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[Pirate Queen Isabela]

LOL!

 

Let's see... this, maybe?
 

Alistair: So, I'm guessing someone told Anora I was planning to steal her throne. She has a nasty glare. She wants to be queen. I get it. I don't trust her any more than her father, but I get it.

Warden: What do you think about her?
Alistair: They say that Anora is smart, determined... she's supposedly the one who's really ruled here, not Cailan. She's her father's daughter. Me, I say that's where the problem lies. People like her and her father always think they're the only ones who can fix things. So everyone should just stay out of their way.

 

Or this, if Loghain is made a GW and Alistair is to marry Anora?

 

Alistair (the direction for these lines is "scoffing, sarcastic; angy, shouting"): Loghain let all the Grey Wardens die, let his king die, all because he thought he alone could defend Ferelden against the dreaded Orlesians! No matter what your plans are, he deserved to die. He deserved justice! And you made him ONE OF US! 

Warden: This is his chance to make things right.
Alistair (direction is "bitter, angry; bitter sarcasm"): No matter what your plans are, he deserved to die. He deserved justice! And you made him ONE OF US! But why should I complain, right? I'm the king now, and with a beautiful fiance who is going to remind me of her father every time I look at her.

 

 

??????

 

So, Alistair groups her and her father together on assumptions? Ehhhh. 

 

It's not Anora's fault that Alistair would think of her like that before even saying anything to her or making an effort to know her. Of course she would feel threatened, she knows what Eamon is thinking and the Warden can either tip the scale to her favour or Alistar.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

She seems like one who is in charge and was probably a good pairing with Cailan because he let her be in charge while he went off an played at being king. You get this impression from what eamon says and what loghain says when you talk to him about her if you recruit him. Generally these types of personalities HAVE to be in charge and don't take well to others even suggesting what they can or should do. It's a control thing. That's why I think it's really not a good pairing if alistair is hardened because she wants it her way and won't let him have his way. Looking at her behavior before you get to the landsmeet - she manipulates you into 'rescuing' and turns on you if you say you were rescuing her to save her own ass. If you are involved with Alistair and try to arrange a marriage she either wants you out of the picture or not doing anything to make her look bad (which some would say any woman would feel that way BUT this is a strictly political marriage and even for show, who cares? It's doing her the favor more than him. But that is not enough for her.) It's about appearances. Her appearance. She can't have you undermining her, making her look weak. She was a good pairing with Cailan because he let Loghain and her run right over him. The one time we know of that he didn't back down he ends up dead. Also, for all the relations she refers to him as having on the side, she was fine with it as long as she was in power. They were a good pairing because she was always in control. Neither version of alistair will work well with her because hardened, based on what we know of her and how he becomes this will lead to power struggles. She is better at it so she will win and he will be miserable. Unhardened she will just run right over him as he is a pushover, let him do what he wants so long as she rules and it will still be her ruling.

 

They gave her a strong personality with a hint of control and a chunk of manipulation. Does anyone really think this is a good pair for alistair? That he will have ANY influence with her nevermind if he could actually be anything but miserable in a marriage with this kind of person given he seems to need a bit of coddling and assurance and kindness moreso than the average person? It's like sticking him back in the chantry really.

 

I'm not even talking about the marriage on a romantic level but just living with her and being around her... having general conversations with her.... well we saw how our conversations with him go if we didn't coddle him or always answer in a manner that is sensitive to him. Does she really strike ANYONE as being a particularly sensitive type? She's very straight forward when she is not working some manipulative self benefiting edge. That will not be good for alistair and certainly doesn't bode well for the two ruling together as a team. The fact that she never marries if ruling alone kind of implies all of this and also speaks volumes about what she would be like. Nobody could live up to dear old dad. Well, how do you think that would serve alistair to be compared to the man he hated?

 

 

I strongly dislike the fact people coddle Alistair in general. He needs to learn the world does not revolve around him. What about Anora who was a pawn to all of this, betrayed by her own father? And are you really excusing, Cailan? Anora who was fated to marry Cailan who often beds multiple women? Cailan who was having an affair with Celene? Anora the "commoner who was cursed with infertility"? He was disgusting and I'm glad he died. Also, key point, Loghain said to draw the Darkspawn to him not charge into a battle reckless and blind, like Cailan did. 

 

Anora doesn't need to project a sensitive attitude into her workplace. Neither the Warden or Alistair is someone she trusts, why would she be emotionally vulnerable towards them? You can't judge a characters sensitivity like that, especially with how Anora is such a minor character that even the writers ignore. She is still a person with emotions, her reaction to Loghain's death being the key part.

