I would force his daughter, Anora, to become a Grey Warden. I know she has no fighting skills so I'm not worried about that.
Yes, she does. She's trained in both swordplay and archery, per dialogue with Loghain after his recruitment. That Red Steel heavy armor she wears in her 'speech to the armies' isn't just for show.
Actually, it probably is. Whether or not she could fight at the front, I don't think she does. She doesn't seem the type. Though it's worth noting that your main point still stands.
True enough, she doesn't actually fight in the last battle. Valiantly (gloriously!) charging the foe was Cailan's schtick, not hers.
So I need to be a doctor to figure out that you lack sanity. That's cuter. Edit: Though given than I'm an English major, I feel obliged to inform you that the word you wanted was "you're."
Well I'll just put an add linking this site that people can save money by coming here to have some random person tell them they need help. You should ask Bioware if they can pay you to correct all the posts that aren't worded correctly. I'm sure they would be much obliged.
You do, though.
This coming from someone who threaten people for saying bad things about Liara.
This coming from someone who threaten people for saying bad things about Liara.
Haha, "threaten?" As in, threaten to do harm? I have never! The Liara haters are fully welcome to their crap opinions.
The fact that I have a reputation pleases me, though.
Well I'll just put an add linking this site that people can save money by coming here to have some random person tell them they need help. You should ask Bioware if they can pay you to correct all the posts that aren't worded correctly. I'm sure they would be much obliged.
I don't correct everyone's grammar. I only correct yours. (Feel special.)
Also, note that I'm not pretending I'm qualified to work out whatever's happening in your head. I'm simply noting that you ought to pay someone to do that.
I have a tendancy of killing Loghain, mainly because he strikes me as a liablity since even if I accept that what he did he did for the good of his nation and not sheer paranoia or ego, he went about in one of the most round about and costly schemes he could have devised.
They seem to recruit out of practical need and quite opportunistically. Anyone who they can grab who is in a situation where Wardens can use that as a way to recruit is fair game. They avoid pissing off nobility so they don't recruit then unless an opportunity presents itself. They take those who want to join even when they might not be the best candidate (Jory). They take whatever they can, criminals or not, if they can fight, if they have been tainted, if they can be of use, welcome to the wardens.
Spoiler warning!!!
In the calling, we learn that the warden commander who recruited Duncan, wanted him to die in the joining. Duncan had murdered her betrothed and she wanted his death to be painfull. She thought it was a cruel joke from the maker that Duncan survived.
Its been a while since I read it but thats how I remember it.
Spoiler warning!!!
In the calling, we learn that the warden commander who recruited Duncan, wanted him to die in the joining. Duncan had murdered her betrothed and she wanted his death to be painfull. She thought it was a cruel joke from the maker that Duncan survived.
Its been a while since I read it but thats how I remember it.
Didn't Duncan point out to her immediately afterwards that if she really hated him she'd had the authority to have him transferred to another post? And doesn't she concede the point?
Didn't Duncan point out to her immediately afterwards that if she really hated him she'd had the authority to have him transferred to another post? And doesn't she concede the point?
Now that you mentioned it, yeah I think he said something like that. As I said, its been a while since I last read it so I dont remember everything what happened and what was said.
Killing Loghain depends on my Warden, and my plans for the throne. My current human is planning on taking the throne for himself so he'll keep Loghain alive and exile Alister. I'm also of the opinion that this set up will be quite interesting to see play out in Inquisition.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Spoiler warning!!!
In the calling, we learn that the warden commander who recruited Duncan, wanted him to die in the joining. Duncan had murdered her betrothed and she wanted his death to be painfull. She thought it was a cruel joke from the maker that Duncan survived.
Its been a while since I read it but thats how I remember it.
Didn't Duncan point out to her immediately afterwards that if she really hated him she'd had the authority to have him transferred to another post? And doesn't she concede the point?
Thank you both! So Duncan has his own dark past, a murderer no less. Yeah, the Wardens might have their use but they are truly not noble warriors without equal as Alistair likes to think. I wonder how he would respond knowing that Duncan murdered someone and then was made to drink the blood in the hope it would kill him. Granted, they can serve well and with distinction, and they can rise above their past. Nathaniel is probably the best example... no actually he was just bitter from what happened. I think he was actually a good guy all along. Anders seems to evolve a bit through the DLC and the ending he gets is good if you do his quest but they take it back in DA2 and turn him into a nightmare. Actually, we see that none of the character become better as a result of becoming wardens. So much for that.
