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[Lady Artifice]

However, our differing predictions of how she's likely to react after the events of the game are pure speculation on both our parts. I don't see Cauthrien as the type to personally try assassinating a sitting monarch without signs of rampant tyranny and suffering amongst the people, no matter how she personally might feel about them. I also just think she would be smarter than to try doing so after that monarch has ended the Blight and is HUGELY popular as a result. 

 

Even if she succeeds, is she likely to get away with it alive?

 

I don't know if I see her being that hotheaded, that suicidal, when what's done is done.  

[sylvanaerie]

I used to let her go the first few times, but after a while she grated on the nerves.

 

Now I usually just kill her at Howe's estate.

[WarriorOfLight999]

Cauthrien? I don't care a fig for her either way. Brave warrior, but blind, and stupid. I don't normally chastise people for their low birth, but the fact that she had the nerve to call a Cousland a churl infuriates me. I wanted to slug her. I think she's dead in my playthrough. Not sure.

 

Arsinoe de Blassenville is an excellent writer. That's probably what would happen. Nevertheless, I could picture it very differently....hmm...

[TEWR]

I tend to beat Cauthrien in Howe's estate, loot her for her sword, and then throw the fight. That way, she still lives.

[Mike3207]

Her first reaction would probably look like this. Seriously, why do you think it's a good idea to spare Cauthrien in a playthrough where you can't not kill Loghain?

As for me, my reason for sparing Cauthrien is that i want someone left in Ferelden with some measure of military skill.Good chance Loghain dies, the warden will disappear, and Ferelden's not a military power.You're going to need a Cauthrien or someone like that to keep Ferelden safe.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

As for me, my reason for sparing Cauthrien is that i want someone left in Ferelden with some measure of military skill.Good chance Loghain dies, the warden will disappear, and Ferelden's not a military power.You're going to need a Cauthrien or someone like that to keep Ferelden safe.

Entirely fair, but her loyalty is to a large degree to Loghain as a person rather than to the crown. There's reasons to take this risk, but it's still a risk.

[Hair Serious Business]

Here is little example...

Spoiler

If you played DA2 and fought Arishok to save Isabela who betrayed you and cause all poor people's death because of her selfish act...if you really let her easily off the hook after all that then I don't see any problem in letting Loghain live as well.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Here is little example...

Spoiler

If you played DA2 and fought Arishok to save Isabela who betrayed you and cause all poor people's death because of her selfish act...if you really let her easily off the hook after all that then I don't see any problem in letting Loghain live as well.

Pretty sure this one counts as It Was His Sled by now, but...

Spoiler

What is Isabella ever going to do again, that will cause this much death and destruction? I can see an argument that you shouldn't punish Loghain more heavily than you do Isabella, but my argument that the Warden should kill Loghain has nothing to do with punishing Loghain, and everything to do with the dichotomy forced by game mechanics where you either kill him or let him live in the Camp you sleep in.

[kimgoold]

I have to say I believe the remarks in game about Anora being likened to a bard is the comparison to a Bard's ability to manipulate opportunities, and see weaknesses to exploit in others; not that she has charisma or is at all personable.

 

In game Howe remarks on Anora's loving to play games (the Game) and she did try to manipulate the Warden/Alistair batting her eyes (like she was stroking) when her father was executed at Landsmeet.

[TEWR]

Pretty sure this one counts as It Was His Sled by now, but...

Spoiler

What is Isabella ever going to do again, that will cause this much death and destruction? I can see an argument that you shouldn't punish Loghain more heavily than you do Isabella, but my argument that the Warden should kill Loghain has nothing to do with punishing Loghain, and everything to do with the dichotomy forced by game mechanics where you either kill him or let him live in the Camp you sleep in.

 

Beyond that, what the Warden does and what Hawke does are separately defined by virtue of being different people.

[Lady Artifice]

Beyond that, what the Warden does and what Hawke does are separately defined by virtue of being different people.

 

This. 

 

Exactly what I was going to say.

[Hair Serious Business]

Pretty sure this one counts as It Was His Sled by now, but...

Spoiler

What is Isabella ever going to do again, that will cause this much death and destruction? I can see an argument that you shouldn't punish Loghain more heavily than you do Isabella, but my argument that the Warden should kill Loghain has nothing to do with punishing Loghain, and everything to do with the dichotomy forced by game mechanics where you either kill him or let him live in the Camp you sleep in.

 

When it comes to Loghain...

