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[theskymoves]

So the wikia map is wrong about Jader? It has it just above orzammar.... I thought Jader was related to where Riordan was and he was still ferelden? I don't pay full attention to that conversation when you meet him in the dungeon though.

 

Eh well, it doesn't really matter much. I was mostly curious and wondering why they wouldn't even put it on the map.

 

If the wiki map puts Jader north of Orzammar, it's correct. Riordan is a Ferelden native but he serves as a Warden with the Orlesian contingent in Jader. The dialogue when he and Alistair recognize one another is

Riordan: I thank you for creating such distraction, stranger. I have been waiting weeks for this opportunity. Do you think you could--Alistair? Is that you?
Alistair: Who...? Wait. I do know you. You were at my Joining. He's one of us. A Warden from Orlais. Jader, I think. Or was it Montsimmard? I'm afraid I don't remember your name.
Riordan: I'm Riordan, senior Warden of Jader, but born and bred in Highever and glad to be home.
 

[theskymoves]

I lost interest before the post....

 

But thank you for adding the image.

 

Heh. No problem. That exercise was really more to satisfy my own curiosity. (And I'm relatively certain everyone stopped being interested in my posts, a long long time ago.  )

[DarthGizka]

select rr.ResType, mv.Name, mv.Folder, st.Text
   from bw_dragonage_content.dbo.t_StringText st
      inner join bw_dragonage_content.dbo.t_ModuleResRefVersion mv on mv.ID = st.ModuleResRefVersionID
      inner join bw_dragonage_content.dbo.t_ResRef rr on rr.ID = mv.ResRefID
   where Text like '%Jader%'

Or you can poke around in the toolset and follow your nose...

[Jeffonl1]

select rr.ResType, mv.Name, mv.Folder, st.Text
   from bw_dragonage_content.dbo.t_StringText st
      inner join bw_dragonage_content.dbo.t_ModuleResRefVersion mv on mv.ID = st.ModuleResRefVersionID
      inner join bw_dragonage_content.dbo.t_ResRef rr on rr.ID = mv.ResRefID
   where Text like '%Jader%'

Or you can poke around in the toolset and follow your nose...

Darth is rather handy in scripting with SQL...

[gottaloveme]

Die

[AlanC9]

I'm voting die mostly because it makes the DR choice more interesting. If Loghain's alive there's nothing bad you need to get out of, though in a strict RP sense the Warden can't be sure that what ends up happening to Riordan won't also happen to Loghain.

[MrFob]

So, I just went through the Landsmeet with a female mage who romanced Allistair but let Loghain live. And I have to say: What the hell?!"

 

Allistair is really acting like a little ****** in that situation. I was really annoyed that I couldn't talk him into staying, even with Loghain around.

Yes, I get it, Loghain was really a bad person and to some extent he may be seen as responsible for Duncan's death which addmitedly would hit Allistair hard BUT:

We are in a desperate situation here. We have an Archdemon on our hands and 3 Gray Wardens around. Who is to say that even one of us could reach the AD?

On a side note, as far as I am concerned, we should have made as many new GWs as possible. Loghain, Eamon, Irwing, hell, each and every one of my companions as well. Apparently there was enough AD blood around to make at least on joining chalice. OK, maybe the concentration of the blood has to be strong enough or something, so that we could only make one single new GW, I am willing to accept that, so let's drop that side track.

 

Back to Allistair, the entire game he goes on about how slim our chances are and also had the dreams about the AD. He knows exactly what's at stake but still, although he know he's one of the extremely few people who can really make a difference, he walk away? Because of Loghain?

And after all these assurances that he loves the Warden and trusts her and wants to see things through to the end with her, yadda yadda yadda, he doesn't even trust her enough to support her in that one completely logical decision?

 

He puts on this face of the likable honorable guy throughout the entire game and if you just kill Loghain (which is what my other Wardens did), than he even keeps it up until the end but here he shows his true colours and they are not pretty.