Is this a cruel punishment? No. He certainly didn't care about the ones that died at Ostagar, so why should I care about him or his daughter.
Uh... Loghain DOES care about the people he had to leave behind. He cares about the soldiers that gave their lives to their country and the king who while idiotic was still his son-in-law that he cared for deeply.
Really, people need to learn to not ignore the facts regarding characters. It's fine to dislike him, but could people at least use facts rather then lies?
I'd like to know more about these facts because absolutely nowhere in the game you can see that. I only saw blight ravaged lands with no sign of Loghain, poisoning a noble, blatant land grabbing in the name of loghain. And last but certainly not the least... selling of the elves. And many more. Not sure to mention the attempts on the surviving wardens life. Those maybe, most probably or you think arguements will not stick. Cuz unless I dont see those in the game, then it does not happen.Uh... Loghain DOES care about the people he had to leave behind. He cares about the soldiers that gave their lives to their country and the king who while idiotic was still his son-in-law that he cared for deeply.
Really, people need to learn to not ignore the facts regarding characters. It's fine to dislike him, but could people at least use facts rather then lies?
Thank you both! So Duncan has his own dark past, a murderer no less. Yeah, the Wardens might have their use but they are truly not noble warriors without equal as Alistair likes to think. I wonder how he would respond knowing that Duncan murdered someone and then was made to drink the blood in the hope it would kill him. Granted, they can serve well and with distinction, and they can rise above their past. Nathaniel is probably the best example... no actually he was just bitter from what happened. I think he was actually a good guy all along. Anders seems to evolve a bit through the DLC and the ending he gets is good if you do his quest but they take it back in DA2 and turn him into a nightmare. Actually, we see that none of the character become better as a result of becoming wardens. So much for that.
Just my opinion but I dare say that Carver in DA2 becomes better if he joins the wardens. First he was a hothead guy who seemed to be in a bad mood all the time and didnt seem to agree with any of Hawke´s decicions and complained. Later as a warden he seemed much more calm. He was no longer a hothead and maybe even liked being a warden. Okay im not sure about the liking part but at least it looked like he had found a purpose in his life and finally felt that he belongs to somewhere and is his own man now.
For Carver the wardens, for Bethany the circle.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Just my opinion but I dare say that Carver in DA2 becomes better if he joins the wardens. First he was a hothead guy who seemed to be in a bad mood all the time and didnt seem to agree with any of Hawke´s decicions and complained. Later as a warden he seemed much more calm. He was no longer a hothead and maybe even liked being a warden. Okay im not sure about the liking part but at least it looked like he had found a purpose in his life and finally felt that he belongs to somewhere and is his own man now.
For Carver the wardens, for Bethany the circle.
Some people do become better if they join. Seems like those that needed a push toward feeling like they were doing some good or not living in the shadows of someone or something else do better. I suspect that even though Alistair can whine a bit now, he might have been mopey as a templar. I can totally see that. Cranky and mopey. Carver IIRC gets out from Hawkes shadow and isn't he hostile toward him/her about the magic thing? Whereas no doubt the Wardens will have mages so he'll have to get over it and grow up. I don't remember a lot of Hawke because I only played DA2 three times and the second time I didn't finish. The first he died. Second he died. Third he lived but I was kind of bored with it by then and was blowing off most of what the companions said as I found that to be utterly boring. But I think he was a jerk IIRC. So yeah, he came back better but only the second time you see him. When you see him in the deep roads if you didn't kill Nate or leave him at the Vigil, he's pretty jerky to you still. I think you might only get that quest if Nate lives and is with you on the final battle.
I like Bethany not in the circle. She's cool as a warden.
I noticed that usually people with little to no pourpose in life are those who excell as wardens. Nathaniel, Sigrun, Carver, they either had nothing or lost everything, and then they found pourpose in the wardens. But I don't think any of them actually enjoy being an warden per se. Carver passive aggressive letter in act 2 say as much. Bethany seems to hate every second of being an warden however, wishing she actually died in the deep roads. The DLC expand on her bitterness. You just need to hear her banter with companions.
Spoiler warning!!!
In the calling, we learn that the warden commander who recruited Duncan, wanted him to die in the joining. Duncan had murdered her betrothed and she wanted his death to be painfull. She thought it was a cruel joke from the maker that Duncan survived.
Its been a while since I read it but thats how I remember it.
Yes. She did that but she is not the ideal warden commander. She did it for personal reasons. As luck would have it Duncan turned out to be an excellent warden.
