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The Keep, Saving Importing, Modding and Sexuality (my fears)


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#1
Spirit Keeper

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 Be warned, this is a big read. I like to go into detail when I say or explain something. Feel free to skim  :)

 

I play the series on PC and have modded characters. In DA:O I was a Male, Human Noble Mage. My character was gay and romanced Alistair and they became kings of Ferelden. Because of save importing, Awakening and DA2 recognised that my Warden was a: Male, b:Human Nobel c: Mage d:Gay e:Romanced Alistair in an s/s relationship and rules the country together (It was nice seeing Alistair come to meet his king in Awakening dawww :3). Bodahn referred to the marriage in DA2.

So since it seems save importing won't be in DA:I (though I have seen tweets from...however long ago, saying that they were hoping to implement save importing) i'm afraid they won't have the options to recreate my Gay Warden/Alistair pairing using the keep. I only mention this because even though I did it though modding, BECAUSE DA:O, DA:A and DA2 used save importing, it still recognised everything. I'm not sure how aware the Dragon Age team at Bioware is of modding, especially went to comes to same sex romances, but if they are going to go for The Keep only then I really would like FULL control over the options I use to create the save. Don't just lock me into HAVING to pick a female rogue/warrior in order to have married Alistair and become his joint ruler. Let me recreate my gay noble mage who is married to Alistair as the kings of Ferelden. If The Keep method is a bust then I guess i'll just have to cross my nuts that save importing happens. Note: see my post on page 4 to clarify this topic.

 

As for the engine thing. My character in DA:O and DA2 was a mage Warden/Hawke and I wore many different armours (the DA2 templar armour, Hawke Mage Champion armour, Sebastian's armour and the regalia of weisshaupt etc. for both games) and used a greatswords, staves (Starfang, Parthalan etc again through modding). Since it may be impossible to mod DA:I i'm worried that we'll lose so much custom content, i'm thinking specifically ported armour and weapons which is how I was able to use all those items in both of the games so far.

I guess i'm scared that in trying to ship a beautiful game they will be cutting out user creativity which as been a staple of PC gaming for so many years in Bioware games. My first ever mod was for the first Knights of the Old Republic game and I finally got round to making a DA2 mod.

 

 

Now for the sexuality thing. Bioware has depicted every non-straight character so far as being promiscuous, yes Morrigan says that she has had many men however She is perhaps the straight romance (that I can think of) in the series who has had casual sex. As a gay man myself playing these games it comes across as Bioware thinking that all non-straight people just have sex, sex, sex and more sex. I'm not a stereotype and my sexuality isn't something to be fetishised.

 

Aveline: woman - Does the whole marriage before sex thing.

Merrill: woman - Isn't stated to be promiscuous. Her whole clan hates her and she doesn't exactly seem like a people person.

Alistair: Straight male - Virgin.

Sebastian: Straight male: Chaste.

Anders, Zevran, Fenris, Isabela, Leliana also are promiscuous for differing reason but at the end of the day all of them are non-straight and they are all promiscuous.

 

I have no issues with anyone who want to engage in casual sex and I think it is good that Bioware are representing those people in their games, but this isn't my true issue. What I do not appreciate that I haven't been represented in any of the games so far in the romances, I like many of my fellow LGBT people are not all sex crazed 24/7 casual sex, sexy sex. I guess this is somewhat of a rant because i'm feeling that Bioware has the mindset at we are all like that, I hope that isn't the case but after so many Bioware games, that's how it feels and that's rather sad. With so many people consuming video games I feel that Bioware is perpetuating a stereotype which is an issue and speaking for myself, as someone who over the years has had people give me the look of being genuinely surprised when i've corrected them in saying that i'm still a virgin because they've assumed I must have had lots of sex based on my sexuality alone (some more of the werido ones which refused to believe me when I tried correcting them). I don't want Bioware to stop making promiscuous characters, I just want them to stop making them ALL that way, especially the men. I ended up romancing Merrill in DA2 out of spite because my only choices where Anders or Fenris  -_-. (though I will admit that she's super cute and sweet with such a nice accent).

 

Edit/Note/Thing: I don't think anyone so far as misinterpreted what I have said about the sexuality part yet, this is good and I thank all for not doing that since it probably has to highest potential to be a hot topic, again thanks. Still I do what to make this part just a bit more clear for new people who come across this thread so they don't misinterpret. I have no issues with characters like Isabela, Anders, Zevran being in the game, I think their inclusion is a good thing and makes the games more realistic. What my issue is that for a progressive company like Bioware, the idea of a non-straight character not wanting to have casual sex doesn't seem to have crossed their minds. Search 'tvtropes - All Gays Are Promiscuous' to get a better feeling on my issues. I feel non-straight people are being stereotyped and that bothers me as someone who isn't like that.

