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[theskymoves]

I think Howe sent the supply to Amaranthine.There's more than enough archdemon blood there for them to do all the Joinings for them and their friends.

 

I think it's more likely that the Orlesian Wardens brought that archdemon blood with them.

[gottaloveme]

I think that AD blood at Amaranthine may have come from the dude we just killed.  But if you wanted to make Loghain a warden or had volunteers at the Landsmeet ... wherefore art thou archdemon blood?

[TheMadHarridan]

My guess is either Loghain stole the Denerim vault's AD blood and locked it away, or he told Howe to take it and knew where he stashed it. When the time came to make him a Warden, he returned it to Riordan and drank his blood smoothie like a good boy. 

 

However, if Loghain is killed at the Landsmeet, I'm assuming the Ferelden wardens had to wait for fresh blood from the corpse of the current archdemon because I highly doubt Loghain revealed what happened to the vault's blood supply before he died.

 

Just imagine: The Warden standing over the Archdemon's body with a giant syringe. The image makes me giggle.

[DesstinyMaker]

That m

 

My guess is either Loghain stole the Denerim vault's AD blood and locked it away, or he told Howe to take it and knew where he stashed it. When the time came to make him a Warden, he returned it to Riordan and drank his blood smoothie like a good boy. 

 

However, if Loghain is killed at the Landsmeet, I'm assuming the Ferelden wardens had to wait for fresh blood from the corpse of the current archdemon because I highly doubt Loghain revealed what happened to the vault's blood supply before he died.

 

Just imagine: The Warden standing over the Archdemon's body with a giant syringe. The image makes me giggle.

This is a good theory.  It may explain why Riordan was so specific about demanding that Loghain be made a Grey Warden; it was the only way to get to the stash of blood. If that is the case, then once again it is the Warden's secrecy, and their refusal to let Alistair in on the details, that led to the epic fail here. He thinks Loghain's about to be rewarded for his crimes, and all Riordan really wants to know is how to get the stuff he needs to make more Wardens.

 

I have another comment on something that is widely regarded as a huge failing on Alistair's part - his mistaken conviction that being chosen for the Grey Wardens is an honor reserved for good people.  We must consider how he comes about his information and what he's been told.

 

Alistair has been raised by Ferelden nobility, even if as a servant. Look at the reactions of Ferelden nobility to the concept of the Grey Wardens. Look at the Cousland family before Howe massacres them; little Oren is told stories about how heroic they are, and he is excited at the idea of griffons.  Ser Gilmore is just itching to get recruited; it's his life's dream. Ser Jory wins his "chance" to be recruited the same way Alistair did, through a tournament, and he keeps fretting because he doesn't understand why he hasn't earned his place yet. I would like to suggest that the recruitment strategy the Wardens use to draw in nobles and knights is to make them think they are taking part in something really heroic and honorable.  They don't find out about all the thugs and criminals they will be working with until after they've taken the plunge and it's too late for them to back out.  The Grey Wardens tell different people whatever story they want to hear that might make them willing to join - and then once they are in, it's almost impossible for them to escape.

 

Alistair was lied to. He believed what he was told.  Gilmore, Fergus and Jory believed the same story.

[DesstinyMaker]

While I was playing Awakenings, I ran across a couple of scenes that put this whole question into another interesting perspective.  One of the things that was debated near the beginning of this thread was whether Loghain's undisputed crimes were worthy of execution.

 

1. Slavery

2. Poisoning Arl Eamon.

 

When my Warden is in Vigil's Keep, she's asked to rule on whether people will be executed for stealing bread.

 

Stealing food is an executable offense in this world.  It wouldn't be in ours, but it is in Ferelden.  If I am a Ferelden living with Ferelden mores, that's the standard of justice that's going to occur to me.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

While I was playing Awakenings, I ran across a couple of scenes that put this whole question into another interesting perspective.  One of the things that was debated near the beginning of this thread was whether Loghain's undisputed crimes were worthy of execution.

 

1. Slavery

2. Poisoning Arl Eamon.

 

When my Warden is in Vigil's Keep, she's asked to rule on whether people will be executed for stealing bread.

 

Stealing food is an executable offense in this world.  It wouldn't be in ours, but it is in Ferelden.  If I am a Ferelden living with Ferelden mores, that's the standard of justice that's going to occur to me.

Stealing food from the crown is an executable offense in this world, I think. If I remember correctly, Varel's comment on this is "Poor bugger. If he'd stolen from anyone else he'd have escaped with a flogging." Of course Loghain is a bit worse than a thief anyway (even if we leave out the disputable crime of treason, which I am inclined to do), and as for your perception that Ferelden law is particularly bloodthirsty, let's not forget that you can execute a legally innocent man (Ser Temmerly) and nobody bats an eye (on-screen, anyway.)

