That was actually historically the kill symbol right? And the thumbs down was the spare?
well the symbols were
"Point at throat" for kill
"index finger down" for live
Should Loghain Live or Die?
Débuté par
ReD BaKen9
, avril 06 2014 03:58
#151
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:03
Steelcan
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Retour en haut
#152
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:04
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The fact that he even survives the Joining is interesting to me. Who am I or Alistair to say he can't be a Warden, if he survives? Somehow fate has decreed Loghain is worthy or suitable.
God.. Alistair really makes me sick at the Landsmeet at that part. Like he has jurisdiction on what Grey Wardens stand for. It reminds me of Ostagar, when he wonders why Duncan picked Daveth, "that cutpurse". He's so judgemental. Even Duncan was a criminal in his youth.
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#153
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:05
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well the symbols were
"Point at throat" for kill
"index finger down" for live
ooooh and we just simplified it to thumbs up thumbs down XD looks better anyway. 
\o/
#154
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:07
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The fact that he even survives the Joining is interesting to me. Who am I or Alistair to say he can't be a Warden, if he survives? Somehow fate has decreed Loghain is worthy or suitable.
God.. Alistair really makes me sick at the Landsmeet at that part. Like he has jurisdiction on what Grey Wardens stand for.
Fair enough.
Oh god yes. Alistair can be a pita at the Landsmeet. I especially love hardening him having him duel Loghain he takes the crown automatically and then later starts bitching at me for placing him on the throne.
I just picture the WTF look on my PC's face.
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#155
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:07
Sir DeLoria
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I humbly disagree.
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#156
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:09
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There's little point in trying to keep someone like Alistair, who doesn't give a flying meow about duty, the Wardens and the Blight and all that.
Loghain is even less concerned about all of the three. The only thing he's concerned about is the Orlesians.
#157
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:10
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Screw Commodus.
I don't like imagining my character to be anything of the like. Judge, Jury, Executioner, tyrant, whiny pissant brat. Who molests his sister and nephew to boot.
lol.. OK.. I'm reading too much into it.
#158
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:10
Xetykins
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The fact that he even survives the Joining is interesting to me. Who am I or Alistair to say he can't be a Warden, if he survives? Somehow fate has decreed Loghain is worthy or suitable.
God.. Alistair really makes me sick at the Landsmeet at that part. Like he has jurisdiction on what Grey Wardens stand for.
Alistair makes you sick for his tantrum and Loghain does not? Admittedly he was being a brat and i'd have loved the drop kick option but.....seriously?
Its a real curiousity by the way not a confrontational one.
#159
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:13
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Alistair makes you sick for his tantrum and Loghain does not? Admittedly he was being a brat and i'd have loved the drop kick option but.....seriously?
Its a real curiousity by the way not a confrontational one.
He's make me sick because all of his perceptions of the Wardens comes out right then.
I'm already going through the game for 40 hours knowing his views, of course. So he makes me sick already. Same with Wynne. I don't hate him, but I hate his perception that being a Grey Warden is some great honor. This is the root of why he doesn't want Loghain to become one.
It's no better than being grouped with Ser Jory the whole game. Another idiot.
#160
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:15
kalasaurus
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Fair enough.
Oh god yes. Alistair can be a pita at the Landsmeet. I especially love hardening him having him duel Loghain he takes the crown automatically and then later starts bitching at me for placing him on the throne.
I just picture the WTF look on my PC's face.
Lol, this. I'm an Alistair fan, but there are a few moments he annoys me and this is one of them.
It's even worse when the Warden is about to spare Loghain and put him through the Joining and Alistair insists on being King so he can bring Loghain to justice. So the Warden yields and gives him what he wants only for Alistair to later get angry at the Warden for making him king. Errr, Alistair, did you forget what happened at the Landsmeet?
