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[Shadow Fox]

That's all true, but I don't think "peak performance" is much of a role. Or at the very least, it's a bland Mary Sue or boy scout trope. In the abstract sense, I already understand the role too much to want to roleplay it.

 

I don't necessarily want anti-heroes or bastards either, mind you. But even the most appealing heroic stories of our world had failures, tragedies, mistrust, and delusion in them. Joan of Arc, King Arthur and Lancelot, Abe Lincoln's politicking and dilly-dallying before he gave into the abolitionists, etc...Some might be fictional, some real, but life is full of conflict, bias, and imperfection. That's what we create gods for. To be what we aren't.

 

Well, the Greeks didn't do that, I guess. Their gods were bastards too.

Note a good character isn't necessarily a perfect Mary Sue their idealism and strict adherence to their moral code can and often will lead to short sidedness and their decisions biting them in the ass.

[Cobra's_back]

It is one way at least. If Wynne's schtick is sacrifice, then Morrigan's is survival.

 

To bring the thread back to the original point though, I'd rather bypass both and go with Loghain. I don't know what he represents. Throwing people under the bus, I guess?

 

 

I can't say for sure I'm afraid of Morrigan's  baby. I think the whole baby thing is kinda comical. 

[TEWR]

How did Loghain turn into Mages and Templars?

[Cobra's_back]

In all fairness, wynne is brainwashed and dumb as a rock. She spouts platitudes she was taught and has no real individual thinking. Then when you get involved with Alistair she keep preaching her crap to you and boy how did they lay that on. Some bad writing right there with her warning about decisions you'll have to make. They basically tell you that you probably won't end up with Alistair. They also seem to lay on the sacrifice idea with a heavy hand as well as doing all your deeds to help others. You are a servant to the world making it good. I really wanted to give her a beat down.

 

BW was very heavy handed with her. She was meant to be foreshadowing I think but it was just laid on much too thick. I knew what was coming in those conversations. It was just a matter of if I could still make it work out how I wanted it to, which I did by not making him king since I was a mage.

 

Very good point. I now see it more clearly. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

How did Loghain turn into Mages and Templars?

Same way everything else turns into Loghain. We're just really weird people.

[Xilizhra]

Actually the exact words are "next-to-impossible"

I think Word of God confirmed that it wouldn't be happening with Alistair.

[Mike3207]

I'm using information from DA2. Anders does state the Templars raped the mages and he was lucky enough to avoid it.

 

It makes sense there. It is pretty much a oppressive environment (prison was a bad way of putting it) with a severe power imbalance.

 

I don't see it as a fetish as much as it's common and easily seen as indefensible so it's a quick way of creating conflict, negativity towards an institution or an antagonist.

Well, DA2 Anders is hardly a credible source .He's got the whole possessed mage thing going on, and I believe he and Justice would say anything to outrage people over the plight of the mages. If we had a secondary source to confirm it, that'd be different.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, DA2 Anders is hardly a credible source .He's got the whole possessed mage thing going on, and I believe he and Justice would say anything to outrage people over the plight of the mages. If we had a secondary source to confirm it, that'd be different.

I agree that Anders has reasons to lie, but I don't think he was far gone enough until pretty late in the game. (Then again, I haven't actually played the game and don't know when he says this.)

 

Furthermore, I don't have any trouble believing that there would be Templars who would do this in every Circle, with the severity/existence of their punishments depending on the KC.

[Xilizhra]

If I had a choice in an old, Chantry friendly mage, I would've taken Irving any day. At least he has the whole Hogwarts thing going on. Wynne barely comes off like a mage to me.

How does she barely come off like a mage?

[Shadow Fox]

How did Loghain turn into Mages and Templars?

Same way Dalish turns into Merrill.

[Shadow Fox]

Reminds me too much of the old baptist lady two doors down from me.

 

Just kidding.

 

There's nothing intellectual about Wynne. It's all value based discussions.

 

I don't know. Something that captures mages to me is more of a tinkerer/scientist/apothecary type of mentality. Best words I can come up with at the moment. Librarian is another. Finn and Irving capture it.

"Thinking? Why think when you can blow **** up?"~Gwyn Surana 

[Shadow Fox]

Actually, I'd rather recruit the old Hermit mage now that I think about it.

 

Conversations around the campfire would've been great.

Sten vs Mad Hermit

 

Round 1 Fight!

 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I actually thought it was funny that he wanted to stick it to the chantry that they weren't perfect because they seem to think they are. I have come to really like him a lot though. Some found him to be awful for wanting to stick it to the chantry, but his points were valid as the first assumption Gregor has is that Lily has been controlled into doing this. How faulty and flawed is that? None of the chantry would ever do something wrong unless they are controlled by a blood mage.

In fairness to Gregor, he does quickly drop that hypothesis when he sees evidence that it's not true. It's not like he couldn't have come up with an out if he'd wanted to shield her.

[Ryzaki]

Same. Hopefully we'll visit in in a future DA game (maybe even escape from it if mage?)

[Jeffonl1]

I think mage sex is discouraged, actually. Anders notes that you want to have it done quickly, so that the Templars don't catch you. Hence the robes. (Wynne also notes mage unions are discouraged, though her words could have been construed to just refer to marriage.)

...this was a joke aimed at Oghren.... Anders says a lot of things usually to rationalize his own desires or to anatognize others. Not a reliable person. Wynne like it or not was always straight with the Warden.

[Reorte]

D: why are you here if you're trying to avert spoilers. Shoo Shoo! *waves away*

 

Ah that it is despite the several wtf moments near the ending.

Well, quite. Nominally avoiding spoilers I suppose, not too worried about picking some up if it finds me some useful information / stuff to grumble about. Anyway I'm taking a break now from having my arse kicked by the Archdemon.