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[Mockingword]

This is something I only recently noticed, but now that I have, it really bothers me.

 

Both main Dragon Age games, and I think at least two games in the Mass Effect series, allow the player to visit a brothel or strip club, and allow the player to solicit the services of a prostitute, or get a private dance. A lot of games do this, actually. Bioware aren't even the worst offenders. But I'm posting here because it seems like they are the most likely to listen to what I'm going to say.

 

Thing is, I have RL friends who work in the sex industry; prostitutes and strippers who also occasionally perform in live sex shows. But these people are not just sex workers, they are parents, they are students of medecine and law, they volunteer at homeless shelters and animal rescue organisations. Some of them are gamers, and yes, they even play Bioware games.

 

Because I have the privilege of knowing these individuals, I am privy to first-hand accounts of how exploitative and dangerous the sex industry can be, and I'm also aware of the stigma that surrounds people who try to leave the sex industry and get "legitimate" jobs.

 

Given the trend so far, I expect Inquisition is going to include a brothel. And maybe it's too late now for any changes to be made, but nevertheless, I am requesting that, going forward, Bioware consider humanising their prostitute and stripper characters (maybe include one as a party member?), and presenting a more nuanced, multifaceted and, above all, accurate view of the sex industry and its workers, rather than using it as an avenue for player titillation and cheap jokes.

[Maiden Crowe]

 (maybe include one as a party member?)

 

Didn't they already do that with Isabella?

[ZombieOberyn]

This seems to a be a good opprotunity to bring up the topic of allowing the PC to become a legitimate businessman of this industry, sometimes referred to as a "pimp" in modern terminology. Despite the negative portrayal by some critics being a pimp is an old and noble profession dating back to ancient times. It exemplifies some of society's greatest traditions of chivalry and honor and would be a postive role model for younger players. These businessmen not only support their local communities but they also represent their workers to ensure they earn a fair pay for their work. Like a good manager of any modern business the "pimp" makes sure the "hoes" (industry slang for female sex industry professionals) do their part to make sure the business runs smoothly and benefits all involved. Surely a company like Bioware that says they are foward-thinking would nderstand the benefits of showing this profession in a respectable manner.

[Bob from Accounting]

Being 'accurate' not mean showing characters as nuanced and multifaceted.

 

In pretty much every game ever made, the shopkeeper is just the shopkeeper. He's the guy who buys your crap and sells you swords. We never learn about his hobbies. Or his wife and kids. Or his dreams and ambitions.

 

That's not oppressing shopkeepers. It's just nobody bothering to tell his background story because nobody cares.

 

We don't need to hear the life story of a prostitute unless it's important for the narrative somehow.

[Darth Krytie]

Didn't they already do that with Isabella?

 

Isabela is not a prostitute. She's a pirate who doesn't let the world dictate her sex life.

[Mockingword]

Didn't they already do that with Isabella?

If Isabela ever worked as a prostitute, it didn't come up. So it's not representation.

[Maiden Crowe]

Isabela is not a prostitute.

 

Are you sure?

[Mockingword]

Being 'accurate' not mean showing characters as nuanced and multifaceted.

 

In pretty much every game ever made, the shopkeeper is just the shopkeeper. He's the guy who buys you crap and sells you swords. We never learn about his hobbies. Or his wife and kids. Or his dreams and ambitions.

 

That's not oppressing shopkeepers. It's just nobody bothering to tell his background story because nobody cares.

Right, but shopkeepers aren't demeaned or belittled in media and real life. Shopkeepers aren't forced into their profession out of sheer desperation, and shopkeepers who leave the shopkeeping industry don't suffer social stigma when they speak out about their shopkeeping experiences.

 

Basically, the representation of shopkeepers in media doesn't hurt shopkeepers in real life the same way that the representation of sex workers does.

 

Here's a thought: maybe the life story of a prostitute should be made important to the narrative. Maybe all narratives should consider the impact they might have on the people who read them and society at large.

[Darth Krytie]

Are you sure?

I've never seen her getting paid for sexual services in all my twenty two playthroughs of DA2.

[Mockingword]

This seems to a be a good opprotunity to bring up the topic of allowing the PC to become a legitimate businessman of this industry, sometimes referred to as a "pimp" in modern terminology. Despite the negative portrayal by some critics being a pimp is an old and noble profession dating back to ancient times. It exemplifies some of society's greatest traditions of chivalry and honor and would be a postive role model for younger players. These businessmen not only support their local communities but they also represent their workers to ensure they earn a fair pay for their work. Like a good manager of any modern business the "pimp" makes sure the "hoes" (industry slang for female sex industry professionals) do their part to make sure the business runs smoothly and benefits all involved. Surely a company like Bioware that says they are foward-thinking would nderstand the benefits of showing this profession in a respectable manner.

The only benefit of portraying exploitative and abusive individuals as respectable businessmen is that it allows exploitative and abusive individuals to keep being exploitative and abusive.

[Maiden Crowe]

I've never seen her getting paid for sexual services in all my twenty two playthroughs of DA2.