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#161
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:15
Steelcan
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The best part is that Commodus wasn't bad in that way
And his actual death was much cooler than his film death
#162
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:18
Xetykins
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People has different views of what's honorable, apparently even video game characters :-)
#163
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:20
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People has different views of what's honorable, apparently even video game characters :-)
I find his notions rather pathetic when it comes to this subject. The whole honor of being a Warden (when half of DAO origin stories are tragic), and his idealization and attachement to Duncan. He's only been a Grey Warden 6 months, and suddenly Duncan is his "father figure"? That's sad. Even more sad by the fact that Duncan was a murderer and thief when he joined and ran away from the Wardens multiple times. He was worse than Anders. lol. And Duncan himself killed a Warden no less. He was forced into Joining as a punishment. It wasn't about honor at all.
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#164
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:23
Ryzaki
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Lol, this. I'm an Alistair fan, but there are a few moments he annoys me and this is one of them.
It's even worse when the Warden is about to spare Loghain and put him through the Joining and Alistair insists on being King so he can bring Loghain to justice. So the Warden yields and gives him what he wants only for Alistair to later get angry at the Warden for making him king. Errr, Alistair, did you forget what happened at the Landsmeet?
Yeah too many cracks to the head I suppose. (not to mention the hilarious bugs of Alistair always thinking he's king even when he's not if you don't get the mods fixing that).
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#165
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:24
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I find his notions rather pathetic when it comes to this subject. The whole honor of being a Warden (when half of DAO origin stories are tragic), and his idealization and attachement to Duncan. He's only been a Grey Warden 6 months, and suddenly Duncan is his "father figure"? That's sad. Even more sad by the fact that Duncan was a murderer and thief when he joined and ran away from the Wardens multiple times. He was worse than Anders. lol. And Duncan himself killed a Warden no less. He was forced into Joining as a punishment. It wasn't about honor at all.
It's supposed to be. He was so starved for affection as a child he latches on the the first person that doesn't treat him like garbage. It's not healthy. And his idealization isn't either.
I believe it was stated if Duncan had lived he'd ditched Fereldan and Alistair would've gone right along with it probably justifying it like he does everything Duncan does. The PC suggests it though and Alistair will argue against it.
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#166
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:28
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The fact that he even survives the Joining is interesting to me. Who am I or Alistair to say he can't be a Warden, if he survives? Somehow fate has decreed Loghain is worthy or suitable.
God.. Alistair really makes me sick at the Landsmeet at that part. Like he has jurisdiction on what Grey Wardens stand for. It reminds me of Ostagar, when he wonders why Duncan picked Daveth, "that cutpurse". He's so judgemental. Even Duncan was a criminal in his youth.
Alistair was raised in the chantry. He's like a softer version of wynne. Consider him somewhat brainwashed because of it. Really, you can't fault him for his views when only six months ago he was released from their mind control. That is still going to be very much who he is as I'm guessing he was there for at least a decade if not more. He's easily mid twenties and went there at age ten. That is all he really knows. So as much as you don't like him for these things, it's really not his fault. He was sheltered and controlled and brainwashed.... but you have to give him credit as well. He won't hate on mages for no reason. He still has some chantry beliefs so not letting a blood mage loose is a good thing. But if you are a mage he never gives you tone or judgment for it. But other chantry beliefs are still there, and now they've got warden beliefs on top of it.
If you see him from that perspective, it makes sense and you can understand that it's really just his upbringing. He's not fully free from chantry hold yet. So yes, he has the same judgments they do for the most part.
Also, Daveth was recruited after stealing Duncan's coin purse or whatever it's called. So cutpurse is 100% accurate.
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#167
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 08:37
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It's supposed to be. He was so starved for affection as a child he latches on the the first person that doesn't treat him like garbage. It's not healthy. And his idealization isn't either.
I believe it was stated if Duncan had lived he'd ditched Fereldan and Alistair would've gone right along with it probably justifying it like he does everything Duncan does. The PC suggests it though and Alistair will argue against it.
Yes, Alistair cannot see anything duncan does with any kind of reason. Duncan just murdered Jory at the joining. Cold blooded murder with zero remorse. Alistair doesn't really even give this a thought. Yes, Jory pulled his sword, but he felt his life was in danger with the ritual at that point. Alistair will still go on about how great Duncan is even after watching him murder Jory just to keep this joining a secret.... which BTW, if you know people are going to die as a result, would it not be wiser to not have them do this in a group? Kinder as well so they don't have to witness this or people like Jory don't lose it and end up on the wrong end of a sword. I guess it's for theatrics but it could have been done separately and you could have learned that Jory and Daveth didn't survive it. But it seems like an unnecessary thing to have people do it together like that and end up kind of traumatized by watching others die from this. Knowing it happens would be enough. Jory was an unnecessary death because of it and he could have been a warden.
