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Should Loghain Live or Die?

Débuté par ReD BaKen9 , avril 06 2014 03:58

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#976
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:25

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The only one who commands her respect is her dad and a male Warden, I think. Or an outsider Warden who doesn't threaten her power. I like her behavior with my female Dalish. She offers helping the Dalish on her own, without me mentioning it.

 

She is a tough one. That is the point. And if only these people command her respect then she will not respect Alistair and pairing them changes nothing though the slides like to tell a pure fantasy story that doesn't jive with anything we've seen or learned in game or through metagaming.


#977
DarthGizka
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:27

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"I've only fought them once up close. And that was before the battles here started... which Duncan has kept me out of so far."


Where is this line? I think I've missed it. I also don't get many of those comments in the wildes. Some I do but not all.


You get it when you meet Alistair for the first time, if you're Dalish.

A: So, I'm curious: Have you ever actually encountered darkspawn before?

W: Yes. Just recently.

A: I've only fought them once up close. And that was before the battles here started... which Duncan has kept me out of so far. Tell me, did you find them as monstrous as I did?

Should have been available for dwarven nobles, too, but I'm fairly certain that only the Dalish get that line.

P.S.: dwarven nobles get to say "I've fought a few in my time" when talk gets around to dwarven Wardens and darkspawn, and the dialogue proceeds differently from there.

#978
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:30

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I like what Oghren calls him.. "Sir upright and good" or something like that.

 

But I don't see that as any different than Alistair or Eamon. They're all goody-goody caricatures. The difference is that he's a general. With a long grey beard. Got to respect that. :)

 

Yes and that goody-goody nature does not make for a good leader as you have to be firm and strong and play the game to a degree to get things done. Being a nice guy doesn't cut it when you are running a kingdom. It will make you a chew toy for everybody who wants something from you. I think loghain even states this if you have him join. I'm fairly certain he does. I find it funny that they put this in there as it was clearly evident to some players and even to loghain, but yet the epilogues dish out some pure fanatasy that doesn't follow anything we have seen from alistair, hardened or not because he will still be the good guy and you cannot rule a kingdom by being a good guy. Tough decisions have to be made at times. Don't make those tough decisions or play the nice guy and everything falls to hell and nobody will respect you.


#979
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:31

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You get it when you meet Alistair for the first time, if you're Dalish.

A: So, I'm curious: Have you ever actually encountered darkspawn before?

W: Yes. Just recently.

A: I've only fought them once up close. And that was before the battles here started... which Duncan has kept me out of so far. Tell me, did you find them as monstrous as I did?

Should have been available for dwarven nobles, too, but I'm fairly certain that only the Dalish get that line.

 

I always wondered if Dwarf Noble got that.

 

I like this aspect of Dalish origin though. They're experienced with darkspawn off the bat. And then some.. they fight undead and encounter ancient artifacts too. It makes more sense than my human noble. If anything, the only plausible human noble I see impressing Duncan is if you're not eager for battle -- then he compliments you on running the castle and being responsible.


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#980
DarthGizka
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:37

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Dwarven nobles get to say "I've fought a few in my time" when talk gets around to dwarven Wardens and darkspawn, and the dialogue proceeds differently from there.

I added that as an afterthought but I was not quick enough. :unsure:


#981
Mike3207
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:38

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Dwarf nobles get some dialogue options to discuss their experience fighting darkspawn.


#982
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:45

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If the Dalish inquisitor turns out to be really cool, I might switch my "canon" Warden to a dwarf.  Sounds pretty cool. Then I'd spread out my heroes across all races (except Qunari, but whatever. I hate them).


#983
Lavaeolus
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:51

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Specieist.


#984
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:54

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It really isn't a race thing. I just don't get where the writers are going with them (the Qunari). Their whole schtick.. the stoic behavior and Sten's terse "No" answers. I just don't find it funny or interesting. It's cool if one character acts a certain way, but the whole depiction of Qunari is like that. A whole race of people who act like parade cops and bar bouncers.


