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[Xilizhra]

And since this never comes up until we're dealing with the romance with alistair factor (as far as I remember) then it's just another thing they added in at that point - a reason that will be used to dump HNF if conditions aren't met to keep him from not caring about it. It's reminiscent of the death catch with the archdemon and how we do not find out until we're in Redcliffe again. We don't find out during the landsmeet which would be a logical place to learn about this if alistair doesn't take off loghain's head after the fight.

 

I see it as nonsense thrown in for game mechanics as there is no reason for it to be lore. This stuff was relevant and yet it's kept from you until last minute. Now they're just doing what they want for game mechanics with no real logic behind it. In fact, if you can live for 3 decades then you damn well can have children. Logic there is more flawed. You are strong enough to survive the joining and be a warrior for the grey wardens and live for another 30 years with this taint, but in the first few years you aren't able to produce a child? Makes no sense at all. Really, it just doesn't. It's like asking us to shelve basic common sense, something this game does far too often in my opinion.

Not all of the effects of the Joining are time-delayed. The immunity to the taint, dreams of the archdemon and increased appetite all happen immediately, and judging by the PC's combat dialogue the ability to sense darkspawn shows up very quickly. Being unable to have children doesn't strike me as particularly illogical at all.

 

 

Usually when encountering a hero in fiction, I envy lives like theirs. For the most part at least. Who doesn't want all of that adventure, right?

 

But the Warden? Hell no. Might say the same for Shepard as well. I think the average Jane/Joe has better prospects. At least they can get laid without old ladies nagging them about sacrifice and the value of solitude. Or if they do get laid, they can have kids....without it having the soul of an archdemon. I think that's kind of funny. People play these games to escape from reality. Not wish for it instead.

 

Funnily, their other hero (Hero of Orlais, Cassandra) seems to be relatively OK. She's free to exist as a badass and have a life afterwards, if she wants. But no.. that'd be too good for anyone else. There's someone I envy.

I don't know, my own PC never had that many issues with it. Especially as compared to the Circle. The Dark Ritual is a fascinating prospect, the Calling can be staved off almost indefinitely if one knows how... the only problem is that Leliana seems to leave to go do Seeker stuff. At least Alistair stays with the PC.

[theskymoves]

Not all of the effects of the Joining are time-delayed. The immunity to the taint, dreams of the archdemon and increased appetite all happen immediately, and judging by the PC's combat dialogue the ability to sense darkspawn shows up very quickly. Being unable to have children doesn't strike me as particularly illogical at all.

 

 

So quickly, my Dalish could sense 'spawns before the Joining, even when she was running around with Merrill and Fenarel, looking for Tamlen... in retrospect, Grey Warden was a good career choice for her. *Laerwen Mahariel pummels me with her tiny elf fists*

[Chashan]

[...] Doing US this time, but damn alistair makes not romancing him near impossible. My elf was kind of mean to him and he's still nice for the most part barring a few points here or there. [...]

 

I didn't find those to be "few" at all, to be had. Mind you, I tend to be confrontational with him, by and large, yet I find it astonishing how not joining him in mourning Duncan will tick him off already; his...obsession with Duncan in general was brought up before, I believe.

Further, last playthrough, I was still holding on to the restored amulet formerly in his possession in Redcliffe Castle and considered handing that to him. By that time, I had already proceeded to exorcise Connor* the old-fashioned way. Let's just say that his outburst in Camp at that, while understandable, made me drop that notion altogether.

 

*As I posted elsewhere: Isolde's VA alone makes this the preferred outcome for me there, rather than the "third option" of the Circle. Besides, the epilogue-slide for it...tear-jerker.

Shows to me that yes, tragic and "ideal" outcomes can in fact co-exist in a game's story, no need to force either.

[Cobra's_back]

I didn't find those to be "few" at all, to be had. Mind you, I tend to be confrontational with him, by and large, yet I find it astonishing how not joining him in mourning Duncan will tick him off already; his...obsession with Duncan in general was brought up before, I believe.

Further, last playthrough, I was still holding on to the restored amulet formerly in his possession in Redcliffe Castle and considered handing that to him. By that time, I had already proceeded to exorcise Connor* the old-fashioned way. Let's just say that his outburst in Camp at that, while understandable, made me drop that notion altogether.

 

*As I posted elsewhere: Isolde's VA alone makes this the preferred outcome for me there, rather than the "third option" of the Circle. Besides, the epilogue-slide for it...tear-jerker.

Shows to me that yes, tragic and "ideal" outcomes can in fact co-exist in a game's story, no need to force either.

 

It was your choice to have this type of relationship. Others have a completely different relationship and reactions. We could be Al's friend and harden him.

 

I could see that he had empathy for the commoners and elves. David wrote him this way. It didn't surprise me that i like the ending when I picked him as King alone. I saw it as David saying a good King will always question himself. David might have just over did it a bit. You see the same insecurity "I don't want to be King" in Marc.

 

Frankly, I don't care. I put in the one I want for the ending I seek.

[Mike3207]

So my feelings on this is that one really has to be a jerk to bring out the bad in him - or be a jerk and a male PC.

