3201 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike3207]

I think people pay way too much attention to the epilogues.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Again you seem to not understand. Her dialogue when you return to eamon's study .... I think if you go down the 'why did we rescue you' path is basically about her goals or whatever. I don't remember it specifically but it becomes clear that she was not in actual danger. I don't remember specifically what she says but it was clear that she was doing this to enlist your aid toward her goals. I'll have to look at the toolset as I don't have a game where I can go to that...oh wait, I think I have one that might have a save near it.... But basically she sets it up with her elf servant so that you are convinced by eamon to rescue her or loghain might do something to her and blame you. The elf was sent by anora. Then when you return to eamon's study after the rescue the dialogue can unfold so that you learn that really it was all about her getting your aid using you as an ally. It's not as obvious as her saying 'no I wasn't in danger' but it's pretty much there. I think it's down the 'why did we rescue you' path. I learned it in game and was pissed when I realized she just manipulated me and was aiming for another go.

 

Huh, I don't remember this. I'd love to know what she says. 0:

[Mike3207]

It's not the Loghain dialogue in camp when you ask him if Anora was in any danger, is it?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think people pay way too much attention to the epilogues.

Well, at the moment they're what we have. And Gaider didn't say there wasn't truth there, he just said he didn't feel bound by any of it.

[kalasaurus]

Again you seem to not understand. Her dialogue when you return to eamon's study .... I think if you go down the 'why did we rescue you' path is basically about her goals or whatever. I don't remember it specifically but it becomes clear that she was not in actual danger. I don't remember specifically what she says but it was clear that she was doing this to enlist your aid toward her goals. I'll have to look at the toolset as I don't have a game where I can go to that...oh wait, I think I have one that might have a save near it.... But basically she sets it up with her elf servant so that you are convinced by eamon to rescue her or loghain might do something to her and blame you. The elf was sent by anora. Then when you return to eamon's study after the rescue the dialogue can unfold so that you learn that really it was all about her getting your aid using you as an ally. It's not as obvious as her saying 'no I wasn't in danger' but it's pretty much there. I think it's down the 'why did we rescue you' path. I learned it in game and was pissed when I realized she just manipulated me and was aiming for another go.

 

Huh, I remember Eamon asking Anora why she didn't have just her handmaiden tell them about the elven alienage, and Anora says it's because she wanted to talk in person about an alliance as well.  You think that Anora also set up the whole rescue situation so she could meet with them, give them some ammunition against Loghain, and propose joining forces?  Hmm I suppose that's possible *shrugs*

 

edit: nevermind, you quoted it.  Still, she may have hoped to side with the Wardens after their rescue.  It's quite possible she was in danger.  Loghain isn't the most reliable or impartial of sources on the matter.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It's quite possible she was in danger.  Loghain isn't the most reliable or impartial of sources on the matter.

I tend to believe Loghain wasn't inclined to kill Anora. On the other hand, it was Howe who had her, not Loghain, and we know Loghain was never in complete control of that bastard.

[kalasaurus]

I tend to believe Loghain wasn't inclined to kill Anora. On the other hand, it was Howe who had her, not Loghain, and we know Loghain was never in complete control of that bastard.

 

True. Loghain may not have intended to kill her, but Anora was beginning to question him and he may have had her locked away with Howe to shut her up.   It's possible that Anora felt in danger under Howe's "care".

 

I know I'm just speculating, though.  There isn't much to go on.

[kalasaurus]

Still, Anora was locked in a room that Howe had sealed by magic.  At the very least, she was being held as a political prisoner by Howe.  I'm still convinced that Anora legitimately felt in danger.

 

Even if Loghain never intended for him or Howe to harm Anora, Anora was held captive against her will regardless.  She was in a situation that warranted rescuing.  And after said rescuing, she wanted to side with the Wardens if they sided with her in an alliance.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Hmm, yeah, I agree with Kalalala, while she sent Erlina she also felt real danger there.

 

And IDK if I really trust Loghain's narrative, I'm gonna say that Anora was thinking of her safety and that of Fereldan's at the same time so it was politics and her safety and not trust Loghain.

[Xetykins]

I dont believe howe managed to kidnap anora from the palace. And Anora is smart enough not to go to howe for any reason. So why was she at howe's again knowing all his antics she cant possibly think he'd erm protect her from her father. And she's even privy about the joining, there is no way in hell she is clueless about howe.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I dont believe howe managed to kidnap anora from the palace. And Anora is smart enough not to go to howe for any reason.