#985
Lavaeolus
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:57

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Hey, we've only seen their soldiers thusfar. Just wait until we meet the Qunari stand-up comedians.


#986
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 04:58

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Hey, we've only seen their soldiers thusfar. Just wait until we meet the Qunari stand-up comedians.

 

They'll be like Steven Wright.

 

... If you know him. Kind of oldschool.


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#987
Riverdaleswhiteflash
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 05:38

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It really isn't a race thing. I just don't get where the writers are going with them (the Qunari). Their whole schtick.. the stoic behavior and Sten's terse "No" answers. I just don't find it funny or interesting. It's cool if one character acts a certain way, but the whole depiction of Qunari is like that. A whole race of people who act like parade cops and bar bouncers.

Why does this mean you won't play as one? I mean, for all you know you'll be allowed to move yours in an entirely different direction. (You probably will, actually. Hawke was pretty flat, but he was allowed to be pretty flat in three different directions.)


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#988
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 05:40

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Why does this mean you won't play as one? I mean, for all you know you'll be allowed to move yours in an entirely different direction. (You probably will, actually. Hawke was pretty flat, but he was allowed to be pretty flat in three different directions.)

 

Thank your for that laugh... so true and quite amusing.


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#989
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 05:47

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Why does this mean you won't play as one? I mean, for all you know you'll be allowed to move yours in an entirely different direction. (You probably will, actually. Hawke was pretty flat, but he was allowed to be pretty flat in three different directions.)

 

I have no interest in being a unique snowflake among the Qunari either. I find it more interesting to play someone influenced by some culture or lore or family upbringing. Then building an individual from there. Hawke had plenty of context like this, and wasn't so flat.


#990
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 05:47

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I must be the only one who has zero expectation for DAI. I feel like it's just going to be one massive disappointment. The idea of it puts a knot in my stomach after playing DA2... like a let down coming straight at you and not a thing you can do about it but just steer clear of it.

 

DAO set the bar pretty high. Skyrim added to expectations across the board. I don't really see how DAI could ever live up to either or even both though it appears to be trying, yet it rests on the story and we've seen what they have done with the story. DAO was the best and yet it was flawed. It still was not bad except regarding a few points but beyond those points it was a good story. DA2 was craptastic at best. I mean, it really was some awful story writing. I don't think it could have been worse. So I can't imagine it actually improving.... though with such low expectations I might find myself pleasantly surprised. However, lacking the ability to mod doesn't bode well for it. Right out the the gate that's a flaw in the armor. It feels like freedom has been taken away and fun has been limited. I will be reading all the reviews and spoilers. I just can't take another BW let down. I was so pleasantly surprised with DAO that I want to keep that and not dip back to that unpleasant disappointment I had with ME series and even DA2.`


#991
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 05:57

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I still like DA2, so my expectations are different.

 

What I don't get is people who hate DA2 as much as you, and then have high expectations for DAI.. as if it's going to be a complete 180 or something. This is going to be made for current DA fans first, and then try to win over previous ones second.


#992
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 06:12

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I still like DA2, so my expectations are different.

 

What I don't get is people who hate DA2 as much as you, and then have high expectations for DAI.. as if it's going to be a complete 180 or something. This is going to be made for current DA fans first, and then try to win over previous ones second.

 

I don't hate DA2 though it seems that way. As a game for playing just for kicks it's okay. As part of the DAO series, it sucks. If it had been released as a spin off sort of thing, I would be be like 'okay, not expecting much but it was fun enough' but as a follow up to the first game in part of a trilogy, I guess because if it had been a spin off there would still be hope for a better game as the second in the series, it was disappointing to say the least. All the best of DAO was gone.

