159 réponses à ce sujet

[Mockingword]

I'm sympathetic to your idea; sex work is played for cheap laughs in most games, when actually it can be both darker and more complex. 

 

But you do run into the problem of comparatively minor characters, who you actually aren't meant to know all that much about, suddenly giving you their life story.  If you're familiar with Blackadder II; "Look, if I'd wanted a lecture on the rights of man, I'd have gone to bed with Martin Luther."  Maybe a quest where you help an unhappy sex-worker find a way out, like you could with Athenril's indentured lad in DA2.  Or maybe a quest where you gain an apprenticeship or patronage deal at the Pearl for someone who wants to get into the business, but doesn't want the dangers of street work?  Or setting up a promising lad or lass with an Orlesian bard, so they can learn the metaphorical ropes? Do you have any ideas for how to do it without getting too heavy handed? 

 

There's also the Firefly approach.  I know it has its problems, but making sex work a legitimate, regulated business where you learn your trade before you ply it, and have to answer to a guild might be one way to go.

 

It'd be hard to write, and it'd be particularly hard to write a sex-worker companion, because the skill-set they would be using as your companion possibly wouldn't involve much sex-work.  Even though Bards use sex in the course of their intrigues, their in-game skills are more about the singing and distracting ...

Well, sex workers aren't only sex workers, that was my point. Few people actually aspire to a career in prostitution. In the real world, people fall into the trap of sex work because they need money to pay for a degree, or they lack skills, or can't get a job that uses the skills they do have, and they are simply broke and desperate.

 

When I say "have a sex worker in the party", I don't mean that they would continue to work in the sex industry and only contribute to saving the world on their time off. I mean they would leave the sex industry in order to pursue this other opportunity. And I definitely don't want them to display absurd battle skills like "distracting the enemy with sex appeal" or whatever. That's pretty much the opposite of what I want. Ideally, the character would be as well-rounded as any other party member, and their past as a prostitute would be just one aspect of a rich backstory. But it was just a suggestion.

 

I'm not so interested in making Thedas's sex industry more palatable. Although I'm not opposed to a setting where sex work isn't exploitative, I'd rather have more games that confront the reality of it, even if those games are fantastical in other areas.

 

Bioware gives humanity and depth to thieves and murderers, makes them sympathetic and even likeable. I mean, Sten murdered an entire freaking family for no reason, but all anybody cares about on here is his love of cookies.

 

Prostitutes aren't doing anything wrong at all, so it shouldn't be hard for Bioware to inject at least one with a similar degree of humanity and pathos.

[ZombieOberyn]

Whats the Thedas equivalent of the hot blonde chick trying to make enough money to finish her law degree? Everybody loves that story.

[Mr.House]

Really? Out of everything that should be worked on, you target hookers? La sigh.

[Mockingword]

Really? Out of everything that should be worked on, you target hookers? La sigh.

Sex workers.

 

Obviously you don't care, or you would've used more respectful terminology in the first place, but you are talking about a group of people that includes individuals that I know and care about in real life.

 

So yes, how my friends are represented in Dragon Age, a game that I talked them into purchasing because of how inclusive it is, means a damn sight more to me than... darkspawn designs or whatever stupid bullshit you think needs fixing.

[Mockingword]

Better representation of sex workers? lol

 

Hmm...I wonder what kind of idiotic thread is going to be started next. Blow up sex doll as a companion? Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Sex workers are not comparable to blow-up dolls.

[Mr.House]

Sex workers.

 

Obviously you don't care, or you would've used more respectful terminology in the first place, but you are talking about a group of people that includes individuals that I know and care about in real life.

 

So yes, how my friends are represented in Dragon Age, a game that I talked them into purchasing because of how inclusive it is, means a damn sight more to me than... darkspawn designs or whatever stupid bullshit you think needs fixing.They are workers who give you a service. No different then going to the beer store and going to the cashier to get a six pack. Do you ask about their life story too?

 

 

They are workers who give you a service. No different then the cashier at the beer store selling you a six pack. You see them to get a service.

 

Also I like how you assume me, on the contray would not be opposed to the idea as long as it's a optional side quest like the Gomorrah in NV where it's up to the player to do or simply keep it business between PC and worker.  Again though, in the game world they are workers who give a service just like merchants who sell wares who also have no life story they tell you.

[ZombieOberyn]

Sex workers.

 

Obviously you don't care, or you would've used more respectful terminology in the first place, but you are talking about a group of people that includes individuals that I know and care about in real life.

 

So yes, how my friends are represented in Dragon Age, a game that I talked them into purchasing because of how inclusive it is, means a damn sight more to me than... darkspawn designs or whatever stupid bullshit you think needs fixing.

 

That doesn't mean more to the majority of players. Creating an interesting enemy is far more importance than seeing a new rendition of the classic "hooker with a heart of gold" tale. This is still a game where there are clear priorities to ensure commercial success. So yes, just about everything has priority over this.

 

The whole "ex-brothel girl joining up with the party" thing isn't exactly the most original idea either.

[Mockingword]

They are workers who give you a service. No different then the cashier at the beer store selling you a six pack. You see them to get a service.

 

Also I like how you assume me, on the contray would not be opposed to the idea as long as it's a optional side quest like the Gomorrah in NV where it's up to the player to do or simply keep it business between PC and worker.  Again though, in the game world they are workers who give a service just like merchants who sell wares who also have no life story they tell you.

