virgin Queen" before in case she is sole ruler for a reason: I could very much picture BW going for a Fereldan "Glorious Revolution" down the line regardless of who is crowned at the Landsmeet, in case they wish to revisit Ferelden again. After all, why not? By the time that comes about, the Warden(s) may very well have followed their Calling.

 

 

 

Riverdaleswithflash wrote...

It makes sense on a utilitarian scale. Making the potion was probably a loss given how many lives Avernus took for what doesn't appear to be much gain. On the other hand, destroying the potion when it already exists denies you power that you can use to do good, to nobody's gain. Bear in mind that whether or not the potion grants enough power to be worth the lives lost, the lives are lost.

 

Gameplay-wise, Blood Thirst is amazing. Couple with Haste and Spirit Warrior, and attack-speeds are through the roof. Found that to be so on my sword-and-board avatar anyway, somewhat giddy about how a DW-warrior may do with that combination.

 

Story-wise, the Warden-condition is one of imminent doom anyway, so I see little reason not to use the potion, also due to the fact that the costs involved in its making can't be reverted. And why should they, the Grey uses any means that may be of advantage, hence why I let the man carry on.

[Reorte]

Eh I usually spoil the hell out of myself. So not that much in the dark.

Tried it and things didn't turn out as expected, turned to the Wiki and it looks like they shouldn't have done anyway. I was trying to grit my teeth and shove Alistair and Anora together, and use Loghain. Wiki suggests that's possible with a hardened Alistair but it's resulted in him walking off in a sulk. A reload and a dead Loghain and they still don't seem to be hooked up, I though I'd done what was needed to shove them together unless I died at some point and hadn't saved as late as I thought.

[Cobra's_back]

I don't think Leliana even has strong opinions on magic. Especially the Chantry stuff. She would rather you do the blood magic ritual on Isolde than kill Connor. And wants you to forgive Jowan or not judge him simply on blood magic. Her value system here has nothing to do with Chantry beliefs. It revolves around her own private ideas of redemption and protecting (what she perceives as) innocents.

 

Even my Dalish is more strict than her about this stuff. Dalish are discouraged from even conversing with spirits, let alone demons. And they'll hunt their own keepers, if things go awry or there's an abomination.

 

Cullen in the Broken Circle quest is a Chantry follower to the bone.

 

She actually helps the mages in asunder because she is friends with Wynne. I also see her beating to her own drum even if some of the time it doesn't seem that way. 

[Cobra's_back]

Tried it and things didn't turn out as expected, turned to the Wiki and it looks like they shouldn't have done anyway. I was trying to grit my teeth and shove Alistair and Anora together, and use Loghain. Wiki suggests that's possible with a hardened Alistair but it's resulted in him walking off in a sulk. A reload and a dead Loghain and they still don't seem to be hooked up, I though I'd done what was needed to shove them together unless I died at some point and hadn't saved as late as I thought.

 

I did get this to work with 100% hardened Al no romance. I had a male Cousland. I had a persuasion check. I talked to him right after Anora at the Estate. My line was that Anora would take care of State issues and he would lead. He said Yes. I may be wrong but I thought that meant she takes care of politics and he leads the army. After the landsmeet I give him Duncan shield to bring him back up to 100%. I think I still took a negative but the shield covered it. Loghain has to be executed by your hand if you want them to marry and keep Al in the team.

[Cobra's_back]

I always do the good guy runs first then I go darker. By the time I stopped skyrim I was going on murder sprees.

 

That is the same way i play that game. I like the danger of getting caught as well. It was fun trying to hide when you were going to kill someone. 

[Reorte]

I did get this to work with 100% hardened Al no romance. I had a male Cousland. I had a persuasion check. I talked to him right after Anora at the Estate. My line was that Anora would take care of State issues and he would lead. He said Yes. I may be wrong but I thought that meant she takes care of politics and he leads the army. After the landsmeet I give him Duncan shield to bring him back up to 100%. I think I still took a negative but the shield covered it. Loghain has to be executed by your hand if you want them to marry and keep Al in the team.

