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[Costin_Razvan]

I've always spared him. I can make up a whole host of reasons as to why I do it but ultimately I just found the concept of sparing him too interesting, turning a defeated foe into your ally and all: Don't care about Howe or the assassins or the slavery business but I played a Dwarf Noble who went with Bhelen and preserved the anvil.

 

Besides as Tywin Lannister if famous for saying: When a defeated foe goes on his knees you help him back up or else no man will bend his knee for you again. 

Initially I let Alistair go, then I hardened and married him to Anora but now I've just taken to executing him.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Besides as Tywin Lannister if famous for saying: When a defeated foe goes on his knees you help him back up or else no man will bend his knee for you again. 

Initially I let Alistair go, then I hardened and married him to Anora but now I've just taken to executing him.

If you do that nobody will ever be your ally again.

[Mike3207]

If you do that nobody will ever be your ally again.

Not sure if you're talking about your companions or your political allies. Either way, you actually don't execute him-you let Anora do it.You can speak up, and let him be a drunk, or let it happen. It might be better for him to be exiled in the long run, especially since you know Eamon will eventually use Alistair to ferment rebellion and civil war if he stays in Ferleden.I have to hope that's not the case with Teagan bringing him back.

 

I used to let him be executed-but then I started to worry about their not being enough candidates with royal blood around after the Hero of Ferelden disappears. You don't want things to head toward civil war again-even if you think that's the direction things are headed in. It's best to let him head to Kirkwall as a drunk, and then let Teagan rehabilitate him later on.

 

Your options are really a bit limited if you spare Loghain, as Alistair has declared for the throne to have him killed. Your only options are to let Anora kill him or to have him exiled to avoid a civil war. Really, Alistair could have stayed if he hadn't declared himself King in his desire to kill Loghain.

[Cobra's_back]

Not sure if you're talking about your companions or your political allies. Either way, you actually don't execute him-you let Anora do it.You can speak up, and let him be a drunk, or let it happen. It might be better for him to be exiled in the long run, especially since you know Eamon will eventually use Alistair to ferment rebellion and civil war if he stays in Ferleden.I have to hope that's not the case with Teagan bringing him back.

 

I used to let him be executed-but then I started to worry about their not being enough candidates with royal blood around after the Hero of Ferelden disappears. You don't want things to head toward civil war again-even if you think that's the direction things are headed in. It's best to let him head to Kirkwall as a drunk, and then let Teagan rehabilitate him later on.

 

Your options are really a bit limited if you spare Loghain, as Alistair has declared for the throne to have him killed. Your only options are to let Anora kill him or to have him exiled to avoid a civil war. Really, Alistair could have stayed if he hadn't declared himself King in his desire to kill Loghain.

 

Don't you have the option to convince Alistair to marry Anora and then make Loghain a warden. I never did this myself. Loghain always dies. I would like to try doing this with a Dwarf noble. I won't do it with a human noble. I don't want to be her prince. I like being the chancellor. 

[Mike3207]

Don't you have the option to convince Alistair to marry Anora and then make Loghain a warden. I never did this myself. Loghain always dies. I would like to try doing this with a Dwarf noble. I won't do it with a human noble. I don't want to be her prince. I like being the chancellor. 

Sure-I do that with my non Cousland origins, unless I have a good reason like city elves to kill Loghain. I am saying that if your Cousland marries Anora and spares Loghain, then you have to choose to either exile Alistair or let Anora kill him. I think exile is the best option, but i can understand why someone would let him be killed to spare future rebellions.

[Costin_Razvan]

If you do that nobody will ever be your ally again.

 

Alistair is just a bastard born who Eamon claims is Maric's son, most don't care or support him. He has no allies, no friends ( even Eamon can hardly be considered such ) among the nobility or family. His death will not be missed. Besides it falls on Anora to make that choice, not you. Now if Eamon were to be executed I could see a problem but he is not.

 

Loghain on the other hand had the full backing of half the Bannorn along with most of the royal army. He is widely respected by the peasants despite everything he did and the gossips actually mention most are relieved if he is spared. Killing him would cause a great deal of resentment against you, Alistair and Eamon and would ensure the country remains divided.

[Jeffonl1]

Alistair is just a bastard born who Eamon claims is Maric's son, most don't care or support him. He has no allies, no friends ( even Eamon can hardly be considered such ) among the nobility or family. His death will not be missed. Besides it falls on Anora to make that choice, not you. Now if Eamon were to be executed I could see a problem but he is not.