I'd even get it if he and the Warden wouldn't get along very well. Then it would be fine but with his approval on maximum and him being the LI, I think there should have been an option to convince him to trust the PC.

[ShadowLordXII]

So, I just went through the Landsmeet with a female mage who romanced Allistair but let Loghain live. And I have to say: What the hell?!"

 

Allistair is really acting like a little ****** in that situation. I was really annoyed that I couldn't talk him into staying, even with Loghain around.

Yes, I get it, Loghain was really a bad person and to some extent he may be seen as responsible for Duncan's death which addmitedly would hit Allistair hard BUT:

We are in a desperate situation here. We have an Archdemon on our hands and 3 Gray Wardens around. Who is to say that even one of us could reach the AD?

On a side note, as far as I am concerned, we should have made as many new GWs as possible. Loghain, Eamon, Irwing, hell, each and every one of my companions as well. Apparently there was enough AD blood around to make at least on joining chalice. OK, maybe the concentration of the blood has to be strong enough or something, so that we could only make one single new GW, I am willing to accept that, so let's drop that side track.

 

Back to Allistair, the entire game he goes on about how slim our chances are and also had the dreams about the AD. He knows exactly what's at stake but still, although he know he's one of the extremely few people who can really make a difference, he walk away? Because of Loghain?

And after all these assurances that he loves the Warden and trusts her and wants to see things through to the end with her, yadda yadda yadda, he doesn't even trust her enough to support her in that one completely logical decision?

 

He puts on this face of the likable honorable guy throughout the entire game and if you just kill Loghain (which is what my other Wardens did), than he even keeps it up until the end but here he shows his true colours and they are not pretty.

I'd even get it if he and the Warden wouldn't get along very well. Then it would be fine but with his approval on maximum and him being the LI, I think there should have been an option to convince him to trust the PC.

 

The whole situation was honestly a hard-written contrivance.

 

What was stopping Riordan from pulling Alistair and the Warden aside for moment and telling them exactly what killing an Archdemon requires? Why doesn't use the "we need as many wardens as possible" line when Anora decides to have Alistair executed? Why did he wait until now to suggest putting Loghain through the Joining instead of bringing it up earlier?

 

There's hidden audio logs with Loghain speaking to Alistair in the party which suggests that it was originally possible to recruit Loghain and keep Alistair. But they likely scrapped it for the sake of "drama".

[TEWR]

I find the relationship between she and her brother are interesting for minor characters.  If asked about his sister, Irminric says 'she makes a much better bann than he would'.  I get the impression it's similar to 'eldest/most capable child inherits the land/title, younger goes into the priesthood'.  Since Thedas really doesn't have male priests per se, a templar is the next best thing I guess.  I would imagine many younger nobles without much chance of inheritance lean toward the chantry/templarhood.

 

I always got the impression that Irminric was the eldest child and forfeited his claim to the lands of Waking Sea Bannorn by joining the Templars, thereby allowing Alfstanna to take it, because of the general gist of what he says that you pointed out -- as opposed to Alfstanna simply being older.

 

His exact quote is that she would've made a far better bann then he ever would have, implying that he was the one next in line.

 

Course, could also be because he was a guy. Who knows with these surfacers.

[sylvanaerie]

So, I just went through the Landsmeet with a female mage who romanced Allistair but let Loghain live. And I have to say: What the hell?!"

 

Allistair is really acting like a little ****** in that situation. I was really annoyed that I couldn't talk him into staying, even with Loghain around.

Yes, I get it, Loghain was really a bad person and to some extent he may be seen as responsible for Duncan's death which addmitedly would hit Allistair hard BUT:

We are in a desperate situation here. We have an Archdemon on our hands and 3 Gray Wardens around. Who is to say that even one of us could reach the AD?

On a side note, as far as I am concerned, we should have made as many new GWs as possible. Loghain, Eamon, Irwing, hell, each and every one of my companions as well. Apparently there was enough AD blood around to make at least on joining chalice. OK, maybe the concentration of the blood has to be strong enough or something, so that we could only make one single new GW, I am willing to accept that, so let's drop that side track.