 

Also... the manipulating part? She didn't manipulate you. You betrayed her. She said clearly not to tell them she was with you, big capital letters, and if you do, that is when she will turn on you. Because you turned on her first.

[Xetykins]

Is it coodling though if you happen to think the way he thinks tho? I.e the landsmeet and anora. Granted I just think anora is a shrew and conniving but I've only met her for 2 mins of the whole 80 hrs of the game,but thats pretty much my impression.

I put her on the throne half the time tho, cuz hey I'll deal with the archdemon, then im off for a good night at the pearl with alistair.

[Xetykins]

Most of my characters feel for him and understand his feelings. Even though I debate the other side of it as I can see it from both sides, sort of what I'm trained to do, I can definitely see his side of it and on for about two weeks of it was I tired of agreeing with him. I think I was particularly cranky those two weeks. I'm sure you remember the posts or are trying to forget them This is for the non landsmeet stuff. Generally they feel for him though at times they might point out he is whining because they are in a romance with him and don't really find that all too attractive. But yeah, they empathize and now they always kill isolde for what she did to him. And they love sticking it to eamon because he's no better. I don't think empathizing with him is coddling him, but that's kind of my point. Anora would have to coddle him because of how she is. Not that he should be coddled but if she lacks empathy toward the crappy life he had or him in general for the loss he suffered at the hands of her father which she idolizes, that will never make for a good pair. That the game totally dismisses that by giving fairytale-ish epilogues for these two makes it feel more like a disney movie than the actual game I just played.
 
Edited add: If you want to see what really would happen, watch GoT and see what Sansa is like when stuck with Geoffry. Granted, he's a beast devil child/king but that show gives you blunt truth. See how those characters are and how they handle what happens and you have a good yardstick to compare against DAO. DAO lacks the reality of things that GoT does. But GoT comes from a great writer and two great adapting writers.
 
For landsmeet kill loghain option I have taken his side all but I think two times (male noble and another menace character that butted heads with alistair on everything). Actually, most of the time it's my pc killing loghain because that's their own thinking. A few times I did it for him. Mostly my characters think he should be dead. That's not coddling at all.

I've read all the books :-) that was enough butchery for me thank you!

[KaiserShep]

I think it's best to go on a killing spree as an elf. Show those filthy shems what's what.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Right now this elf throws out fireballs on nightmare level and kills her team more often than not. Then revives them of course. But the injuries they get, it's hysterical. They are literally the walking wounded. Alistair had about 12 injuries last time I looked. No injury kits either. Whoops. It's so funny. I love it. Being a menace is good fun!

Does she know Cleansing Aura?

[AlanC9]

The epilogues say otherwise, but again, that is fiction. 

 

 

And the rest of the game isn't?

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

I see her as they made her. She manipulates you into saving her so she can get you as an ally and admits as much along with loghain. I think if you ask her in the study with eamon she basically tells you this. That is the main manipulation I speak of. Are you still not clear that she manipulates you to save her? She doesn't need saving. She has her elf servant come and set the whole thing up when really all they were doing was holding her there. Howe was never going to harm her because loghain, despite all he does, would lop his head off without second thought. And loghain was never going to harm her either. He just wanted her where she could not cause issue. Notice, she's in a rather nice room. Not the dungeon.... And the ONLY reason you end up recusing her is for fear she will be killed and you will be blamed. Push on the refusal aspect and you see you have to do it because if you don't Eamon believes loghain will use it against you but this is based on the story Anora planned to have this elf tell him. It's a set up and she uses you to get her out so she can make her play for power. Then she aims to use you again as her voice in the landsmeet after she just had you rescue her for no good reason but to serve her own self interest. That's one hell of a woman right there. Conniving and manipulative who immediately wants to shove Alistair out of the picture from the moment she arrives at eamon's estate.

 

I don't coddle alistair but I'm sure as hell not going to stick him with the woman whose father murdered all the wardens. That would be akin to me marrying you off to the child of someone who murdered whatever group you are closet to. Would that work for you? No?

 

Eh well, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm pointing out all that is evident in the game. Marrying her to alistair is what they want you to do. Run the game through the debug program and you know what happens? It goes to the default settings and marries anora to Alistair. That is because this is what they want. And they make the epilogues look like it is the best scenario aside from a male noble with Anora. However, they should have been a bit wiser in how they created her because there's enough evidence to show she would not be an ideal pair with anyone. Never marrying because she compares everyone to her father is kind of a good clue about that. Putting alistair with her will only remind each of them of what they lost, especially if you lop off Loghain's head. You think she would really bother being nice to him in private after that? He was a warden and a warden killed her dad.