 

 

 

I hate the ruling bits though. I feel so out of place on my favorite characters (Dalish elf and elf mage). They don't belong there.

 

I had one of my characters (I think it was my first DE) simply tell Varel to do it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dogs are awesome.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Some would prefer death to being forcibly brainwashed, I think. :/

[Tommy6860]

Some would prefer death to being forcibly brainwashed, I think. :/

 

If one's birthright or upbringing has them indoctrinated in some manner or another, would it still be brainwashing? I don't see much of any freethinking aspects in the DA universe, accept for maybe Morrigan or Zev.

[Ryzaki]

If one's birthright or upbringing has them indoctrinated in some manner or another, would it still be brainwashing? I don't see much of any freethinking aspects in the DA universe, accept for maybe Morrigan or Zev.

 

Morrigan's indoctrinated by Flemeth though no? She pretty much believes what Flemeth groomed her to.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If one's birthright or upbringing has them indoctrinated in some manner or another, would it still be brainwashing? I don't see much of any freethinking aspects in the DA universe, accept for maybe Morrigan or Zev.

Yes, but the Qunari take it a bit far. They indoctrinate captured enemies, and if they have any real trouble with one they qamek the poor bastard.

[Tommy6860]

Morrigan's indoctrinated by Flemeth though no? She pretty much believes what Flemeth groomed her to.

 

Morrigan uses logic and practicality in her views. I hardly get anything remotely being indoctrinated in the free thinking dialogue with her. Hell, even Flemeth is somewhat of a freethinker, not subject to the whims of beliefs and superstitions. Even so, her freedom of thought allows for her to want Flemeth killed for being the maleficar that wants to possess her. Still, though, In the end, Morrigan has a lot to answer for with her wanting to conceive the OGB.

[Tommy6860]

Yes, but the Qunari take it a bit far. They indoctrinate captured enemies, and if they have any real trouble with one they qamek the poor bastard.

I didn't dispute that

[Ryzaki]

Morrigan uses logic and practicality in her views. I hardly get anything remotely being indoctrinated in the free thinking dialogue with her. Hell, even Flemeth is somewhat of a freethinker, not subject to the whims of beliefs and superstitions. Even so, her freedom of thought allows for her to want Flemeth killed for being the maleficar that wants to possess her. Still, though, In the end, Morrigan has a lot to answer for with her wanting to conceive the OGB.

 

Her treatment of Alistair isn't very practical or logical. (especially not when she has to ask the FemWarden for help convincing him to do the DR with her). And of course Flemeth is a free thinker she's an ancient powerful being why wouldn't she be.

 

I'm pretty sure Flemeth wanting to possess her was bullshit Morrigan pulled out her ass.

 

My comparison was how Morrigan clings to the whole survival above all else, don't tolerate fools or weakness, power is the only thing with meaning lessons she learned from Flemeth. She's as much as in chains as the rest of the cast.

[KaiserShep]

Stealing food from the crown is an executable offense in this world, I think. If I remember correctly, Varel's comment on this is "Poor bugger. If he'd stolen from anyone else he'd have escaped with a flogging." Of course Loghain is a bit worse than a thief anyway (even if we leave out the disputable crime of treason, which I am inclined to do), and as for your perception that Ferelden law is particularly bloodthirsty, let's not forget that you can execute a legally innocent man (Ser Temmerly) and nobody bats an eye (on-screen, anyway.)

 

 

 

I had one of my characters (I think it was my first DE) simply tell Varel to do it.

 

I always found this bit to be the most interesting and satisfying part of Awakenings. I felt like my bloodlusting trigger finger was itching, but I couldn't help but be merciful toward the sheepherder, and figured that he and everyone else might be better off conscripted into the army (I was glad to see how that played out in the epilogue), but I always execute Ser Tammerly. I suppose some of it had to do with the fact that his demeanor did him no favors. While that's not really a good reason to chop someone's head off, in a setting where savages run free and wield lots of power, making a few heads roll might be a necessary response. I also found it satisfying to nullify Rendon Howe's contract with Lady Packton as a human noble Warden.

[Tommy6860]

Her treatment of Alistair isn't very practical or logical. (especially not when she has to ask the FemWarden for help convincing him to do the DR with her). And of course Flemeth is a free thinker she's an ancient powerful being why wouldn't she be.

 

I'm pretty sure Flemeth wanting to possess her was bullshit Morrigan pulled out her ass.

 

My comparison was how Morrigan clings to the whole survival above all else, don't tolerate fools or weakness, power is the only thing with meaning lessons she learned from Flemeth. She's as much as in chains as the rest of the cast.