I don't care if you're opposed to the idea or not.

 

Prostitution is not "just a business". The "service" these people provide is at the expense of their own health and safety, and yes, I expect games that include a prostitution feature to acknowledge that. At the very least.

[Mr.House]

You know, you're right! Blow up dolls have no choice in the matter but prostitutes do. They know exactly what they're getting themselves into. So I don't feel one bit sorry for them. 

Moxxi avatar just makes this post funnier.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You know, you're right! Blow up dolls have no choice in the matter but prostitutes do. They know exactly what they're getting themselves into. So I don't feel one bit sorry for them. 

I'm sure those little girls forced into becoming sex slaves or prostitutes agree with you. 

[Mr.House]

I don't care if you're opposed to the idea or not.

 

Prostitution is not "just a business". The "service" these people provide is at the expense of their own health and safety, and yes, I expect games that include a prostitution feature to acknowledge that. At the very least.

Then every worker should have a quest about their life story then, because like it or not, prostitutes are WORKERS. They are paid to do a service, and people who want this service normally don't give a crap, just like when you go to the store to buy something somewhere that you are not a regular or what not. You seem to think sex workers are excluded from being treated like every other worker in the game world. Stop pushing your agendas into people and if you don't care if people are opposed then why bother create a topic on a public forum that is made to talk and debate?

[Mockingword]

You know, you're right! Blow up dolls have no choice in the matter but prostitutes do. They know exactly what they're getting themselves into. So I don't feel one bit sorry for them. 

You know, it's funny, a lot of the current and former sex workers I know were lured or forced into the industry as children. Some were kidnapped by sex traffickers, or sold by their families.

 

Wait, that's not funny.

[Mockingword]

Then every worker should have a quest about their life story then, because like it or not, prostitutes are WORKERS. They are paid to do a service, and people who want this service normally don't give a crap, just like when you go to the store to buy something somewhere that you are not a regular or what not. You seem to think sex workers are excluded from being treated like every other worker in the game world. Stop pushing your agendas into people and if you don't care if people are opposed then why bother create a topic on a public forum that is made to talk and debate?

I don't care that you're opposed, I care that you're grossly insensitive.

[AresKeith]

I really wish people would stop trying to turn everything into some form of social justice

 

Can a mod lock this thread already

[ZombieOberyn]

Now released on Ancient Tome™, Forbidden Magicks III. These 18 year old apostate girls will do anything for some coin. Order today and get a free copy of Chantry Girls Gone Wild VI.

[Mr.House]

I don't care that you're opposed, I care that you're grossly insensitive.

How am I insensitive? Because unlike you I realize that work is work and no worker should be given unique treatment let alone forced into your face if it does not belong and simply exist just to please you. Yes how dare I be so insensitive. I gave you a good example of how it could be done and it should be OPTIONAL, because people will have characters that go to a brothel to guess what? HAVE SEX. This is why it should not be mandatory, you as always are forcing your agenda down peoples throats.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I really wish people would stop trying to turn everything into some form of social justice

 

Can a mod lock this thread already

I agree on the topic being locked. The longer this is open, the more tension will build up and things will only escalate.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 Obviously I'm talking about the ones who choose to go into it willingly not the ones forced into it. So spare me.

You said prostitutes, not some prostitutes, choose that path. Next time don't speak in absolutes like that or else misunderstandings like mine will happen.

[Stelae]

 

When I say "have a sex worker in the party", I don't mean that they would continue to work in the sex industry and only contribute to saving the world on their time off. I mean they would leave the sex industry in order to pursue this other opportunity. And I definitely don't want them to display absurd battle skills like "distracting the enemy with sex appeal" or whatever. That's pretty much the opposite of what I want. Ideally, the character would be as well-rounded as any other party member, and their past as a prostitute would be just one aspect of a rich backstory. But it was just a suggestion.

 

I'm not so interested in making Thedas's sex industry more palatable. Although I'm not opposed to a setting where sex work isn't exploitative, I'd rather have more games that confront the reality of it, even if those games are fantastical in other areas.

 

Bioware gives humanity and depth to thieves and murderers, makes them sympathetic and even likeable. I mean, Sten murdered an entire freaking family for no reason, but all anybody cares about on here is his love of cookies.

 

Aveline kept her day job.  It's not out of the question for someone to be a DA companion and have a career. 

 

Having someone having sex-work as part of their back story would indeed be interesting, but no more so than, say, glass-blowing or being a bard or an apostate or tanner.  Yes, it adds colour and interest, and might, if written well, make a character more interesting, but it's not necessarily going to come up in the course of your adventures.

 

I thought the denizens of the Pearl were plenty likeable; professional, varied, wiling to wear boas in some cases.  As NPCs they were certainly more interesting than Jean-Luc who sold robes, but not as interesting as Tomwise or Elegant.  The story dictates.  Like I said above, fleshing them out more by attaching quests to them might make for a deeper portrayal, but it'd have to be really well-written to avoid the "hooker with a heart of gold" and "saved from worse than death" tropes, which are insulting to sex workers for all sorts of other reasons. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh please, this is the internet. No matter what is said someone is going to take it the wrong way. 

And thus it is on the poster to be as clear as possible to at least limit the amount of misunderstanding.