If both of these were true, the only reason for her to be there would be because Loghain handed her over to Howe. Which probably isn't the case given that if it was, Anora would probably have said that rather than admitting to going to Howe willingly. She's trying to betray her father to the Warden, and that would have helped her credibility more than the story she gave.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I suspect Anora engineered her own 'capture' by going to Denerim Estate herself and saying something that prompted Howe to (magically) lock her up. She only had to organise this when the Warden shows up in Denerim with Eamon, so it's probable she wasn't in Howe's custody for very long.

 

Was she in any real danger? Don't know. On one hand I believe Anora's too smart to put herself in any position that'd seriously endanger herself so she probably believed she'd be ok. I doubt Howe needed her for leverage...Loghain was agreeing with most/all of his proposals anyway.

 

 

Though she must have said something serious enough to warrant him locking her damn door with magic.

 

Edit: If it was Loghain himself who wanted her locked up there's no reason why that couldn't have happened in the palace.

[Tommy6860]

 

I suspect Anora engineered her own 'capture' by going to Denerim Estate herself and saying something that prompted Howe to (magically) lock her up. She only had to organise this when the Warden shows up in Denerim with Eamon, so it's probable she wasn't in Howe's custody for very long.

 

Was she in any real danger? Don't know. On one hand I believe Anora's too smart to put herself in any position that'd seriously endanger herself so she probably believed she'd be ok. I doubt Howe needed her for leverage...Loghain was agreeing with most/all of his proposals anyway.

 

 

Though she must have said something serious enough to warrant him locking her damn door with magic.

 

Edit: If it was Loghain himself who wanted her locked up there's no reason why that couldn't have happened in the palace.

 

 Which reminds me of the cutscene where Anora, Howe and Loghain are discussing the seriousness of the blight combined with an impending civil war. Anora asked her father if he killed Cailan and the answer he gave is cause for her to raise here arms in disgust and storm out of the scene. That  possibly would have been enough for Loghain to consider shutting her away as she still had great power.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

 Which reminds me of the cutscene where Anora, Howe and Loghain are discussing the seriousness of the blight combined with an impending civil war. Anora asked her father if he killed Cailan and the answer he gave is cause for her to raise here arms in disgust and storm out of the scene. That  possibly would have been enough for Loghain to consider shutting her away as she still had great power.

 

I remember that scene (though I don't recall Howe being in it, it's been a while). I'm not convinced Anora had a great deal of power while Ferelden was effectively under martial law. She definitely could have thrown a spanner in the works, and does just that if you pick the right choices, but it's shown in a cutscene where she appeals to Bann Teagan that the nobles are divided: She is not the ruler, and her own father is being blamed for the king's death.

 

 

And now from loghain... (I have screenshots of it as well!)

 

PC: Were you really going to kill Anora?

 

Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.

 

PC: I new I shouldn't have trusted her.

 

Loghain: It took you this long to determine that? I'm surprised.

 

PC: So I broke into the royal palace for nothing?

 

Loghain: Well, I'm sure having you come to her rescue gave Anora no small amount of pleasure.

 

Or with different PC choices..... Round two:

 

PC: Were you really going to kill Anora?

 

Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.

 

PC: Why would she invent such a story?

 

Loghain: Anora is a politician at heart. There's one thing she knows: it's how to move people.

 

PC: Why me though?

 

Loghain: Is that a serious question? Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the landsmeet?

 

 

 

There's also a change in the dialogue if Loghain is at Friendly status: 

 

In that, he tells you that Howe suggested killing Anora and that he, Loghain, naturally refused. He also said that this incident served as the inspiration for the story Anora tells you about her life being in danger from her father.

[Ryzaki]

Of course she played everyone. She's a politician

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

I agree with this. I don't find her to be a bad rule though it would be nice if the elves were treated better. I just see what she does, how you are manipulated into saving her for no reason but to aide her in regaining rule.

 

I just don't see that Alistair would have any real influence with her or to help the elves. The way she is designed based on information we learn through her and loghain at some point and both with alistair hardened and unhardened, well I've been counselor to both these type of couples. The woman in charge with the power who has not much respect for the husband (whether he stands up to her - see hardened alistair or not which would be unhardened) and it is not a good match. The only person who is a good match for this kind of woman is one who is very happy as the submissive as she is the dominant and therefore never questions or challenges her in any way or one who is on absolute equal footing, a strong sense of self and doesn't let her dominate him or their domain. They might still butt heads, but she will respect him and it can work well. This is why a match with the warden makes sense. But alistair is too much of a good guy/submissive with a feminine energy and sensitive type that her type of dominant personality would run right over him. That never ends well. Usually there is loathing involved. Contempt. It can be quite ugly.

 

 

I just had to.