 

Back to Allistair, the entire game he goes on about how slim our chances are and also had the dreams about the AD. He knows exactly what's at stake but still, although he know he's one of the extremely few people who can really make a difference, he walk away? Because of Loghain?

And after all these assurances that he loves the Warden and trusts her and wants to see things through to the end with her, yadda yadda yadda, he doesn't even trust her enough to support her in that one completely logical decision?

 

He puts on this face of the likable honorable guy throughout the entire game and if you just kill Loghain (which is what my other Wardens did), than he even keeps it up until the end but here he shows his true colours and they are not pretty.

I'd even get it if he and the Warden wouldn't get along very well. Then it would be fine but with his approval on maximum and him being the LI, I think there should have been an option to convince him to trust the PC.

 

The entire game he goes on about the need for wardens, but he also goes on about how he respected Duncan, enjoyed the wardens (finding in them acceptance he's never known before) and how he felt horrid that Loghain just tossed them under a bus.  He also says multiple times he wants Loghain to pay and inducting him into the wardens so Alistair would have to accept him as a brother at arms, accepting this backstabber at his side (trusting him not to kill Alistair or the PC), and generally dismissing his feelings in the matter is something someone he trusts and loves would do to him?

 

You backstabbed him at the Landsmeet when you refused to hand out justice for Loghain's multiple crimes, and then get upset that he says 'no' to your warden?  

Frankly, the fact that you can't just persuade him, or toss him a gift to get his approval shows the character does have a limit to what he will put up with, and IMO adds to the writing.  Romance or no romance, there are some things that just push a person too far. For Alistair, it's Loghain.  May not be logical, may even be stupid considering the dire circumstances you're in, but if people are going to use ignorance of the way an Archdemon dies as an excuse for Loghain's actions, you can't claim Alistair should be privy to it, if Duncan never said anything to him either.

[Xetykins]

But no.

Not really.

He is a 'greater good' character who really wants revenge. Throughout the entire game every choice you make has him as an overseer of the greater good. Keep the golems? Loose 10 with him... or is it more? Don't help redcliffe? I think he gives you negatives there. If he doesn't give you negatives, he will at least stand up for what is right like helping break the werewolf curse. And he refuses to just leave when you bring it up in the warden conversation. But then all of just vanishes because he wants revenge. Screw the greater good which he has stood for all through the game. Forget he would never just leave. If loghain lives, he's going to just say F*** it and not even bother fighting the blight. Ironically, what Riordan does is exactly what Duncan would do, and if Duncan were there, I suspect he'd bi t ch slap him into tomorrow and tell him to simmer down because they need loghain.

Worse is that while he doesn't know the specifics about how the archdemon is killed, when you talk to him upon arriving at ostagar, he says some things that basically show he knows you NEED wardens to kill the archdemon. So if you don't give him revenge, he is content to let all of Ferelden burn. That is the character they created. A childish little puss who when you see this reaction... honestly, I've wanted to gut him myself. It's beyond immature. It's petty and shows a very nasty side of him that does not fit at all with what you've seen especially if you've romanced him. Frankly, if as a PC who romanced him, and then thought we should have all the wardens we need and then got that reaction out of him, I'd have Anora lop off his head because he really just left you high and dry knowing it's a freaking blight that has to be stopped. He'd rather let everything burn... that reaction was when I became very tired of Alistair and started romancing Zevran. Sort of made me realize that if it is in character, then Alistair might seem like a wonderful guy, but really he's no more than an immature boy (which in fairness to the writers this is hinted at in many places and especially when Zevran and he have exchanges). So maybe it is in character... in which case, he is not a man. He is a child in a man's body.

I don't know. If that is his true character and not bad writing... then I've kind of lost all respect for him. Zev is much more mature about things than Alistair is. The boyish charm that turns to a big old tantrum is pretty revolting.