Spoiler

Last time checked he did not even attempt to murder me.Besides with darkspawn,Blight and whole Landsmeet recognizing him as "traitor"...throne and kill you are least of his worries.
Plus if you bother to even talk to man you will get to understand him more easily.He is man that loves his country,he saw Orlesians invade his homeland kill many poor people,raping women,killing children...not that I justify his action but you must understand that things as these leave very big trauma on person(put youeself in place and imagine seeing your people die,your homeland being destroyed and invaded).
As for why he betrayed Cailen...I mean seriously have you met a man :/?He was just idiotic "playboy" with crown on his head that lived in world of fantasies rather then to come to reality.If it wasn't for Anora to deal with kingdom...then Ferelden would be goner long ago if Cailen was left to rule all alone(as much as I don't like Anora I always admit that she is formidable ruler).
So yes Loghain might have done all this...for his trauma and fear that history will repeat,for even Anora since afterall Cailen cheated on her on every occasion while she needed to swallow all that and deal with country that Cailen pretty much just left her to deal with all issues while he was messing around(imagine if you were father/mother and you see your daughter in marriage with man who acts as child,cheat on her and isn't much husband at all to her...I don't know about you but that reason would be more then enough for me to kill bastard who played a fool my child) or if you are feeling better at just 'plain judge' then he did all this for power...or reason why he did that is this all together.

 

Spoiler

Now let's see Isabela...what reasons are hers?Simple "selfishness".And how do you know she won't do another stunt that will cause something same?She is woman that acts out of greed,give her a coin and she would sell her own child if she could.Half of time I wonder if she is telling the truth O_O she says mother just plainly traded her for coin and goat to you but her background says mother sold her because her mother wanted to join Qun and Isabela refused...then she says she didn't hire assassins to kill her husband and yet later on in book she says she did!Honestly I don't even know what is truth or false with her anymore and honestly I gave up cracking my head against wall trying to figure out.I don't know about you but this kind of person gives me worst vibe for "trust" then even Archdemon.
So honestly if she can be spared for what she's done even though she didn't have excuse except "I'm selfish and greedy...so what" then yes sparing Loghain is even easier because to some degree he has at least some excuse(war trauma,fool Cailen on throne that acts as child while country is needing someone who doesn't live in 7th cloud,anger because Cailen cheated on Anora while she was left dealing with real problems of country that her husband didn't bother with,power for throne but that again brings as to 'fool Cailen on throne that lives on 7th cloud') take your pick at what could have caused him to betray you.Unlike Isabela Loghain does not hide nor justify his actions,he even admits hating for being Warden,he doesn't regret for leaving Cailen to die that much is obvious and I can't blame him for that one considering what kind of king Cailen was to country and husband to Anora so if I was general of some country I would want such fool removed as well and as parent I would kill him slowly for making my kid suffer.
But anyway each to their own.

 

Anyway in my case when I play game in where my decisions matter I put my self in role of entire game...which means I always put my personal feelings aside for some person and go with what would be best for country and people not me and my wish to kill someone because he/she screwed me over something.Go with that and letting people as Loghain,Bhelen,Isolde,Anora and Isabela slide side with them and let live will be easier despite fact that you would rather slit their throats 

 

Spoiler

Bhelen - much more capable as king and lot better Orzammar since Harrowmont proofs to be horrible king which means Orzammar suffers because of Harrowmont's idiotic leadership.
Isolde - first she is Arl's wife and second she is mother so leaving kid to grow out without mother is cruel(speaking from my own experience) 
Anora - she was ruler for many years and she is very competent plus nation loves her so removing her to put 'bastard prince' on throne...does not much good to Ferelden.Putting them together however...Alistair's bloodline plus Anora's experience is perfect match for kingdom.
Loghain - put all his reasons aside and always keep in mind that traitor or no Loghain was for long time considered as Hero and he is greatest general and mind in military...once again go with 'politics' in here and what goes to people's favor not you personal feelings.
Isabela - I would have no problems with just giving her away only reason why I save her a@@ is because Qunari just want their tome back...if I give Isabela they will lose tome again while if I kill Arishok and save Isabela at least they will get their tome back.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

When it comes to Loghain...

Spoiler

Last time checked he did not even attempt to murder me.Besides with darkspawn,Blight and whole Landsmeet recognizing him as "traitor"...throne and kill you are least of his worries.
Plus if you bother to even talk to man you will get to understand him more easily.He is man that loves his country,he saw Orlesians invade his homeland kill many poor people,raping women,killing children...not that I justify his action but you must understand that things as these leave very big trauma on person(put youeself in place and imagine seeing your people die,your homeland being destroyed and invaded).
As for why he betrayed Cailen...I mean seriously have you mat a man :/?He was just idiotic "playboy" with crown on his head that lived in world of fantasies rather then to come to reality.If it wasn't for Anora to deal with kingdom...then Ferelden would be goner long ago if Cailen was left to rule all alone(as much as I don't like Anora I always admit that she is formidable ruler).
So yes Loghain might have done all this...for his trauma and fear that history will repeat,for even Anora since afterall Cailen cheated on her on every occasion while she needed to swallow all that and deal with country that Cailen pretty much just left her to deal with all issues while he was messing around(imagine if you were father/mother and you see your daughter in marriage with man who acts as child,cheat on her and isn't much husband at all to her...I don't know about you but that reason would be more then enough for me to kill bastard who played a fool my child) or if you are feeling better at just 'plain judge' then he did all this for power...or reason why he did that is this all together.

