When I metagame this decision, I know there are logical reasons to keep Loghain alive and Anora's idea for a poetic punishment of forcing him to become a Grey Warden is a good way to serve justice.
But I stay in character, and my character was pissed and had enough of him.
Executed.
You see, that's just it, the fact that virtually everyone except Loghain believes and takes the word of a Warden at face value says something about either Loghain or the rest of Thedas.
You see, that's just it, the fact that virtually everyone except Loghain believes and takes the word of a Warden at face value says something about either Loghain or the rest of Thedas.
Cailan didn't take Duncan's word that it was a blight. The gossipmongers we eavesdrop on don't think it's a blight. The soldiers at Ostagar didn't really think it was a blight, and were wondering (the two on that ledge behind the King's and Loghains tents) where all the darkspawn are coming from.
Calian believed Duncan enough to gather his armies and sit at Ostagar for an untold amount of time (Weeks at the very least considering Duncan's rather ... involved recruiting route.) and as I remember it he was more disappointed in the idea of not getting the glory of battling an Archdemon alongside the Wardens then anything.
Calian believed Duncan enough to gather his armies and sit at Ostagar for an untold amount of time (Weeks at the very least considering Duncan's rather ... involved recruiting route.) and as I remember it he was more disappointed in the idea of not getting the glory of battling an Archdemon alongside the Wardens then anything.
They weren't just sitting at Ostagar. They fought several battles, and won all of them.
So? Fact still remains that Calian believed in Duncan's word enough to gather said armies in the first place and stay there sans evidence of an actual Blight.
So? Fact still remains that Calian believed in Duncan's word enough to gather said armies in the first place and stay there sans evidence of an actual Blight.
There's evidence of a large darkspawn horde gathering in the south. The evidence is the horde itself and the tainted land.
If there's to be evidence of a blight, it requires an archdemon. Without an archdemon, there is no blight. Unless Duncan and the Wardens, or the scouts were able to pinpoint the archdemon, all the leaders knew for sure was that there was a horde of darkspawn.
That doesn't mean a blight off the bat. Even Alistair points it out that most think it's just an unusually large darkspawn raid because no one saw the archdemon.
And tracking down the archdemon and gathering evidence that it's a blight is the very reason Duncan went to Orzammar in the Dwarven Noble origin.
He says it to the Warden after talking to Cailan. "I know that an archdemon is behind this, but I cannot ask the King to act soley on my feelilngs."
The Horde itself was real and could be pointed to, and that is a very real threat worth calling all of Ferelden's armies together for, and everyone saw the darkspawn. No one saw an archdemon, except in Warden dreams.
You see, that's just it, the fact that virtually everyone except Loghain believes and takes the word of a Warden at face value says something about either Loghain or the rest of Thedas.
Both of them, really.
There's evidence of a large darkspawn horde gathering in the south. The evidence is the horde itself and the tainted land.
If there's to be evidence of a blight, it requires an archdemon. Without an archdemon, there is no blight. Unless Duncan and the Wardens, or the scouts were able to pinpoint the archdemon, all the leaders knew for sure was that there was a horde of darkspawn.
That doesn't mean a blight off the bat. Even Alistair points it out that most think it's just an unusually large darkspawn raid because no one saw the archdemon.
And tracking down the archdemon and gathering evidence that it's a blight is the very reason Duncan went to Orzammar in the Dwarven Noble origin.
He says it to the Warden after talking to Cailan. "I know that an archdemon is behind this, but I cannot ask the King to act soley on my feelilngs."
The Horde itself was real and could be pointed to, and that is a very real threat worth calling all of Ferelden's armies together for, and everyone saw the darkspawn. No one saw an archdemon, except in Warden dreams.
Yet again, it's redundant to ask for proof that they knew it was a blight because the Arch Demon never appeared until Denerim. The only other time you saw him physically was when your group saw him in the Dead Trenches. I never said he was calling it a Blight bud, I said that everyone else was starting to think it really was a blight except him. You obviously aren't paying attention. Why should anyone believe it was a blight until the Arch demon appeared? The Dalish believe you when you come to them telling them there's a blight coming. The dwarves believe you. The mages/templars believe you. But the kicker? None of them saw the Arch Demon, so how do they know the Wardens were telling the truth? Why didn't the other races just think it was a big darkspawn raid as well? So it's not ok for them to act on their feelings at Ostagar, but it's pretty much ok everywhere else. Alistair and the Warden don't know until they have the dream, but what physical proof do they have of the Arch Demon to present to all the races they went to? As I said, he didn't show himself until Denerim.
And another thing about Loghain's refusal to accept help, when you play Return to Ostagar, you find Celene's letters to Cailan in his chest. Orlais was ready and willing to come help but they were just waiting on a response. The ONLY one opposed to Orlais's help was Loghain. Loghain's pride is probably his biggest weakness
@Merle yes I'm glad someone's getting what I'm saying
And another thing about Loghain's refusal to accept help, when you play Return to Ostagar, you find Celene's letters to Cailan in his chest. Orlais was ready and willing to come help but they were just waiting on a response. The ONLY one opposed to Orlais's help was Loghain. Loghain's pride is probably his biggest weakness
It's a bit more complicated than that. Cailan would have needed the Landsmeet's support to bring Orlesian forces in, and plenty of nobles would have been willing to vote against bringing in the Orlesians-memories of the invasion die hard. He might not even have gotten majority support, and without political support those troops don't come in. You could even view the attempted assassination of Eamon as a way to minimize those political forces that could have helped Cailan win that vote.