I am really surprised someone who's in your line of work sees Alistair as revolting, child little puss and nasty among other things. You of all people should understand where he comes from. Knows the absolute attachment most abused kids develops to the first person whos given them kindness. Some of them develops obsessive unatural attachments that we always have to investigate if there was any grooming involved. The effect on alistair is deffo much much more subdued to most of the cases I've handled. And makes him alot stronger and more mature than most.

And he is barely out of his teens plus considering his background which added to his naivety.... yes he is still pretty much understandably a child. A child who I pretty much want to drop kick because I want to save the anvil for example. But the landsmeet is pretty much alistair. Hate it or love it. I hated it cuz im such a controlling biiatch who likes to be followed and did not like anyone gainsaying me specially when im the boss in my game. Even if I agree with him.

[Jaison1986]

I am really surprised someone who's in your line of work sees Alistair as revolting, child little puss and nasty among other things. You of all people should understand where he comes from. Knows the absolute attachment most abused kids develops to the first person whos given them kindness. Some of them develops obsessive unatural attachments that we always have to investigate if there was any grooming involved. The effect on alistair is deffo much much more subdued to most of the cases I've handled. And makes him alot stronger and more mature than most.

And he is barely out of his teens plus considering his background which added to his naivety.... yes he is still pretty much understandably a child. A child who I pretty much want to drop kick because I want to save the anvil for example. But the landsmeet is pretty much alistair. Hate it or love it. I hated it cuz im such a controlling biiatch who likes to be followed and did not like anyone gainsaying me specially when im the boss in my game. Even if I agree with him.

 

What I don't understand is why we have this extreme need to do everything an companion wants. If we are to play an warden that bends over and do everything they want, we might as well let someone else lead the party.

[Xetykins]

What I don't understand is why we have this extreme need to do everything an companion wants. If we are to play an warden that bends over and do everything they want, we might as well let someone else lead the party.

I dont know. I know that I dont do all what my companions want like saving the anvil etc. But when we have the same mind about things... why not?

[luna1124]

In my opinion, Loghain should live to join the wardens, then die killing Archy. But in the game, we can't so much have it that way if we care about Alistair. O_o

[theskymoves]

What I don't understand is why we have this extreme need to do everything an companion wants. If we are to play an warden that bends over and do everything they want, we might as well let someone else lead the party.

 

There's no "extreme need to do everything a companion wants". Asking that a companion abandon their wants, needs, and principles in the interest of giving the player character a +100 OMG you are so Awesome Approval in every situation is absurd, and would entirely negate an important aspect of DAO, which is that your actions affect the world and yes, have consequences. There's always the option to do the opposite of what they want, and accept the fall out... just like in real life.  (Try demanding that a co-worker follow your every whim, or insisting that your spouse agree blindly to all your dictates and opinions... and do let us know how well that works out for you.  )

 

I'm THRILLED when a companion pushes back. That approval hit? Makes them more compelling. A companion getting so PO'ed they bail on me? That's what happens in real life when you push someone to the brink... it's one of the things Bioware got right in DAO, IMO. *points at avatar!Alistair*

[Jaison1986]

There's no "extreme need to do everything a companion wants". Asking that a companion abandon their wants, needs, and principles in the interest of giving the player character a +100 OMG you are so Awesome Approval in every situation is absurd, and would entirely negate an important aspect of DAO, which is that your actions affect the world and yes, have consequences. There's always the option to do the opposite of what they want, and accept the fall out... just like in real life.  (Try demanding that a co-worker follow your every whim, or insisting that your spouse agree blindly to all your dictates and opinions... and do let us know how well that works out for you.  )

 

I'm THRILLED when a companion pushes back. That approval hit? Makes them more compelling. A companion getting so PO'ed they bail on me? That's what happens in real life when you push someone to the brink... it's one of the things Bioware got right in DAO, IMO. *points at avatar!Alistair*

 

Of course, it's understable that companions have an breaking point. I just think the situation for it is a bit absurd. Alistair puts up with so many atrocities in the game only for him to quit because for once you decided to stay your blade? Aren't the priorities a little wrong here?