I did that but he's not at 100%. After promising Anora that I'd try to be merciful towards Loghain (through grated teeth, even though I understand his position) I spared his life at first, despite not really wanting to. Might do a bit of reloading to at least work out what's going on rather than play through the entire game again.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That is the same way i play that game. I like the danger of getting caught as well. It was fun trying to hide when you were going to kill someone. 

There's something fun to that danger. Though personally I think there's also something to be said for the sheer power trip of being under 100% chameleon.

[Cobra's_back]

THIS 100%

 

The ending in and of itself is about as bleak as it gets really when you stop to think about it. Screw Morrigan and get some freaky old god baby, sacrifice yourself or alistair or loghain. That's basically a no win no matter how you look at it. Sure I could marry Alistair or run off with him and rebuild the GW, but those are the best two option for me as a female player romancing him. But we're both still becoming ghouls and will probably at the same time head to orzammar to die. And there's going to be that old god baby that will be who knows what by that time.

 

Fact is there is no truly happy ending in this game. Just different levels of bleak.

 

To tell the truth if it got any more bleak, I wouldn't have played it again. That was one of the problems with Hawk. Hawk had absolutely no real influence. It just looked like any decision was worthless. 

[Ryzaki]

Tried it and things didn't turn out as expected, turned to the Wiki and it looks like they shouldn't have done anyway. I was trying to grit my teeth and shove Alistair and Anora together, and use Loghain. Wiki suggests that's possible with a hardened Alistair but it's resulted in him walking off in a sulk. A reload and a dead Loghain and they still don't seem to be hooked up, I though I'd done what was needed to shove them together unless I died at some point and hadn't saved as late as I thought.

You gotta convince him to marry Anora ahead of time. Arrang it with Anora and Alistair before you confront Loghain. If you just spring it on him he's to angry to agree.

Also make sure Alistair's hardened. It only occurs at 70 plus approval.

[Reorte]

You gotta convince him to marry Anora ahead of time. Arrang it with Anora and Alistair before you confront Loghain. If you just spring it on him he's to angry to agree.

Also make sure Alistair's hardened. It only occurs at 70 plus approval.

I'd done that, and he's hardened. Must've been the approval, I dumped a few gifts on him, got it back up, and had the option. Now that that's done I'm running around after Darkspawn in Denerim (having annoyingly realised I was running along with the plot and have missed a few sidequests). Also my enthusiasm for playing more seems to have dropped for some reason, (presumably) when I'm right near the end. Perhaps I've just had too long a session today when I'm not feeling well anyway.

[Xilizhra]

The way I see it, we are given leeway here because first of all, Alistair can have a baby with morrigan. He's six months with the taint. My cousland is having sex with him from what I'll say is a few months in at most. She's got several more months. Also, Morrigan had no idea how long he had been tainted so with that in mind, clearly we've got some time. It could have been a few years. This is never discussed by him around her. If she can have a baby with him so long as it hasn't been many years (because again, she has no knowledge and neither does Flemeth know exactly how long it has been for him) then if he can produce a child so can the female PC who is tainted half a year less. Indications are that it takes time for the taint to really begin to affect you and actually, you don't really begin to see changes right away so it's progressive. If you are in a relationship early on with someone, it will likely happen as the DR alone implies that it can and does. Alistair's take on it is based on wardens that had been wardens for long than he had and from what we hear of them, none of them seemed to be in relationship and having sex. They were to busy doing drinking contests. So this is a very wide open area with Alistair saying it might not be possible but he really doesn't seem to have specific knowledge or proof other than they had kids before the joining. But looking at Duncan as their leader, I don't really see him letting them be involved with others. He's a hardass. I see him being a 'focus on our mission' and no time for those matters sort of guy.

 

My warden gives him an heir. She is pregnant before they even have the ceremony. In fact, she might be pregnant while they are doing the final battle.

