3201 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaison1986]

Fair enough. I got the feeling Flemeth was playing a role for all of them Morrigan included.

 

True she does but considering Flemeth can go "more likely you'll see me and my hut completely swallowed by the blight." and Morrigan stutters "all I meant was..." I'm not sure she actually is that antagonist to Flemeth at the beginning.

 

Though yeah Flemeth does seem the type to want people around her to GTFO.

 

Really my whole issue is the attempting to prop Morrigan as some uber independent figure compared to the rest of the companions cause it's just not true to me. They all had pretty rough childhood and crappy belief systems influenced by their childhood. Morrigan doesn't attempt to break free from that anymore than say Leliana does. Sten of course is one of the more indoctrinated companions but that's by virtue of being Qunari.

 

I don't trust either of them. I simply choose to help Morrigan because she was fighting with me in the frontlines while Flemeth just sits on her ass expecting me to do all the job. I at least help the one that is being useful. And to be honest, I think Shale is the only companions with an set mind without the influence of other. I guess that's why I like her so much.

 

And strangly, Sten is more resonable then most companions, since he enjoys to inteligently debate his views with you while other companions simply want you to be agreeable.

[Ryzaki]

I don't trust either of them. I simply choose to help Morrigan because she was fighting with me in the frontlines while Flemeth just sits on her ass expecting me to do all the job. I at least help the one that is being useful. And to be honest, I think Shale is the only companions with an set mind without the influence of other. I guess that's why I like her so much.

 

And strangly, Sten is more resonable then most companions, since he enjoys to inteligently debate his views with you while other companions simply want you to be agreeable.

Fair enough XD

 

And agreed. Shale's awesome.

 

He is. I'm bummed about him being "re educated." when he went back

[Jaison1986]

Flemeth did help. She saved you and the Warden treaties. She knows that combat and power is ultimately pointless. She says what's important is that you're a Grey Warden. That's symbolic enough that people might rally behind it and join your army. "If it was about power, sending you two would be a jest." Her means of help proves to be the most useful in the end.

 

It's like the Dwarves. They'll simply sit on their hands all day, unless a Paragon tells them what to do.

 

I'm pretty sure my odds of sucess would be infinitely bigger with her following the party. 

[the_last_krogan]

i always kill that fool loghain

[Finnn62]

I used to let him live to slay the Archdemon, but in my last "canon" playthrough I kill him & have Alistair do the ritual. It seems like that will be more interesting later on. A kid with the soul of a powerful dragon-spirit-god-thing? Awesome. I also like having Alistair around and on good terms, so killing Loghain seemed the best choice.

 

I'm dead set against letting him live and not having him die to the Archdemon, though. Take Morrigan up on the ritual and save both you and Loghain? Sacrifice yourself for him? Why do either of those, when Loghain's sitting right there, as the perfect ace in the hole? I can kill both Loghain and the Archdemon at the same time? It's a two for one, lol

[TEWR]

At this point I didn't really care. The direction ferelden was going made me lose all hope. After all the B.S. I had to endure for treaty signatures made me realize who should be king of this land. The Dog should run Ferelden. As for Loghain, it usually came down to either Alistair or me cutting off his head for Duncan otherwise he was spared just for the achievement.

 

I never got why people said "For Duncan!" when Duncan tells a Cousland Warden point blank a Warden's duty trumps any sort of quest for vengeance.

 

It's like they don't understand Duncan at all.

[Xetykins]

Duncan would do anything to stop the blight. Come landsmeet, Loghain is pretty much a big wall between him and his duty. And pretty much made his duty almost impossible. I think he would do his best to beat Alistair on the race to cut his head :-) The situation is just too dire for hopeful indulgence. The joining is not a guaranteed magical concoction to cure stupidity and extreme paranonia after all.

[Jaison1986]

Duncan would do anything to stop the blight. Come landsmeet, Loghain is pretty much a big wall between him and his duty. And pretty much made his duty almost impossible. I think he would do his best to beat Alistair on the race to cut his head :-) The situation is just too dire for hopeful indulgence. The joining is not a guaranteed magical concoction to cure stupidity and extreme paranonia after all.

 

Once Loghain was bested, I don't think so. Riordan is the one that makes the suggestion in the first place. Duncan need for wardens is stronger then any other duty. Of course, this is all moot point since Gaider pretty much said that had Duncan survived, he would leave Ferelden to be destroyed while he goes to rally the wardens from Orlais.

[Xetykins]

Thats why he would kill loghain because he cant afford to gamble the 4 wardens thats left to his stupidity and hate. There is no guarantee that anything would change. Honestly, would you really gamble the last 4 wardens for one man whos only been trying to kill the wardens? Would duncan? I think not. During the landsmeet and after all the assassintion attempts, Loghain might as well be another archdemon to him because he a gigantic hindrance from his duty.

Especially when he already has the army from the treaties and from some of the nobles. He really does not need him. He would stick with 4 trusted wardens than endangering them before the archdemon.
He might as well indeed take the remaining wardens to orlais and let ferelden burn.

[themikefest]

I'm sure Duncan would agree to have Loghain become a grey Warden. The more wardens you have the better chance of defeating the Archdemon. He would tell Alistair that  defeating the Archdemon is a bigger issue and if he should live after defeating the archdemon, deal with Loghaon at that time.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

He might as well indeed take the remaining wardens to orlais and let ferelden burn.

I think I remember hearing Word Of Gaider that he was planning to do that anyway, right after Ostagar.