 

I don't have high expectations though which I just very clearly stated. I have the lowest expectations humanly possible. I believe it will suck beyond words. I believe it will be limited and narrow. I believe the story will be lame. I believe it will suffer from the same horrible romances of DA2 but probably worse. I believe they will pull some ME3 annoying ending crap. And I believe the tactics will be inferior to DAO and DA2- which DA2 was already inferior in my opinion. I expect I will not be let down because my opinion of it could not be worse based on how I felt about DA2. In fact, I have zero intention of buying it. I peek in the DAI forum now and then to see if there is any info that might change my opinion of it and it seems that I learn more to reaffirm my solid belief that it will suck compared to DAO. Not that it will suck as an overall game, but as part of this trilogy, it will indeed suck by comparison. I don't even really follow any of it. DAO is a one time thing. I peek out of morbid curiosity.... like how one slows down at the scene of a car crash or can't look away from a train wreck.

 

It's not being made for current DA fans. It's being made for mainstream just as ME3 was. It is aiming to garner skyrim audiences, but it will not because skyrim was about much more than the open map. You can tell by how they talk about it that they really are aiming to get skyrim people yet they seem to not comprehend or even begin to grasp why skyrim was the raging success that it was. That they went with frostbite kind of says how clueless they are. A huge amount of why skyrim was so successful was because of the modding support and encouragement on that front. These things fully elude EA/BW. It might do well as a game, but it will not succeed on the scale they are hoping or aiming for.


#993
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 06:17

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It's not part of a trilogy and is a spin off of sorts. It was originally titled Dragon Age: Exodus. And that's essentially what it is.. a story of someone from humble beginnings, escaping the blight, and settling anew. Immigrant makes good. There's cameos and such, but it is it's own story.

 

And thankfully, there's no talk of "trilogies", like Mass Effect. They plan on more games after DAI, apparently.


#994
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 06:33

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It's not part of a trilogy and is a spin off of sorts. It was originally titled Dragon Age: Exodus. And that's essentially what it is.. a story of someone from humble beginnings, escaping the blight, and settling anew. Immigrant makes good. There's cameos and such, but it is it's own story.

 

And thankfully, there's no talk of "trilogies", like Mass Effect. They plan on more games after DAI, apparently.

 

Well they sold it as DA2 essentially. Everything I read about it when it first came out billed it along those lines. They probably backpeddled as they do with most things when they fail. The game did well enough but it was the beginning of the end for BW at least for the hardcore RPG fans. ME3 sealed it for most.

 

Right now they are attempting to gain back all that they lost with hardcore fans. You see, while ME3 might have made money it lost them RPG status. Most true RPGers barely consider it a RPG game. It's only an RPG in its most simplistic sense. And that hit that they took with ME3 really did shake consumer confidence. DAI is viewed by many as their last shot to get it right. ME4 for those who don't follow DA series make that the last shot to get it right of those that are still willing to give them a change. They might well have a good action game but if RPGers don't care for it, then that really is a fail for them because there are so many action games on the market that in order to succeed and stay strong they will have to really do quite well or they will die. It might not seem that way, but the market is getting a lot tougher. Not long ago there was a company that ended up sold in pieces and I forget who it was but it was a surprise to many as they had some good games under their belt.

 

This is why DAI is a big deal. Action games are a dime a dozen. To succeed in this market you need to set yourself apart. Competition is too vast. Having a big name is no longer good enough if it doesn't bring with it the clout and buyer loyalty (which they lost much of with DA2 and ME3). And it's probably why they are breaking this game off from the trilogy idea. They want and need to create a cash cow. It's what they are aiming to do with ME series but yet they are terrified to release ANYTHING about ME4 or whatever they call it because of how they boxed themselves in and pissed off a fair chunk of their most loyal fans. Right now, they just want cash cows. It's why they have gone so mainstream action oriented and why they are making any game after ME3 because by rights, there really shouldn't be a game after ME3 since they essentially crashed and burned the whole thing in one fell swoop.


#995
Mike3207
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 06:40

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I think I read on the DAI forums that they have ideas for 4, but they could do more. I'd say 4 is a good estimate, if things go well with DAI.

