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[Cobra's_back]

Unless you have read The Stolen Throne, it's incredibly difficult to see any sort of good side to Loghain, much like Bhelen (unless you are Dwarf Commoner or meta gaming.) It's a tricky thing, especially when he has done so much to your PC personally. My friend informed me that he has a few cut scenes that would have done so much, but alas. I think he initially had the right intentions (he lived through the Orlesian Occuptation and he harbours a deep hatred for them personally, with good intention) but he became a little addled because of it. His paranoia screwed him over.

 

He isn't a mindless villain, hell-bent on destroying everything for his power. He actually has reasons as to why he did what he did (again, thanks to my friend who opened my eyes on this) and they are in his eyes political moves to quell the threat of Orlesians gaining power again. Arl Eamon and his (straying) Orlesian wife, the Couslands openness to Orlesians, King Cailain and his secret letters to the queen of Orlais... whatsherface. He doesn't think Orlais has left Ferelden for good. Well, they haven't, have they? His worries were in the right place and he did what a political power would have done in the same sort of era to ours - eradicating the threats.

 

He truly regrets doing what he has done, but I never forgive him for how he went about everything. It's a real tragedy. Much like Othello, he succumbs to his weakness and takes down everyone around him whilst doing so. Even his own daughter

 

Another Othello connection I have found. The foreshadowing during the Human Noble prologue. Everyone senses their death and subconciously refers to it. There is something in the air... like Desdemona's last scene before she is stabbed with Emilia. Anywhoo.

 

Beautifully written. I read the book as well. I do love his character but I never let him live. I would have done this even if we were friends long ago. I have always seen him as a man who will do whatever it takes even if it means crossing the line. This I knew was his undoing.

 

There is always the % chance someone has to pay for crimes they have committed and that is Loghain. He left too much damage for me to give him a pass.

 

In the book, I understood why Loghain had to have Katriel die. She was the reason so many rebels were killed. If Marc would have let her live, the cause would have been for nothing because Marc would give up the throne to be with the woman that was responsible for so many of the rebels dying.

 

With the reasoning of his past dealings in mind he should have seen it coming and you put it best "he succumbs to his weakness and takes down everyone around him".

[Cobra's_back]

I think part of it is because in this case the antagonist actually yields to the protagonist and is no longer a threat, so executing him at that moment isn't absolutely necessary.  I do agree that he deserves to be punished, and like I mentioned before would much rather have him arrested.

 

I see what you mean and understand. It is not the threat as much as the country needs to move on and heal. Justice allows the injures to heal. He did enough to earn the death penalty. I know the game lets you do whatever but I tend to do what is best for a real world scenario unless I'm planning on playing evil. 

[Cobra's_back]

i guess we should kill any family in United States or Brazil(as example) who owned slaves then. And Catholic church.

 

And i guess 'spoils of war' do not ring any bells for you.

 

This doesn't make sense. We don't have slavery in the USA. In the USA, slavery existed because it wasn't against the law and slaves were not considered citizens or second class citizens.

 

Our laws in the USA do not punish the children for the crimes of their parents. Therefore we shouldn't kill any family in the USA for great-grandparents misdeeds.

 

 

In the game Ferelden was a free nation. They said it several times that slavery was not allowed. It was officially a crime. They also stated he kidnapped a Templar and Noble do not have rights over Templars. It is stated in game that this is a crime. Is this worth the death penalty to me absolutely. My warden has plans to rebuild the relationships with the elves. In the book the elves have night vision. I'm going to need them in the future. Our relationship has to be built on trust and that must be earned. They are your future ally or your future terrorist. 

[Ryzaki]

What's the point of killing him at the Landsmeet? I mean, really? Is it so Alistair doesn't run off? Because that's a dumb reason. You're told by the most senior Grey Warden you've met, aside from Duncan, that there are very good reasons to make Loghain a Warden. That's a punishment in itself. If you really want him dead, then make him a Warden, don't do the ritual, and make him take the final blow. Or don't make him take the final blow, and let him live out what short time he has left with no authority, no troops to command, and in Orlais, for goodness sake, waiting to die in the Deep Roads at the hands of the darkspawn.

 

Whatever choice you make at the Landsmeet ends in his death, either sooner or later, so "should" is irrelevant.

 

You forget the point where Alistair says he's leaving if he does? Because if there's compelling reasons to have more wardens having one of the few we have run off isn't a good idea. Especially when Loghain might not even survive the joining anyway.