 

Spoiler

Now let's see Isabela...what reasons are hers?Simple "selfishness".And how do you know she won't do another stunt that will cause something same?She is woman that acts out of greed,give her a coin and she would sell her own child if she could.Half of time I wonder if she is telling the truth O_O she says mother just plainly traded her for coin and goat to you but her background says mother sold her because her mother wanted to join Qun and Isabela refused...then she says she didn't hire assassins to kill her husband and yet later on in book she says she did!Honestly I don't even know what is truth or false with her anymore and honestly I gave up cracking my head against wall trying to figure out.I don't know about you but this kind of person gives me worst vibe for "trust" then even Archdemon.
So honestly if she can be spared for what she's done even though she didn't have excuse except "I'm selfish and greedy...so what" then yes sparing Loghain is even easier because to some degree he has at least some excuse(war trauma,fool Cailen on throne that acts as child while country is needing someone who doesn't live in 7th cloud,anger because Cailen cheated on Anora while she was left dealing with real problems of country that her husband didn't bother with,power for throne but that again brings as to 'fool Cailen on throne that lives on 7th cloud') take your pick at what could have caused him to betray you.Unlike Isabela Loghain does not hide nor justify his actions,he even admits hating for being Warden,he doesn't regret for leaving Cailen to die that much is obvious and I can't blame him for that one considering what kind of king Cailen was to country and husband to Anora so if I was general of some country I would want such fool removed as well and as parent I would kill him slowly for making my kid suffer.
But anyway each to their own.

I don't think that really addresses the argument I made.

[Hair Serious Business]

I don't think that really addresses the argument I made.

 

And I said each to their own 

I'm not lawyer to Loghain or Isabela or anyone in here.I just say what helped me to spare people like them despite the fact I wanted to slit their throats and send them to hell.I like Loghain and Isabela with same amount of passion...by putting my sword to their throats...still I let them slide because as I again said...I go with what is best for country and people not my personal feelings for someone.

[-TC1989-]

For me personally, I don't see much comparison between Loghain and Isabela. I'm guessing the biggest point between them is they both walked away at critical moments? I still think it's a long shot in comparing the two.

 

Loghain is a soldier of Ferelden that has been respected for how long? 30+ years? Something like that? And Isabela is a smuggler out of Rivain, just kicking around in Kirkwall. In what possible way do these two hold the same obligation to their given situations? Isabela had no real duty to protect Kirkwall, or fight off the Qun in any way, unless you are talking about her own situation, which is completely based on her own greed, and agenda. Loghain walks away, and leaves his best friend's son, and his king to die, and leave an important battle that paves a path for a threat into the country he is sworn to defend, and die for.

 

Morally there are similarities, but in no way have I ever thought to myself (yes, in my opinion) "Isabela is leaving the fight?... but... wait a minute... Loghain did this too   ". Hell with Hawke, I was more concerned with the fact she was leaving me. Not because I was selfish in my own desires, but because I never thought Isabela needed to save Kirkwall from anything. It isn't her fight, and I never felt it was up to her to face that. With Loghain, I hated him up until the Landsmeet, and then I understood. The war was not meant to be fought that day in Ostagar, ultimately making me decide to let Loghain live.

 

 

[Lady Artifice]

I just got my hands on the keep for the first time today and found out the stupid Cauthrien thing...

 

Spoiler

 

Isn't even tracked at all.

 

 

So frustrating. I get it, it's not something worth implementing. It just seems like something that should be known. 

 

Stupid Ostagar prisoner gets all the focus he could want and stupid Cauthrien doesn't even exist...

 

[TEWR]

What even was the point of the Ostagar prisoner being tracked anyway? What, is he going to show up and corroborate Loghain's (accurate) version of events?

[WarriorOfLight999]

For all we know, that prisoner you showed mercy to could end up discovering a new way to fight demons. Much like Alec the farmer will turn into Sir Alec, founder of an order of knights that will last for a thousand years.

 

The moral comparison between Loghain and Isabela isn't even remotely the same.

 

Loghain willfully commits atrocities that could have been avoided, and makes devastatingly bad decisions. He makes it very personal for my character, including assassination attempts and torture. That's not even counting the Human Noble and City Elf problems.