#168
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 10:01
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Actually you can see it on his face that murdering Jory isn't 'cold blooded'. He even has a line of dialogue if you call him out on it that says, *paraphrased* "It brought me no pleasure to kill Jory, but when he went for his sword, he left me (Duncan) no choice". I believe Duncan is a bit of an ass myself, especially with the way he behaves during the HN origin, but Jory was ill suited for the wardens. Five minutes with him and you can see that. It speaks to Duncan's desperation for good men that he accepted Jory into the order.
Living, dying together, bonds people. Each warden knows the next fight could be his last, and seeing the price paid right up front is a shocking and clarifying way of imparting the extremes wardens will go to to end a blight. And I get the feeling that the older, nastier wardens probably take bets on who will live and who will die. Wonder who won the pool when the PC did the Joining... 
And on the original topic, I think Loghain deserves nothing less than death. If I have any qualms about it, it's that it happens and is over too quickly, though i dislike doing it in front of his daughter. I don't trust him, and he's an idiot (Ferelden's greatest general my ass). He's died in every single one of my games save for one with a larky, insane Cousland warden.
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#169
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 11:18
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It's still amazing how much debate there can be over killing arguably the main antagonist of DAO. What's next, people arguing over whether the archdemon deserves to die?
If the archdemon could be redeemed/cleansed/reasoned with, an argument is exactly what you'd get.
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#170
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 11:32
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If it is so obvious then you should be able to give at least one reason, no?
I think everyone agrees that Loghain should "should answer for it" in some form or other. However, that is not sufficient reason for condoning murder.
I don't feel bad for "murdering" a slaver,torturer of innocents,attempted regicide and someone who slandered and tried to kill me just for doing my job.
I also don't consider lawful execution murder.
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#171
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 11:36
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If the archdemon could be redeemed/cleansed/reasoned with, an argument is exactly what you'd get.
Just see the Dark Ritual debates for that.
#172
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 11:39
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I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually do get a more... civil..exchange with archdemons or something that understands them. Much like the Architect showed that darkspawn minions aren't necessarily rabid beasts. At the very least, I'd like to know what archdemons actually think -- or thought back in the day - before they were tainted. Y'know, like, what the hell are they all about? I don't even see how they're actually "demons". As in, corrupted spirits of the Fade. They just seem like powerful dragons.
For the time being though, it's best kill them.
#173
Posté 06 avril 2014 - 11:54
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I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually do get a more... civil..exchange with archdemons or something that understands them. Much like the Architect showed that darkspawn minions aren't necessarily rabid beasts. At the very least, I'd like to know what archdemons actually think -- or thought back in the day - before they were tainted. Y'know, like, what the hell are they all about? I don't even see how they're actually "demons". As in, corrupted spirits of the Fade. They just seem like powerful dragons.
For the time being though, it's best kill them.
Morrigan said the old gods were not evil. The taint corrupts them and turn them into the Archdemon. We do know they had strong magic and gave that magic to their priest. For all I know the god baby will be dragonborn, a really power mage or a powerful shape-shifting dragon. If she gave birth to it, you will be able to kill it. I'm not sure you would have to. This is like saying the baby has to be born evil. I'm not a big fan of that generalization.
#174
Posté 07 avril 2014 - 12:04
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Morrigan said the old gods were not evil. The taint corrupts them and turn them into the Archdemon. We do know they had strong magic and gave that magic to their priest. For all I know the god baby will be dragonborn, a really power mage or a powerful shape-shifting dragon. If she gave birth to it, you will be able to kill it. I'm not sure you would have to. This is like saying the baby has to be born evil. I'm not a big fan of that generalization.
Dumat kinda was or at the least a huge dick.
#175
Posté 07 avril 2014 - 12:12
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Just see the Dark Ritual debates for that.
I was more thinking of the Architect. The Dark Ritual still requires killing the archdemon, and we only have Morrigan's word for what it does.