[Orihime]

for me its never a hard to choose since id rather have alistair and the fact i never liked loghain x,x

 

and i always do the ritual so who knew x]

[Ryzaki]

You can tell Alistair he can't quit anyways. It's going to catch up with him eventualy.

 

That doesn't stop him from leaving and leaving you a warden short to stop the archedemon.

 

Honestly I half expected Riordan to either recant once Alistair started going "Screw this I"m out." or to try to pull the PC/Alistair to the side (but then we might actually be able to avoid the DR without killing ourselves/ruining friendships.)

[3ntropy995]

I actually had to make this decision yesterday I chose to spare Loghain during this playthrough and can't help but feel as if I betrayed Allistair even though he was acting like a selfish child, I just can't support his excecution so I let him leave. I personally feel that at that point so much unnecessary blood has been spilt already that it would be a waste to kill Loghain just for the sake of vengeance.

 

I might not condone what he has done, but there should always be a chance to redeem one self... Just a pity that all rational thought was abandoned during the landsmeet.

[Cobra's_back]

What's the point of killing him at the Landsmeet? I mean, really? Is it so Alistair doesn't run off? Because that's a dumb reason. You're told by the most senior Grey Warden you've met, aside from Duncan, that there are very good reasons to make Loghain a Warden. That's a punishment in itself. If you really want him dead, then make him a Warden, don't do the ritual, and make him take the final blow. Or don't make him take the final blow, and let him live out what short time he has left with no authority, no troops to command, and in Orlais, for goodness sake, waiting to die in the Deep Roads at the hands of the darkspawn.

 

Whatever choice you make at the Landsmeet ends in his death, either sooner or later, so "should" is irrelevant.

 

I love his character but his crimes against citizens earn him the death penalty. His victims would prefer his execution. I don't see how any of them want him to be a hero. 

[DarthGizka]

You forget the point where Alistair says he's leaving if he does? Because if there's compelling reasons to have more wardens having one of the few we have run off isn't a good idea. Especially when Loghain might not even survive the joining anyway.

There's little point in trying to keep someone like Alistair, who doesn't give a flying meow about duty, the Wardens and the Blight and all that.

[Xetykins]

I think people took this kind of shine of Loghain from reading the stolen throne. I understand that. He was a hero there and a rather brilliant one at that, but that is not who he is anymore in the game. People said he is only doing what he thinks is best for his people but half of ferelden got ravaged by the blight without any signs of Loghain. Loathering for example and arl wulf's banorn. If only there was evidence that he was trying to protect those places instead of hiding in denerim obsessing and conniving with Howe on the warden's demise then I most probably would spare him at the landsmeet. As it is, he is pretty much useless to me. And I will not trade a proven companion, ally and a friend with a fallen from grace hero.

In the stolen throne he will always be my hero and the hero of the people. But in my game, he is not even worthy to be an archdemon fooder.

My own reasoning. Please dont slap me with wet noodles!

[PnXMarcin1PL]

I let him live only because he serves Grey Wardens, one he hates as much as the Olreais.

Besides there is nothing better thank making him 'tangle' with Morrigan while the player takes the kill

[Ryzaki]

I don't really need him anyways, after all. Not for that battle. I'm helping him by going with Loghain, in fact.

 

I like the line you tell Loghain.. "You cost me Alistair."

 

"You'll thank me for that."

 

He's right. At least Alistair can have what little life he has, instead of killing himself. I might find him annoying, but he doesn't deserve to die. And for most characters, the dark ritual is not an option. As far as I'm concerned, I think it's the most ****** stupid thing ever. No way.

 

True I'm just arguing the "we need more numbers" mindset isn't supported by recruiting Loghain. Worst case scenario you're one down. Best case you have exactly the same amount of wardens fighting the archedemon as you already had. There are plenty of valid reasons to recruit Loghain of course.

 

@Starlitegirlx: Agreed.

[Ryzaki]

There's little point in trying to keep someone like Alistair, who doesn't give a flying meow about duty, the Wardens and the Blight and all that.

 

? And if Loghain would've died in the joining your PC either would've had to do the US or DR to survive. He's an extra body to have kill the archedemon even if you utterly dislike him that's enough reason to keep him as he's quite willing to kill the archdemon to stop the blight. NVM that you might've made him king and such. There's plenty of reasons to keep either one of them.

[Steelcan]

[Ryzaki]

That was actually historically the kill symbol right? And the thumbs down was the spare?

[Xetykins]

Well I did not see him there either alright. Just his lackeys trying to steal lands and harrassing orzammar guards for "king loghain" I doubt they would call him king without declaring himself as such, even if annora is still queen.