The warden's decision shouldn't be about personal feelings. The warden's decision should be defined by a more global decision. The slavery thing is unforgivable to me as a global decision. Loghain is capable of doing these actions again. It is in his nature to sacrifice others without due process for his cause. Remember he decided to not tell the whole truth about Katriel because he wanted her executed in "The Stolen Throne". If he became a Warden and i was a CE, I would not trust the Wardens.
I just finished reading "The Masked Empire" and I was just so happy to see that the writer didn't treat the city elves as mindless and stupid. The Orlesian had an Elf that could have been their greatest Orlesian asset. Their mistreatment of elves had created a dangerous enemy.
Wardens have recruited City Elves and they know their importance. I wouldn't want to be like Duncan's warden commander. She used it as punishment. I would prefer to be like Duncan who valued potential from any race.
I noticed that usually people with little to no pourpose in life are those who excell as wardens. Nathaniel, Sigrun, Carver, they either had nothing or lost everything, and then they found pourpose in the wardens. But I don't think any of them actually enjoy being an warden per se. Carver passive aggressive letter in act 2 say as much. Bethany seems to hate every second of being an warden however, wishing she actually died in the deep roads. The DLC expand on her bitterness. You just need to hear her banter with companions.
I'm sure it's not fun being a warden. Duncan did say that you still had to present a image and I believe he was correct.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
I noticed that usually people with little to no pourpose in life are those who excell as wardens. Nathaniel, Sigrun, Carver, they either had nothing or lost everything, and then they found pourpose in the wardens. But I don't think any of them actually enjoy being an warden per se. Carver passive aggressive letter in act 2 say as much. Bethany seems to hate every second of being an warden however, wishing she actually died in the deep roads. The DLC expand on her bitterness. You just need to hear her banter with companions.
Yes. I agree with this. I really don't think any but types like Oghren really enjoy being a warden given the sacrifices that come with it. Alistair really has no clue about the reality of it.
I didn't notice that bethany hated being it the wardens. I must have missed that. I think I missed the meeting with her after she joins. I didn't do that deep roads trip and hadn't played Awakening yet so I must have missed something there or else I would have gone looking for nate as I loved him from the start. I waited on awakening because I didn't like not having any of my previous companions who back then I felt really comfortable with and now I have to rebuild new ones and feel comfortable with them. So I went into my first two games of DA2 without that and never saw bethany again until the final act. She never said anything about not liking the wardens. But in the circle, she seemed okay, except I didn't like her being there because it was dangerous and crazy. Also, I sided against the mages in that run.
Some people do become better if they join. Seems like those that needed a push toward feeling like they were doing some good or not living in the shadows of someone or something else do better. I suspect that even though Alistair can whine a bit now, he might have been mopey as a templar. I can totally see that. Cranky and mopey. Carver IIRC gets out from Hawkes shadow and isn't he hostile toward him/her about the magic thing? Whereas no doubt the Wardens will have mages so he'll have to get over it and grow up. I don't remember a lot of Hawke because I only played DA2 three times and the second time I didn't finish. The first he died. Second he died. Third he lived but I was kind of bored with it by then and was blowing off most of what the companions said as I found that to be utterly boring. But I think he was a jerk IIRC. So yeah, he came back better but only the second time you see him. When you see him in the deep roads if you didn't kill Nate or leave him at the Vigil, he's pretty jerky to you still. I think you might only get that quest if Nate lives and is with you on the final battle.
I like Bethany not in the circle. She's cool as a warden.
Alistair was happy being a Warden. He had also talked about others who had made the best of it.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
As much as many don't like duncan, he is a good warden who does exactly what wardens should do or need to do at least in Ferelden when there are so few of them. Yeah, he is easy to dislike but he is doing what needs to be done as a warden. I don't really dislike him but I find the wardens on whole a dark opportunistic bunch. In DAA you become that conscripting people all over the place or taking anyone you can. Suddenly you are duncan and yet I'm sure most who dislike Duncan don't even realize that.
It looks prettier than it did in the openings because it appears you are saving Nate from himself or giving him another chance and it appears you are saving Anders from the templars and helping Sigund and Velanna, but you're just taking people to build your forces and look at who you are taking? Someone who might have tried to kill you and hates you for his father's crimes, someone who is essentially aiming to be an apostate, someone who has murdered countless innocents because of her hatred.... even a walking corpse who has some spirit possessing him. But that is who the wardens are, grabbing bodies wherever they can.