It's canon that two Wardens will never have children together, IIRC. It's just barely possible as it is for a non-Warden to have a child with one, and Morrigan was very obviously using magic to ensure conception (which you can't ensure from sex between ordinary people anyway).

[Jeffonl1]

This. 

Too often many of the bugs/inconveniences (well whatever) have to be fixed with mods.  Its a shame really. 

[Xilizhra]

Well, I clearly don't really care about canon, not after all the stupid in the landsmeet. My game played my way. When they ruin it, I'm going to fix it. If it didn't smack of stupid I wouldn't have to.

Wait, what was ruined and what was stupid?

 

And I think the issue with children is more a way to not overload the save imports.

[Ryzaki]

I'd done that, and he's hardened. Must've been the approval, I dumped a few gifts on him, got it back up, and had the option. Now that that's done I'm running around after Darkspawn in Denerim (having annoyingly realised I was running along with the plot and have missed a few sidequests). Also my enthusiasm for playing more seems to have dropped for some reason, (presumably) when I'm right near the end. Perhaps I've just had too long a session today when I'm not feeling well anyway.

 

Hm...I should try on my hostile Alistair human noble. She got hardened Alistair to marry her at -100 not sure why she'd be unable to convince him to marry Anora.

 

I know what you feel about the enthusiasm dropping at the end. I know I'm going to have to go through Landsmeet and DR stupidity and not want to play either.

[Ryzaki]

They even use it to justify Loghain's hate for the Orlesians. So we get it twice for DAO. TWICE.

 

More like 5 possibly six times. Lanaya, Zatherine's hate for humans, and Leliana's backstory (probably Zev's too come to think of it).

[Xilizhra]

And I just did the city elf start... my god did they really need to ride the gang rape of elves to get us to see things are bad? I mean that is by many writers considered bad writing. They could have mistreated them, messed with the wedding, done some of that stuff. Bad writing always goes for the big drama because they don't know how to make the less severe or horrible things work. You don't need to rape Shianni to get the point across. You don't need to have them scoop them up like cattle to be gang raped by soldiers and noble men to make the point either. You just need to have some crappy conditions and nobles dictating terms, throwing around their power and even implying it is their right. You just need one taken hostage and she doesn't even need to be raped. It's the easy way to grab for drama but talented writers know this. It reminds me of how you get these cookie cutter backstories on TV and Movie characters - horrible histories, generally someone was raped or murdered, someone was abused, whatever... whenever I see that I know the writing will be questionable at best because they couldn't think outside of the truly easy horrors of life to make provide motivation. They warn against stuff like this in writing classes and it has become common place so that now if some main character is going to have a backstory that is dark, you already know odds are it will be rape, murder, something horrible as if people couldn't be darkened by other things in the world, other circumstances or many smaller things that just add up because they kept happening while none of them in and of themselves were truly horrific. They even use it to justify Loghain's hate for the Orlesians. So we get it twice for DAO. TWICE.

That sort of subtlety would work when the whole story is about city elves and you can sort of build it up... but when having to pack things in tightly to one origin story to give you a clear view of how things work in your former life, especially in a dramatic and violent way, I think this one worked well enough.

 

 

Not going to debate it with you beyond saying that playing as a female character who romances Alistair and hopes for a happy ending has more hurdles thrown at you than I can count.

Aside from needing to harden him if he's made king, I don't see anything that was more significant than what my Warden jumped through to romance Leliana.

[Reorte]

Hm...I should try on my hostile Alistair human noble. She got hardened Alistair to marry her at -100 not sure why she'd be unable to convince him to marry Anora.

 

I know what you feel about the enthusiasm dropping at the end. I know I'm going to have to go through Landsmeet and DR stupidity and not want to play either.

Well, it's my first playthrough and although I've seen a couple of spoilers I've largely managed to avoid them, so it's not as if I know what's going to happen in any great detail (e.g. I knew there was something called the Dark Ritual but not what it was). I do tend to spoiler myself on what the alternative options would've done as soon as I've made a decision though

 

Still, by and large a very good game.