It's a bit more complicated than that. Cailan would have needed the Landsmeet's support to bring Orlesian forces in, and plenty of nobles would have been willing to vote against bringing in the Orlesians-memories of the invasion die hard. He might not even have gotten majority support, and without political support those troops don't come in. You could even view the attempted assassination of Eamon as a way to minimize those political forces that could have helped Cailan win that vote.
Sure they would've needed the landsmeet, but as I said..Majority of those showed signs of wanting help. Loghain was the only one against it. Loghain was also behind the poisoning of Eamon if that says anything. Complications aside, Orlais was ready to help. Pretty sure if they had the choice of losing their King or asking for help, they would've gone with help. Ironic how Loghain didn't want their help yet here we are striking an alliance with them in Inquisition
Edt: So after redoing Howe and the landsmeet, the Orlaisian help wasn't that complicated. Riordan explained it as to what was going to happen. In regards to Loghain and the Blight, he finally starts addressing it as a Blight when Eamon and you confront him. Not only that, he tries to blame all his faults on Eamon. That he "divided the country" and all that nonsense when it was actually Loghain who did. I think Anora explained it best that the man was paranoid. He was mad with ambition over the throne
My primary Warden is a Dalish elf, so Logain's a dead man every time the business of selling Alienage elves into Tevinter comes to light. Sorry, Logain, no statue for you.
My primary Warden is a Dalish elf, so Logain's a dead man every time the business of selling Alienage elves into Tevinter comes to light. Sorry, Logain, no statue for you.
Did you remember to make Alistair sole ruler? If Anora's on the throne, with or without Alistair next to her, she builds her father a statue if he dies during Origins regardless of the circumstances of his death.
Did you remember to make Alistair sole ruler? If Anora's on the throne, with or without Alistair next to her, she builds her father a statue if he dies during Origins regardless of the circumstances of his death.
Alistair is always sole ruler when I'm doing my Dalish playthrough. That Warden figures it's a good for his people in the long term to have someone who can be at least somewhat swayed to Dalish interests on the throne, and Anora doesn't come across as being all that suggestable. 
Alistair is always sole ruler when I'm doing my Dalish playthrough. That Warden figures it's a good for his people in the long term to have someone who can be at least somewhat swayed to Dalish interests on the throne, and Anora doesn't come across as being all that suggestable.
The logic makes sense, but actually Anora apparently gives him more leeway than you'd think as far as making the country more just. (Though my source is the epilogue in Origins, which I'm aware we need to take with a grain of salt.)
My 'canon' Warden is an elf mage from Denerim who is HIGHLY opposed to blood magic. The ONLY reason he considered sparing Loghain was the conversation between Loghain and Anora, but even that couldn't save Loghain in the end.
If you play the game as a friendly person you eventually build up a relationship with Alistair to the point of him almost bring a brother to the Warden.
Loghain? He will never really like you.
I got rather the opposite impression, though I can understand a Warden who fears that this may be the case.
Playing through to DA: I, I certainly preferred having let him live.
After all, then I got to let him redeem himself once and for all.
If you play the game as a friendly person you eventually build up a relationship with Alistair to the point of him almost bring a brother to the Warden.
Loghain? He will never really like you. Hell if he weren't a warden with you he'd leave you instantly!
This isn't even considering the fact that he hired Zevran to kill you, attempted to frame his own daughters death on you, tried to kill Arl Eamon, tried to kill you himself, and I haven't even mentioned the "tactical" withdrawal from a King that he swore fealty to and probably to die for him. Bann Teagan was right when he said that his withdrawal was most "fortuitous".
So it's for the personal reasons and his actions that every time I feel like he should be condemned to death. And there are even times I wish I could kill Anora. She says she'll support Alistair if you ask her to...what happens? She claims tge Wardens are the worst thing to ever happen to Ferelden...during a Blight, no less! But it is for her one scene where she argues with Loghain that I think...she can live, just not in Ferelden.
I'm going to assume that every time you talked to him after recruiting him you chose the rudest option possible, right?
attempted to frame his own daughters death on you
Well somebody missed the memo on how Loghain shot it down when Howe brought the idea up to him and Howe said "**** it" and started planning it out behind Loghain's back.
and I haven't even mentioned the "tactical" withdrawal from a King that he swore fealty to and probably to die for him
I bloody friggin' hate this overly romanticized sentiment of war.
tried to kill Arl Eamon
Don't care, it's politics. Eamon is hardly a saint (in fact he's power-hungry himself).
This isn't even considering the fact that he hired Zevran to kill you
Well the Crows did feel Loghain was the best option at that point. And if you made a friend out of Zevran, then it's all good.
I bloody friggin' hate this overly romanticized sentiment of war.
No effing shyte. Medieval feudalism = winner winner chicken dinner. You win, you get stuff. As a Cousland, yeah, I'm super pissed that Howe betrayed my father. As a player, Bryce got outplayed. *shrug*
This is an Endless Thread.
But yes Loghain must live and then Die, for who love his character give to him is redemption, for who dislike his character Kill even his soul.
Every time I play through the Landsmeet, I see glimpses of the man Loghain was before he became power-mad. Replaying old saves for purposes of fanfic writing doesn't make it any different, even knowing the outcome. My canon Warden still struggles with the decision he made to kill Loghain, and if it had been Howe's seal on the slaver documents instead of Loghain's, I think he might have chosen to spare him. It takes some skillful writing to portray an antagonist that's that complex, and I can understand why some people feel he deserves a chance to redeem himself.
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