 

Just to be clear, I put her on the throne more often than not. If I am a female noble she's out. Otherwise she is the ruler no matter what PC I run except the one time I did marry them and a few times my elf made him the king to help her people. Otherwise, he is a warden and she rules. I see no reason for her not to rule, but I won't pretend that she and alistair are some glorious ruling pair when personality wise based on all we know of the two if you actually dig in to learn more about anora and have paid attention to what alistair has said, this is a god awful pairing where he will likely have zero influence and be miserable for having to see the daughter of the man who killed the people he really cared about on a daily basis. She is the one who benefits from this. The epilogues say otherwise, but again, that is fiction. They should have paid more attention to how they created her character if they wanted everyone to believe it would actually be a good pairing. Now mind you, I can see the warden human noble being an excellent pair with her. That I have no doubt of. But alistair and anora? Not a chance.

 

1. That isn't true. Anora doesn't know, you're metagaming this part. You can't expect Anora to know what you know. At that point, she knows her father is going coo-coo, that she can't trust him. Howe is a snake as she calls him, and her father tossed her to him. Howe was doing many things that Loghain didn't approve of and Loghain was gonna be trialed by the Warden meaning he'd be busy, what was stopping him, truly? Anora was afraid and she needed help, and Warden can use her to set Loghain back. 

 

You won't be blamed for rescuing her, you'll be blamed for doing something she tells you clearly not to do. She tells you not to tell her father's (you know the one who locked her up) personal guard that she is Anora. She is disguised for a reason.

 

 

Anora: Father.

* a cool greeting to her estranged father

 

(..)

 

Anora: Don't... wait too long, then.

* a bit awkward, she'd like to be on better terms with her father but it's just impossible right now

 

 

 

It's obvious it's a huge strain on her and her father's relationship.

 

 

 

2+ 3.

Anora isn't a kid, she doesn't hate all Warden's for killing her father. She isn't petty like Alistair, who makes assumptions on Anora based on her father. And if you're gonna say that, then why sympathise with Alistair on something so far-fetched like "boo hoo, her dad killed my friends!" than "this dude i'm marrying looks like my ex husband who cheated on me and also he and his friends killed my father." I love Alistair but he is so flawed. He can't judge someone based on what their father did, it's not Anora's fault. She lost her husband and her father, and was betrayed.

[Corker]

Alistair: They say that Anora is smart, determined... she's supposedly the one who's really ruled here, not Cailan. She's her father's daughter. Me, I say that's where the problem lies. People like her and her father always think they're the only ones who can fix things. So everyone should just stay out of their way.

I always wondered if the irony there was intentional or not. Because the story of the Hero of Ferelden is all about being the only one who can fix things, so everyone else should get out of their way or get behind their banner.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Far be it from me to jump into this, but I think Alistair only makes assumptions on Anora based on her father if you harden him. When I brought Alistair to the Landsmeet unhardened, he was actually very trusting and idealistic. Ask him about Anora, and he'll pretty much say he has no problem with her, she's a great queen, she can keep ruling and he'll be fine with it. In fact, Alistair doesn't fully understand why Eamon wants to replace her with him.

 

When Hardened? Alistair becomes much more cranky and distrusting toward her, and really everyone. In fact, I hate Hardening Alistair specifically because he's just so moody and suspicious of everyone all the time. While an unhardened Alistair more or less tries to see the good in everyone (to an annoying naive extent, many think), Hardened Alistair starts judging and suspecting people right and left. He always thinks someone is up to no good, always thinks someone is out to get all they can, etc. I hate dealing with him when he's hardened. He's just so unpleasant to be around, and his suspicion of Anora because of her father is no exception.

 

I don't know if you've done the Landsmeet with an unhardened Alistair or not, but since you mentioned how he judges her poorly, I just wanted to point out he doesn't persecute poor Anora during the playthroughs I've done with him unhardened. (Heck, it was partly on his favorable view of her that my "canon" Warden decided to let her rule alone.)

 

 

Ahhh, that's great. I don't harden Alistair or Leliana, honestly. I prefer Anora ruling alone because she truly deserves it and Alistair just does not want it, period. (unless hardened ofc) I just like the idea of their political arrangement because the Elves don't riot, I really want the elves to be safe.

 

I would like to think nonhardened Alistair is canon, tbh. And that Anora rules for a long time and Alistair and her respect each other as time goes on.

[kalasaurus]

Does an unhardened Alistair say that? I don't remember.

 

No, he'll only say that before the Landsmeet when he's hardened.