I'm not so sure about this; Eamon has a large following among the nobility; if Eamon claims Alistair is Maric's son, then few will dispute him. Eamon has made the claim, for better or worse,and now it must stand.
Alistair is the last of Theirin bloodline; it is clearly important. Anoras authority is derived directly though her marriage into that line.

It is clear Logain had support of many in the Bannorn, but certainly not a majority. Anora though seemingly popular drew most of her direct support through her father; remember Anora does not have noble blood either. As for the royal army, most of its officers would be nobly born... Indeed if Anora gets the chance she will execute Alistair to prevent the seemingly inevitable rebellion, and end the Theirin line (leaving her as sole royal claimant). Anora's position is fundamentally weak and only tyrannical use of power can preserve it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Alistair is just a bastard born who Eamon claims is Maric's son, most don't care or support him. He has no allies, no friends ( even Eamon can hardly be considered such ) among the nobility or family. His death will not be missed. Besides it falls on Anora to make that choice, not you. Now if Eamon were to be executed I could see a problem but he is not.

 

Loghain on the other hand had the full backing of half the Bannorn along with most of the royal army. He is widely respected by the peasants despite everything he did and the gossips actually mention most are relieved if he is spared. Killing him would cause a great deal of resentment against you, Alistair and Eamon and would ensure the country remains divided.

None of this is the point. The point is he offed a man who up till now has been a loyal ally. Other potential allies are going to notice this. Don't interpret that as meaning Loghain has to die, but killing Alistair will make people wonder about you.

[Costin_Razvan]

 None of this is the point. The point is he offed a man who up till now has been a loyal ally. Other potential allies are going to notice this. Don't interpret that as meaning Loghain has to die, but killing Alistair will make people wonder about you.

Alistair is not an ally to the Warden, he is a follower who went out of line. A Grey Warden who was willing to betray the oath he took for petty vengeance. The Warden is about to become a general and the first thing the nobles are going to see is a rebellious subordinate going out of line, if you allow it they would think less of you.

If the Warden had turned on Eamon I could agree.

 

 I'm not so sure about this; Eamon has a large following among the nobility; if Eamon claims Alistair is Maric's son, then few will dispute him. Eamon has made the claim, for better or worse,and now it must stand.

Except they did not believe it as Eamon himself pointed out, they only back if you for their own self interests.

 

 

It is clear Logain had support of many in the Bannorn, but certainly not a majority. Anora though seemingly popular drew most of her direct support through her father; remember Anora does not have noble blood either. As for the royal army, most of its officers would be nobly born... Indeed if Anora gets the chance she will execute Alistair to prevent the seemingly inevitable rebellion, and end the Theirin line (leaving her as sole royal claimant). Anora's position is fundamentally weak and only tyrannical use of power can preserve it.  

Half is half, not a majority but not a minority either. You must personally convince must of the arls and strong Banns to convince the Bannorn to side against Loghain in favor of the Warden. As for the royal army, not likely though that depends on what you see a royal army.

There is no unified military in Fereldan given it's a feudal system where which lords brings men to fight for the King and Queen. The Royal Army only counts soldiers fighting directly under the banner of the crown and they would be like Cauthrien: Loyal, well trained and capable.
 

[Xetykins]

Alistair is not an ally to the Warden, he is a follower who went out of line. A Grey Warden who was willing to betray the oath he took for petty vengeance.
If the Warden had turned on Eamon I could agree.

In my game he was an ally from the moment I steppped into ostagar. And he is a follower who I am glad had the backbone in the end.to not back down own his belief and principles.

And my warden always slaughters loghain cuz absolutely nowhere in the game I can see his usefullness. Everything he does is a failure. You say that he's got backing from half the bannorn? Well that will go poof fast as his cronies are stealing lands from the nobles in his name. So I do not think he will keep those loyalties at all. Even Ser Cauthren has doubts about him in the end. Would I trade an ally and a friend who's been dodging bullets from loghain from day 1 to..... THAT? Sten: NO.



Now people always argues that none of those things that he was accused of is his fault. Well clearly he's lost it cuz he does not seem to have any form of control on his men. And looking at his right hand man Howe... well lets say he does not seem so great to me at all.

[Cobra's_back]

In my game he was an ally from the moment I steppped into ostagar. And he is a follower who I am glad had the backbone in the end.to not back down own his belief and principles.