[theskymoves]

Of course, it's understable that companions have an breaking point. I just think the situation for it is a bit absurd. Alistair puts up with so many atrocities in the game only for him to quit because for once you decided to stay your blade? Aren't the priorities a little wrong here?

 

Alistair makes it very very clear, throughout the course of the game, that seeing Loghain pay for what he did at Ostagar is important to him. He also makes it very very clear what his take on being a Grey Warden means and who he thinks deserves to serve with the organisation, from the very start (beginning his dialogue re Daveth)... so no, I think given his character, and everything he says on those subjects makes his reaction and intransigence perfectly in keeping with his character.

 

I'm not saying I agreed with him, I'm saying that his me-or-him reaction makes absolute sense FOR HIS CHARACTER, given that choice. When he gives his ultimatum, Alistair is using his gut, not his head... and that's the way it should be, IMO. People don't always use logic to make important choices, especially in a heated situation.

 

What is your opinion of Morrigan, then? She'll abandon the Warden just because you won't give her an Old God Baby. Aren't her priorities skewed? Isn't the Blight more important than her private war with Flemeth? /snark

[Jaison1986]

Alistair makes it very very clear, throughout the course of the game, that seeing Loghain pay for what he did at Ostagar is important to him. He also makes it very very clear what his take on being a Grey Warden means and who he thinks deserves to serve with the organisation, from the very start (beginning his dialogue re Daveth)... so no, I think given his character, and everything he says on those subjects makes his reaction and intransigence perfectly in keeping with his character.

 

I'm not saying I agreed with him, I'm saying that his me-or-him reaction makes absolute sense FOR HIS CHARACTER, given that choice. When he gives his ultimatum, Alistair is using his gut, not his head... and that's the way it should be, IMO. People don't always use logic to make important choices, especially in a heated situation.

 

What is your opinion of Morrigan, then? She'll abandon the Warden just because you won't give her an Old God Baby. Aren't her priorities skewed? Isn't the Blight more important than her private war with Flemeth? /snark

 

Her priorities are skewed, but then again, isn't that her character? She is selfish. She cares only about things going her way. While Alistair is in contrast selfless and all about making sacrifices for the greater good. So shouldn't he be willing to swallow his personal feeling if it means fulfilling his duties? Not to mention if you don't accept her offer either you or your companion will pay the price. While in the Loghain situation you gain absolutely nothing if you do what Alistair wants.

[Mike3207]

You really have two different things to look at the Landsmeet-the Warden view to recruit as many Wardens as you can, and the whole ending the Civil War/picking a ruler dynamic. I've always felt the writing was a bit disjointed in that respect, particularly with Anora. She favors killing Alistair if her father survives, but lets him live if he dies. As far as the Civil War goes, I think the smart thing to do is pick a ruler, and let the losing side be killed. I mean, you don't want to face more rebellions down the road, do you? That's assuming we don't have our choices overridden in DAI.i think that's one reason the Alistair/Anora choice is so popular-it's a way to end the civil war without bloodshed.

[theskymoves]

Her priorities are skewed, but then again, isn't that her character? She is selfish. She cares only about things going her way. While Alistair is in contrast selfless and all about making sacrifices for the greater good. So shouldn't he be willing to swallow his personal feeling if it means fulfilling his duties? Not to mention if you don't accept her offer either you or your companion will pay the price. While in the Loghain situation you gain absolutely nothing if you do what Alistair wants.

 

 

 

The gain is that you don't lose Alistair. Being relatively selfless and prone to sacrifice doesn't entirely wipe out the ability to be selfish at times and to want something for the sake of wanting it. It just makes it happen with less frequency, or rather, it makes acting on that want less likely.I guess Alistair just can't contain himself in that situation.