 

Isabela? She stole the relic and then....lied. Played dumb about the whole relic thing. It was foolish of her to not tell Hawke, because Hawke could have dealt with Castillon easily, and then negotiated with the Arishok. And yes, lives were lost. She bears responsibility, but not all of it. Petrice takes up a large chunk of the loss of life, as does Aveline, who pressed the issue by demanding the Arishok turn over those converts. And let's not forget the Qunari themselves, who did the killing. They should have thought like bas and checked the Hanged Man. Obvious place for a thief, really.

 

Isabela is greedy, but she's being coerced. And she turns around on her own accord. That's worth something. As the Arishok would not surrender those under his command, neither would I.

 

EDIT: Doesn't surprise me Cauthrien isn't tracked. Still, I could imagine her having a good story arc.

[Lady Artifice]

For all we know, that prisoner you showed mercy to could end up discovering a new way to fight demons. Much like Alec the farmer will turn into Sir Alec, founder of an order of knights that will last for a thousand years.

 

The moral comparison between Loghain and Isabela isn't even remotely the same.

 

Loghain willfully commits atrocities that could have been avoided, and makes devastatingly bad decisions. He makes it very personal for my character, including assassination attempts and torture. That's not even counting the Human Noble and City Elf problems.

 

Isabela? She stole the relic and then....lied. Played dumb about the whole relic thing. It was foolish of her to not tell Hawke, because Hawke could have dealt with Castillon easily, and then negotiated with the Arishok. And yes, lives were lost. She bears responsibility, but not all of it. Petrice takes up a large chunk of the loss of life, as does Aveline, who pressed the issue by demanding the Arishok turn over those converts. And let's not forget the Qunari themselves, who did the killing. They should have thought like bas and checked the Hanged Man. Obvious place for a thief, really.

 

Isabela is greedy, but she's being coerced. And she turns around on her own accord. That's worth something. As the Arishok would not surrender those under his command, neither would I.

 

EDIT: Doesn't surprise me Cauthrien isn't tracked. Still, I could imagine her having a good story arc.

 

About the first: it's not just that, but a lot of things about Awakening that are surprisingly left uncovered. How we dealt with the riot, the scheming nobles...Most of Awakening is untouched. I feel like those should be among the things potentially tracked, even if they aren't implemented. Sigrun is my favorite of the awakening companions, and the first reason I killed the Architect was for her. I want to noted whether she is convinced to stay alive with the Grey Wardens, as opposed to retreating back into the deep roads.

 

About the second: By the threat of Castillon, you mean? Hmm. I guess. I just think it's weird for her to be so scared of him when she's seen what Hawke is capable of, and she's already ticked him off of her own accord. Like you said, she's got to realize Hawke could kill him without a problem. 

 

 

...Oh, Castillion! Why doesn't it track her final companion quest??? They pose this issue like it's a big then that'll come back to bite her if she lets him live. That should be addressed...

[Monica21]

Why are there spoiler tags in this thread? This game is five years old.

[Lady Artifice]

Well, I only posted the spoiler thread about the keep...Which was just me trying to be very cautious and respectful. Perhaps it was silly. 

[Lady Artifice]

Also, I've posted far off topic twice now.

 

My apologies.

[Monica21]

Well, I only posted the spoiler thread about the keep...Which was just me trying to be very cautious and respectful. Perhaps it was silly. 

 

Not necessarily that, I'm just confused why anyone would think it necessary to spoiler tag a decision about Isolde.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

For all we know, that prisoner you showed mercy to could end up discovering a new way to fight demons. Much like Alec the farmer will turn into Sir Alec, founder of an order of knights that will last for a thousand years.

We find his corpse during RtO. The guard might do so, but the prisoner will not.

[-TC1989-]

For all we know, that prisoner you showed mercy to could end up discovering a new way to fight demons

 

You know what I find funny? The fact that people would question me left and right about me holding Alistair responsible for leaving the Wardens, and the war. Saying things like "Alistair had no idea about the archdemon, blah blah blah" or "You can't make the assumption that one Warden would make all the difference in the fight". Yet people can/will say things like this. Trying to make logical cases for scenarios like this, but putting Alistair in the same boat is out of the question. God forbid some prisoner in Ostagar might have ended up being the key source of a new way to stop demons, or who knows what. But the son of King Maric, a Grey freaking Warden has the right to leave Ferelden and abandon the blight if he so chooses, because his feelings got hurt, and didn't know he would make a difference against the darkspawn. I mean.... really??

 

By the way, I'm not bashing you WarriorOfLight999. I just read that sentence and thought to myself.... damn, people actually do these things.