 

Sounds like your own headcanon to me :/. Her treatment of Alistair has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, so why sidetrack now? As an aside, if you actually followed the Morrigan/Alistair dialogue from the start, she was practical about that as well and that doesn't change no matter how you write it in your head. I will admit that as time went on, it became boorish on how Morrigan treated Alistair.

[Ryzaki]

Sounds like your own headcanon to me :/. Her treatment of Alistair has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, so why sidetrack now? As an aside, if you actually followed the Morrigan/Alistair dialogue from the start, she was practical about that as well and that doesn't change no matter how you write it in your head. I will admit that as time went on, it became boorish on how Morrigan treated Alistair.

 

Um...because you're trying to say she's a logical and practical person about it. How exactly is her following what she called her mother's teachings headcanon? Her being completely impractical in her treatement of Alistair doesn't change no matter how you write it in your head.

 

Also the Flemeth thing is not headcanon. Pretty sure in those who speak it's confirmed that no Flemeth had no interest in taking Morrigan's body (especially considering another of her sisters is running around just fine.) Even in DAO Flemeth laughs and go "So that's what she told you?"

 

As for following what Flemeth taught her. Morrigan constantly mentions how power and survival were the two lessons Flemeth drilled into her head. That and manipulation. Are you *honestly* saying she *doesn't* do that in DAO?

 

My whole issue is the "she uses logic and practicality in her views so she's a free thinker unlike the rest of the cast" when...that's not the case. She's just as misguided as everyone else just in different ways.

 

And from the start they both acting like two kids on the playground who didn't like each other. Alistair was judgmental and she poked at wounds. It just got worse was all.

[Tommy6860]

Um...because you're trying to say she's a logical and practical person about it. How exactly is her following what she called her mother's teachings headcanon? Her being completely impractical in her treatement of Alistair doesn't change no matter how you write it in your head.

 

Also the Flemeth thing is not headcanon. Pretty sure in those who speak it's confirmed that no Flemeth had no interest in taking Morrigan's body (especially considering another of her sisters is running around just fine.)

 

And from the start they both acting like two kids on the playground who didn't like each other. Alistair was judgmental and she poked at wounds. It just got worse was all.

 

I am not one to argue, but these are your words, "I'm pretty sure Flemeth wanting to possess her was bullshit Morrigan pulled out her ass."

 

Headcanon, no? Keep in mind, Morrigan stated on how Alistair acted after they were saved from the Tower of Ishal that he didn't seem to be of the Grey Wardens that the legends noted (paraphrasing). That one statement she made stuck with me most of the game, she was practical.

[Ryzaki]

I am not one to argue, but these are your words, "I'm pretty sure Flemeth wanting to possess her was bullshit Morrigan pulled out her ass."

 

Headcanon, no? Keep in mind, Morrigan stated on how Alistair acted after they were saved from the Tower of Ishal that he didn't seem to be of the Grey Wardens that the legends noted (paraphrasing). That one statement she made stuck with me most of the game, she was practical.

 

Cause I am. I edited why I believe so. Those who speak pretty much blows the possessing daughters body bit.

 

True I only put it there because it hasn't been blatantly confirmed but it's pretty close to it though. ? How is that one statement making mocking and belittling him practical? (I'm not saying Morrigan wasn't practical but when it came to Alistair? Nope not at all). She could be very stupid evil at times.

[Ryzaki]

I think Morrigan is independent from her mother in many ways. There's a side to Flemeth that wanted more respect from her, I think.

 

Hawke: Good point.

 

Flemeth: If you knew my Morrigan, you'd know how little I hear that.

 

I think Flemeth taught her survival, but not so sure she wanted the fussy mother/daughter relationship it turned out to be. Morrigan basically tells her she wants Flemeth to die right to her face. "I hear the peace of the grave is eternal."

 

Flemeth is actually happy to just be alone and eat her stew.

 

Fair enough. I got the feeling Flemeth was playing a role for all of them Morrigan included.

 

True she does but considering Flemeth can go "more likely you'll see me and my hut completely swallowed by the blight." and Morrigan stutters "all I meant was..." I'm not sure she actually is that antagonist to Flemeth at the beginning.

 

Though yeah Flemeth does seem the type to want people around her to GTFO.

 

Really my whole issue is the attempting to prop Morrigan as some uber independent figure compared to the rest of the companions cause it's just not true to me. They all had pretty rough childhood and crappy belief systems influenced by their childhood. Morrigan doesn't attempt to break free from that anymore than say Leliana does. Sten of course is one of the more indoctrinated companions but that's by virtue of being Qunari.