 

Isn't that the point though? As many people have already pointed out in one of my threads that in DA2 the goal was to give the impression that while companions weren't personally accompanying you they were off doing whatever it is they do, just because you never saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[ZombieOberyn]

The only benefit of portraying exploitative and abusive individuals as respectable businessmen is that it allows exploitative and abusive individuals to keep being exploitative and abusive.

You sir have obviously been negatively influenced by the propaganda of certain special interest groups looking to undermine a legitimate industry. The "pimp" is he who ensures workers aren't exploited and abused by a society that would devalue their work. The "pimp" is he who ensures this line of business runs like a well oiled machine as opposed to some sort of criminal activity that those special interest groups would portray it as. Don't be fooled by the lack of proper representation before the politicans who often make use of these services the "pimp" provides. This is an important area of economic activity.

[Darth Krytie]

Isn't that the point though? As many people have already pointed out in one of my threads that in DA2 the goal was to give the impression that while companions weren't personally accompanying you they were off doing whatever it is they do, just because you never saw it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

It also could have just not have happened. So, unless Isabela tells my character specifically that she's a sex worker, then I won't refer to her as such.

[Mockingword]

You sir have obviously been negatively influenced by the propaganda of certain special interest groups looking to undermine a legitimate industry. The "pimp" is he who ensures workers aren't exploited and abused by a society that would devalue their work. The "pimp" is he who ensures this line of business runs like a well oiled machine as opposed to some sort of criminal activity that those special interest groups would portray it as. Don't be fooled by the lack of proper representation before the politicans who often make use of these services the "pimp" provides. This is an important area of economic activity.

Except that's not true at all? The sex industry is exploitative by nature, and "ensuring this line of business runs" also means making sure the prostitutes don't leave, even if they want to.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I fear this thread will get locked before reaching double digits in page numbers. 

[Mockingword]

If bioware give you males a lot of people are going to take it the wrong way and get upset like anders and i think bioware are not going to go that far with male sex workers i don't care im male i only romance females but a lot of other people will make a big deal out of it you will only get a couple of males like Da2

What?

 

I'm not complaining about a lack of male sex workers in Dragon Age. There are already several male sex workers in Dragon Age.

[Mockingword]

I fear this thread will get locked before reaching double digits in page numbers. 

If it does, I'll make another one, and I'll keep making them.

[Just My Moniker]

If it does, I'll make another one, and I'll keep making them

My thread lock senses... they're tingling!

[Mes]

Um I guess I'll jump in...

 

I too would like to see a game where, if they must include brothels for whatever reason, they also take the time to explore employees' backgrounds and sort of delve into all the negatives of the industry, not just use it as a place for pervy fun-time. We're so far from understanding the realities of prostitution though, so I don't know if it'll happen in a hurry.

 

 

 

(Guys, honestly, stop with the "ooh this will get locked" comments. Not helping.)

[Maiden Crowe]

It also could have just not have happened. So, unless Isabela tells my character specifically that she's a sex worker, then I won't refer to her as such.

 

Do you always need to be told things to know they are true? The true measure of a good writer is the ability to portray aspects of a character's personality without necessarily needing to show or outright state them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I want the option to destroy said  prostitution establishment.

[wolfhowwl]

You sir have obviously been negatively influenced by the propaganda of certain special interest groups looking to undermine a legitimate industry. The "pimp" is he who ensures workers aren't exploited and abused by a society that would devalue their work. The "pimp" is he who ensures this line of business runs like a well oiled machine as opposed to some sort of criminal activity that those special interest groups would portray it as. Don't be fooled by the lack of proper representation before the politicans who often make use of these services the "pimp" provides. This is an important area of economic activity.

 

Indeed. In these trying economic times it is disturbing to see such rampant anti-business rhetoric.

 

Our friends on the left-wing may mean well but they must be made to understand that their efforts will only destroy jobs and hurt those they are trying to help most.

[ZombieOberyn]

Except that's not true at all? The sex industry is exploitative by nature, and "ensuring this line of business runs" also means making sure the prostitutes don't leave, even if they want to.

 

Surely you understand that as in many industries the pimp makes an investment when these sex industry professions are "hired" and given a respected in the pimp's company. When profit margins are as tight as they are currently the pimp must ensure that, at a minimum, he earns back the resources he has invested in these employees.

 

Honestly, as somebody looking for a more accurate representation of the sex industry I would have thought you to be more understanding of this industry and the negative commentary directed at such legitimate businessmen. The pimp is little different from the historical "madame", he just merely represents the modern industry where such gender constraints no longer apply to the CEOs of such businesses.

 

Indeed. In these trying economic times it is disturbing to see such rampant anti-business rhetoric.

 

Our friends on the left-wing may mean well but they must be made to understand that their efforts will only destroy jobs and hurt those they are trying to help most.

 

Thank you for the understanding. In an economic recession like this it is downright wrong to misrepresent this important trade.

[Darth Krytie]

Do you always need to be told things to know they are true? The true measure of a good writer is the ability to portray aspects of a character's personality without necessarily needing to show or outright state them.

 

Perhaps if you work a little harder on being condescending I'll consider answering the next question.