 

They really did bill DA2 as the sequel to DAO, and people expected DAO2. They got something totally different. I don't hate DA2 either, but I'm not going to preorder again. I'll wait and see the reaction to DAI when it comes out.


#996
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 06:54

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I think I read on the DAI forums that they have ideas for 4, but they could do more. I'd say 4 is a good estimate, if things go well with DAI.

 

They really did bill DA2 as the sequel to DAO, and people expected DAO2. They got something totally different. I don't hate DA2 either, but I'm not going to preorder again. I'll wait and see the reaction to DAI when it comes out.

 

Preorders are a huge business for these companies. It's guaranteed revenue. Now they cannot count on that and have to count on people's word of mouth and reviews. It's a big change for them and not a good one especially with former fans looking down on them for other games that they feel did not live up to expectations.

 

DA2, again, was not a bad game. But in the grand scheme of things, much of the initials sales were based on DAO and preorders. It feel off steeply after that, at least from the charts I've seen. DAO actually seemed to go strong for a bit with a slight taper and dips and spikes in sales. It didn't start high then dive low as time progressed. Word of mouth seemed to get it more sales it would seem. But it was a really good game. DAI will need that if it is to do well. Lots of people are waiting on the reactions. I think there probably is only a fraction of people that are gung ho to get it. Many are on the fence and will happily write it off if they don't deem it worth the time or money or disappointment.


#997
AlanC9
Posté 27 avril 2014 - 07:39

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How on earth did we get onto this topic?

 

But as long as we're doing this, I was stunned by how much better DA2 was than I expected. And I'm finding it really hard to go back, though part of that has to do with DAO's bugginess on my rig.


#998
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Posté 27 avril 2014 - 07:46

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How on earth did we get onto this topic?

 

But as long as we're doing this, I was stunned by how much better DA2 was than I expected. And I'm finding it really hard to go back, though part of that has to do with DAO's bugginess on my rig.

 

Loghain topics never stay loghain topics. Frankly I think that's a good thing because after a certain point there really isn't much else to say about it.

 

DA2 does run much much better. I had next to no bugs with it. And it was really fun for a game but just flawed for a DA game. I could probably go back and play it now as the game it was/is and really love the heck out of it if I don't remember it's a DA game. I found it amusing and fun but a bit frustrating at times with the never ending waves of bad guys and some unbelievably boring quests... actually a lot of them now that I think of it.

 

DAO gets buggy for me though. There are certain places that bug out most always.... like on my way out of eamon's denerim estate after getting rescue the queen. I always crash going down the steps. ALWAYS. Or when you have the camp attack, that dream crashes my game. I had to delete one of the sequences from the toolset to get past it but then I just downloaded the game again. But that always crashes. It's buggy but worth it. If you know where the bugs are, you can save before them generally speaking. I wonder if it has memory leaks as well. It really chew up a lot of cpu and will crash at times. I have a pretty good rig. But the game at times runs CPU to the max.


#999
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Posté 28 avril 2014 - 12:32

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I maintain my interest because they got me hooked on the lore, characters, and big events in the world. I can't simply "move on" from Dragon Age now. And that's why I like DA2. And that's why I already preordered DAI. Even with it's flaws, it's part of something bigger. Not everything boils down to DAO to me. There's a lot I think is weak about that too.


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#1000
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Posté 28 avril 2014 - 04:25

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I maintain my interest because they got me hooked on the lore, characters, and big events in the world. I can't simply "move on" from Dragon Age now. And that's why I like DA2. And that's why I already preordered DAI. Even with it's flaws, it's part of something bigger. Not everything boils down to DAO to me. There's a lot I think is weak about that too.

 

I can appreciate that. I guess I kind of fell in love with how DAO was. I felt so immersed and it's a rare game that pulls me in like that. I may play them but don't really feel like I'm living them. Sort of like when you read an amazing book... when you are done it's like you lived someone else's life.


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