[Xetykins]

I think I remember hearing Word Of Gaider that he was planning to do that anyway, right after Ostagar.

I wish there was an ingame option for that. But could the pc really leave ferelden and all he/she holds dear tho? A cousland might cuz thy wont know that fergus lived til the end. Maybe dwarf commoner? I admit I've not played commoner and only dwarf noble after the origins.

[gottaloveme]

Every death besides Cailan's and the GWs after Loghain's defection is on Loghain's head. Every death resulting from the civil war is on Loghain's head. His betrayal is of Ferelden. Owning that and paying for it is his atonement. Like the GW says to the maleficar in Broken Circle - let your death be your penance.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Every death besides Cailan's and the GWs after Loghain's defection is on Loghain's head. Every death resulting from the civil war is on Loghain's head. His betrayal is of Ferelden. Owning that and paying for it is his atonement. Like the GW says to the maleficar in Broken Circle - let your death be your penance.

You are now aware that not every PC says that.

 

As for the CIvil War, you are aware that it was technically Teagan that started it?

[gottaloveme]

Was it Teagan who started the war? I know he says that the Bannorn will not bow to Loghain just because he says so. Then Teagan goes to Redcliffe, I suppose to consult Eamon) and ends up fighting zombies. How does he have the time to wage civil war?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Was it Teagan who started the war? I know he says that the Bannorn will not bow to Loghain just because he says so. Then Teagan goes to Redcliffe, I suppose to consult Eamon) and ends up fighting zombies. How does he have the time to wage civil war?

I'm oversimplifying when I say it was Teagan specifically, but he was the first one we see openly refuse to bow to Loghain despite Loghain technically being in charge legally. He didn't actually participate in what he took the leading role in starting, hence why it's an oversimplification. The Bannorn (which Teagan is part of, but which at this point he's not working with due to having his own problems) then demands Loghain step down from his questionable position as Regent despite Anora's acquiescence, which I'm pretty sure they can't do: despite the weirdness of what's going on, it's supposed to be Anora standing up to him if anyone. It's at that point that Civil War is pretty much inevitable. This Civil War was somewhat questionable on both sides, but Loghain's more within his legal rights due to Anora's acquiescence and her (at this point unchallenged) status as queen.

[gottaloveme]

fair nuff.

[ShadowLordXII]

I'm oversimplifying when I say it was Teagan specifically, but he was the first one we see openly refuse to bow to Loghain despite Loghain technically being in charge legally. He didn't actually participate in what he took the leading role in starting, hence why it's an oversimplification. The Bannorn (which Teagan is part of, but which at this point he's not working with due to having his own problems) then demands Loghain step down from his questionable position as Regent despite Anora's acquiescence, which I'm pretty sure they can't do: despite the weirdness of what's going on, it's supposed to be Anora standing up to him if anyone. It's at that point that Civil War is pretty much inevitable. This Civil War was somewhat questionable on both sides, but Loghain's more within his legal rights due to Anora's acquiescence and her (at this point unchallenged) status as queen.

 

The Civil War would've happened eventually. What triggered it was Loghain assuming regency without the bannorn's consent. All Teagan did was be the first one to get the ball rolling. Another noble would've stepped up eventually.

 

Even if Anora put him in the position, she's only the queen-consort, and is only royalty by marriage rather than right. So her endorsement doesn't hold as much weight as say the lawful monarch like Moira or Maric would have. If she or Cailan (my most likely suspect) wasn't barren than she could at least claim regency while ruling in the stead of their child. But with no real claim to the throne herself and without an heir to inherit Cailan, the throne's basically empty until the bannorn can agree on a new ruler.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Civil War would've happened eventually. What triggered it was Loghain assuming regency without the bannorn's consent. All Teagan did was be the first one to get the ball rolling. Another noble would've stepped up eventually.

 

Even if Anora put him in the position, she's only the queen-consort, and is only royalty by marriage rather than right. So her endorsement doesn't hold as much weight as say the lawful monarch like Moira or Maric would have. If she or Cailan (my most likely suspect) wasn't barren than she could at least claim regency while ruling in the stead of their child. But with no real claim to the throne herself and without an heir to inherit Cailan, the throne's basically empty until the bannorn can agree on a new ruler.

I think you're confusing the Bannorn with the Landsmeet. The Landsmeet is what decides these things. The Bannorn is just a large (though possibly majority large) subset of it.

 

At any rate, I also don't think that anyone had challenged Anora's right to the throne. I'm not disputing that they could (and arguably should) have, but none of the nobles we speak to seem inclined to. The Gnawed Noble Tavern crowd certainly seems to think that she's the de facto queen.

[Mike3207]

That brings up a question-does the Civil War even get started if the Warden isn't in the picture?Cauthrien definitely implies that the Warden is responsible for the Civil War, even to the extent it was necessary to sell the elves to have enough money to continue fighting it.I think that's a bit much, but I also think the war would have been settled long ago if the Warden wasn't putting together the armies.

[Jaison1986]

That brings up a question-does the Civil War even get started if the Warden isn't in the picture?Cauthrien definitely implies that the Warden is responsible for the Civil War, even to the extent it was necessary to sell the elves to have enough money to continue fighting it.I think that's a bit much, but I also think the war would have been settled long ago if the Warden wasn't putting together the armies.

 

Nah, it was because Theirin loyalists saw what Loghain did as an power grab. That's what triggered the civil war. If Cailan had no supporters, I think no one would have cared much.