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Alistair was happy being a Warden. He had also talked about others who had made the best of it.
Actually, he is not happy being a warden. In the fade he tells you he is not. He says almost exactly that he thought he would like being a warden or it would make him happy but it didn't. That's the dialogue you get if you choose the bottom option in the fade which is something like 'you seem... content' then the next dialogue option I think is what reveals things even more... choose the top option for dialogue next (the second dialogue you have with him in the fade) and that top option is the one that reveals he doesn't want to die surrounded by darkspawn corpses or something along those lines. So really, he just admits he doesn't like it despite he thought he would and the fate that awaits him is one he doesn't want. But his brain cannot accept that so he seems to gloss over that when awake. He's essentially in denial and part of it is probably because of Duncan. He's trying to be some kind of ideal grey warden only he never really understood or accepted what the grey wardens really were. This is evident by how he calls Daveth a cutpurse and doesn't understand why Duncan picked him. Well duncan picked him because he has a skill that might come in handy and because he COULD... one more body to throw at the darkspawn. Ironcially daveth has more grey warden in him than Jory. Daveth is willing to do whatever it takes to stop them, even the joining. But this is something that Alistair doesn't get. He thinks it's all nobility and heroes. He doesn't even know that in a few cases the newest recruit he is speaking to is a murderer or there only because they were tainted and had no other choice.
Edited to add: He is only happy being a warden if he is in love with you and you stay by his side as a warden unhardened. That seems to be one of the ideals. The other is him as king hardened, with you as his queen. Last would be him as king with you as his mistress. I personally think king would be more to his liking with you as his queen given what you learn in the fade, but I still doubt his ability as king though my Cousland would really be the one running things much like anora did only there won't be any looming loghain statues. But in the absence of that, Alistair would be happy as a warden by the side of the woman he loves because family and love and being cared about are his primary needs.
I'd like to know more about these facts because absolutely nowhere in the game you can see that. I only saw blight ravaged lands with no sign of Loghain, poisoning a noble, blatant land grabbing in the name of loghain. And last but certainly not the least... selling of the elves. And many more. Not sure to mention the attempts on the surviving wardens life. Those maybe, most probably or you think arguements will not stick. Cuz unless I dont see those in the game, then it does not happen.
Who is actually lying here I wonder. Now its ok to headcannon that Loghain is a saint. But to call someone who is only saying things they saw in the game a liar is not cool.
I don't think he's claiming that Loghain is a saint. He's simply claiming that Loghain did not make his decision to abandon those soldiers lightly, as per Loghain's word at Return To Ostagar. (So yes, there is evidence for this in-game.) And by the way, none of Loghain's other crimes are evidence that this is not true: even if you put the worst possible construction on everything else Loghain does all game (as you seem to) that doesn't mean Loghain doesn't have a conscience as far as the loyal subordinates he claims he couldn't save.
"Although I dont like the way he wanted to make loghain pay. That was a little too sick for me :-/"
Yes.
As much as many don't like duncan, he is a good warden who does exactly what wardens should do or need to do at least in Ferelden when there are so few of them. Yeah, he is easy to dislike but he is doing what needs to be done as a warden. I don't really dislike him but I find the wardens on whole a dark opportunistic bunch. In DAA you become that conscripting people all over the place or taking anyone you can. Suddenly you are duncan and yet I'm sure most who dislike Duncan don't even realize that.
It looks prettier than it did in the openings because it appears you are saving Nate from himself or giving him another chance and it appears you are saving Anders from the templars and helping Sigund and Velanna, but you're just taking people to build your forces and look at who you are taking? Someone who might have tried to kill you and hates you for his father's crimes, someone who is essentially aiming to be an apostate, someone who has murdered countless innocents because of her hatred.... even a walking corpse who has some spirit possessing him. But that is who the wardens are, grabbing bodies wherever they can.
Yeah, I also made the connection. But unlike Duncan I never tricked anyone. I warned Oghren to think carefully, saying that there are risks. Anders, sigh, it was either being an warden or get hanged/tranquilized. What is the better option? Nathaniel, you can actually have him join by his own free will by letting him go from his cell, so there is that. I dislike being an warden,but also understand they exist for an important pourpose.
I wonder many times what would Duncan do, or any veteran warden for the matter, if they were in my place. I often think they would do things that Alistair highly disapproves of, such as preserving the Anvil, not bothering to go to the circle to help Connor, or recruiting Loghain.
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