And my warden always slaughters loghain cuz absolutely nowhere in the game I can see his usefullness. Everything he does is a failure. You say that he's got backing from half the bannorn? Well that will go poof fast as his cronies are stealing lands from the nobles in his name. So I do not think he will keep those loyalties at all. Even Ser Cauthren has doubts about him in the end. Would I trade an ally and a friend who's been dodging bullets from loghain from day 1 to..... THAT? Sten: NO.



Now people always argues that none of those things that he was accused of is his fault. Well clearly he's lost it cuz he does not seem to have any form of control on his men. And looking at his right hand man Howe... well lets say he does not seem so great to me at all.

 

 

Well said and covered it well. I enjoyed your post.

 

Thanks

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Actually, almost like he might have a bit of distaste for it, which kind of makes me wonder how much he disliked his own actions.

Well, even as he's greenlighting the hit on the Warden he does seem to have a bit of distaste for it. And he does show remorse for just about everything except Ostagar after he's been beaten.

[BlazingSpeed]

I keep him alive because of his rousing speeches. Impressive. Blatantly brushing aside slavery and blood magic in a few sentences, right in front of everyone. lol

 

 

Seriously though, the whole game revolves around you enjoying your time as a Warden or resenting it. You could do as Wynne says, and embrace your role, and crappy lot in life.. or rebel and be unhappy. Loghain offers redemption from that in a way. You make him live through it instead. That's a punishment better than a simple death. I don't believe as Alistair thinks... that's it's some kind of honor to be a Warden. He's a goddamn fool. It's a punishment.

 

Talking to Alistair in the fade shows how he really feels about being a Warden the very context of his "nightmare" in the fade contradicts that "honor" statement that Al says Al just wants Loghain dead not that I can blame him.

 

Back on topic it usually depends on the origin of the Warden that I'm playing Elven wardens slice Loghain up because of the sold into slavery bit while everyone else may or may not spare him this time I think I will spare Loghain as a Cousland.

[Costin_Razvan]

 Regarding Anora, Loghain really does see her as a bit of a cut throat who would say whatever it takes. He puts it a bit nicer but hell, he will admit it flat out and frankly, it doesn't sound like he's saying it with pride. Actually, almost like he might have a bit of distaste for it, which kind of makes me wonder how much he disliked his own actions. As I probe, I become more convinced he was just so freaked out about Orlais that he lost his mind.

 

I disagree he lost his mind. What Orlais did to Fereldan is not something someone can forgive easily: People in Vietnam still have very bad memories of the war against America and people in China and the US still remember the Korean war, but those were not hostile occupations that lasted a century, if you want a comparison think of Israel and the Arabs and how they feel towards each other.

 

Furthermore the timeline is that the war between Fereldan and Orlais only ended "officially" 10 years before DA:O but in the events of Leliana's Song, two years before DA:O it's mentioned that the so called "peace" is in just name not reality and that Orlais and Fereldan still very much struggle against each other politically. A Cold War so to speak.

 

As for Anora, every politician worth his salt is a cutthroat ****** at heart, if they aren't they don't have any place leading a country.
 

[Mike3207]

On Anora-she never actually makes a declarative statement that her father is going to kill her-but she does raise it as a possibility. I think the actual quote is "and if my people find me, they'll take me back to my father, where he may also have me killed."

 

She creates a bit of drama that works to her advantage-just like any good politician would do.

[Sifr]

 

Loghain on the other hand had the full backing of half the Bannorn along with most of the royal army. He is widely respected by the peasants despite everything he did and the gossips actually mention most are relieved if he is spared. Killing him would cause a great deal of resentment against you, Alistair and Eamon and would ensure the country remains divided.

 

Actually,  this is the reason why I have the Warden duel him and execute him, not Alistair.

 

If you let Alistair duel and kill him, those loyal to Loghain or who dislike having a illegitimate son of Maric take the throne, would call this "murder" and use this as a justification for inciting rebellion against him. No-one wants that or wants the country to be divided on the issue.

 

But letting the Warden do it, then the blood is on their hands. While the Warden does look to Alistair for the go ahead to proceed, the sole blame and burden of carrying out that execution now rests fully on them. It would be far better to have Loghain's supporters blame the Warden for the deed rather than Alistair, and I suspect that Eamon would fully agree with this sentiment.

[Ryzaki]

Yep and of course the warden can take his lands right after that

[Milan92]

Loghain did nothing wrong.

[Shadow Fox]

Given that Grey Wardens don't recruit out of charity, I seriously doubt they'd recruit out of spite.

Duncan and depending on how you play your Warden Loghain and Nathaniel.