Well, it's not quite that simple. He goes way  overboard on any circumstance involving blood magic-even peripherally. It's -5 if you let Jowan out of his cage. I could understand the -15 for letting Kitty possess the little girl in Honnleath, but -5 for letting a mage out of a cage ?Big overreaction.

 

You also get -7 if you choose to pick the Dalish Keeper over curing the werewolves. Swiftrunner threatens to kill everyone in the room so picking the side of the Dalish keeper is a bit understandable, but Alistair picks that simply because the keeper outs himself as a blood mage.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, it's not quite that simple. He goes way  overboard on any circumstance involving blood magic-even peripherally. It's -5 if you let Jowan out of his cage. I could understand the -15 for letting Kitty possess the little girl in Honnleath, but -5 for letting a mage out of a cage ?Big overreaction.

 

You also get -7 if you choose to pick the Dalish Keeper over curing the werewolves. Swiftrunner threatens to kill everyone in the room so picking the side of the Dalish keeper is a bit understandable, but Alistair picks that simply because the keeper outs himself as a blood mage.

I think the situation with Zathrian is a bit more complicated than you're making it. Don't forget what he did with his blood magic.

[Mike3207]

I don't dislike Alistair-I keep him for most of the game. I just realize he does have some blind spots, and it's best to keep that in mind for the circumstances I do use him in.

[Mike3207]

I think the situation with Zathrian is a bit more complicated than you're making it. Don't forget what he did with his blood magic.

Not saying Zathrian is a saint under any circumstances, but he's not the one who threatens to kill them all. For the record, most of the time I do make Zathrian end the ritual, but Swiftrunner really makes it easy to pick the other option.

[Mike3207]

The romance thing is part of it. You're going to feel compelled to see things from your love interest's point of view. i can say I see Zevran's point of view when i talk to the blood mage in the Alieange before I pick 'I'll take everything and kill you'. Same thing when I spare loghain because Anora wants it. Romance is a big motivator in these things.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Not saying Zathrian is a saint under any circumstances, but he's not the one who threatens to kill them all. For the record, most of the time I do make Zathrian end the ritual, but Swiftrunner really makes it easy to pick the other option.

Zathrian very quickly makes the same decision if you don't back him. And the original assertion that Alistair is only ticked off if you back him because he used blood magic is a bit oversimplified.

[ShadowLordXII]

Not all of the effects of the Joining are time-delayed. The immunity to the taint, dreams of the archdemon and increased appetite all happen immediately, and judging by the PC's combat dialogue the ability to sense darkspawn shows up very quickly. Being unable to have children doesn't strike me as particularly illogical at all.

 

Except that Morrigan can get pregnant by the Warden even without the DR and there's a precedent for a difficult, but rare possibility with Maric having a kid with Fiona. I like Gaider's WOG's, but a few of them are just thrown in just for the sake of inconveniencing players just because he can like retconning the lyrium-templar connection so that templars have to use lyrium even through Alistair states that you don't need lyrium and the lyrium is just used by the Chantry as a means of control (The latter being more heavily supported in the games) or stating that two wardens can never have children without magical aid though the exact words in-game were, "next-to-impossible."

 

Considering that Oghren and Leliana can show up alive in sequels if you killed them in Origins, a child born from two wardens is a minor divergence from canon or from internal consistency in comparison. So as far as I'm concerned, if a player wants to headcannon that they had kids either naturally or with help from Avernus/magical fertility spell or potion, sure. What harm can it do?

[Cobra's_back]

Well, it's not quite that simple. He goes way  overboard on any circumstance involving blood magic-even peripherally. It's -5 if you let Jowan out of his cage. I could understand the -15 for letting Kitty possess the little girl in Honnleath, but -5 for letting a mage out of a cage ?Big overreaction.

 

You also get -7 if you choose to pick the Dalish Keeper over curing the werewolves. Swiftrunner threatens to kill everyone in the room so picking the side of the Dalish keeper is a bit understandable, but Alistair picks that simply because the keeper outs himself as a blood mage.

 

I always thought the number system was a little odd. The bottom line is that Alistair usually takes the high road and it is easy for me to get positives if I have Leliana, Wynne and Alistair. 

 

I do not expect much from Swiftrunner in his beast form, and I do hold Zathrian accountable always.

 

Zat is punishing his own people as well as humans "that did not hurt his daughter". It is like some guy using a disease on your family for what someone else did. As far as I'm concern the guy is using a Bio-weapon. I'm not a fan of blood magic and I totally don't like this guy. I make him get rid of the curse and yes he tries to kill me at first but I kick his B....

 

If i had to kill him, I would. I have a serious problem with people that punish the innocent for the crimes of others.

 

None of the werewolves have total control in beast form. They want the curse lifted. Please note when the curse is lifted they don't attack the Dalish. 

[Ryzaki]

Yeah if the warden gets to OOC I'll just have the US occur because Orlesian warden means nothing to me so whatever. And Hawke is meh so whatever on that front. Long as he doesn't flip out and kill Fenris I'm fine.