 

However I am still looking forward to playing Inquisition and playing as a blood mage, hopefully i'll finally be able to change people's minds on blood magic so they won't kill me. My heart almost stopped when Wynn right in front of Greagoir
and Irving, accused me of using blood magic....which I was. I convinced them I wasn't but I reloaded to see where it would go. I told them I was using blood magic and then Greagoir tried to arrest me. I had to kill Wynn, Irving, Greagoir, the mages, the templars. Never again, it was horrible.


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#2
Mes

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OOH sorry can I ask... which gay mod did you use with Alistair? I've only come across the one where he sees your male Warden as a female, and then I came across another one which apparently fixed most of the dialogue issues (where he refers to you with the correct pronouns etc), but the mod itself seemed to be really buggy?

 

For what it's worth I thought Alistair being a virgin (and that being played up as an endearing thing) was very refreshing. Usually you get women shyly admitting they're virgins for your ravishing, not men. :P

 

In terms of importing modded saves... I'm kinda of the opinion that it shouldn't be Bioware's responsibility to recognize changes you've made to their core game.

 

I personally didn't feel like most of the characters have been promiscuous. What specifically would you like to see in a future character in terms of sex? 



#3
Darth Krytie

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I never saw Fenris or Anders as promiscuous. Not like Zevran and Isabela were.

 

I'm not necessarily against them acknowledging the Kings of Ferelden, but I don't consider them obligated to ensure it either.



#4
Spirit Keeper

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OOH sorry can I ask... which gay mod did you use with Alistair? I've only come across the one where he sees your male Warden as a female, and then I came across another one which apparently fixed most of the dialogue issues (where he refers to you with the correct pronouns etc), but the mod itself seemed to be really buggy?

 

For what it's worth I thought Alistair being a virgin (and that being played up as an endearing thing) was very refreshing. Usually you get women shyly admitting they're virgins for your ravishing, not men. :P

 

In terms of importing modded saves... I'm kinda of the opinion that it shouldn't be Bioware's responsibility to recognize changes you've made to their core game.

 

I personally didn't feel like most of the characters have been promiscuous. What specifically would you like to see in a future character in terms of sex? 

The mod I used, and I have a feeling it might be the one you used too, was called Equal Love. You can also use it to romance Morrigan as a female warden.

 

I guess I sort of agree with how you feel about Bioware and the changes to the core game. I just bring it up because the old save importing system allowed changes to be recognised when importing into DLC and DA2.

 

Anders, Isabela and Zevran are very open about it. Leliana was using it more as a tool of the trade but still. Fenris by act 3 will be sleeping with Isabela if neither are romanced. Fenris is a bit of a stretch but since he can be romanced by either gendered Hawke and will do the Isabela thing by act 3 I thought I should include him.

 

I wouldn't mind having someone like Alistair (in terms of sexual history) but just happens to be gay or bi. There was Kaidan in the mass effect series but that was a different team, Steve Cortez in any other situation would be fine but it just kind of adds to that 'if you aren't straight then you must have sex', it isn't casual or anything but it doesn't help in this situation (plus being in ME3 only and not even a companion AND just getting over suicidal thoughts after his husbands death...yeah, not very magical lol).



#5
Spirit Keeper

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I never saw Fenris or Anders as promiscuous. Not like Zevran and Isabela were.

 

I'm not necessarily against them acknowledging the Kings of Ferelden, but I don't consider them obligated to ensure it either.

Look at my reply to Mes as I explain the Fenris bit and the save thing. As for Anders, in DA:A and DA2 he makes no bones about his sleeping with the mages in the circle, the robes make it easier don't you know lol. DA2 has him and Isabela talking about his many visits to The Pearl, apparently he liked this one red headed woman. He and Isabela have also been at it in the pearl

 

Actually just a little more on the save thing, if Bioware didn't give you the options to do what I did in my save then wouldn't that mean they took the time to actively block those functions? Though I won't pretend to have a clue on how they are making The Keep work though. I wouldn't expect them to write gender specific lines (though that would be awesome) just for me. I spend my playthough of DA:O having Alistair and the Epilogue refer to my character as female/queen. Bodahn called me Queen in DA2. Kaidan called me a beautiful woman in Mass Effect.



#6
Maria Caliban

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My female Warden managed to do the dark ritual with Morrigan because of a conversational bug. Yeah, I suspect the Keep won't allow me to set that in the variables.

As for ****** vs straight promiscuity, we've only had three straight love interests and two of them have slept around. Yes, Sebastian is all about chaste marriage now, but he talks about all the women he used to sleep with and is far from Alistar's blushing virgin status.

Alternatively, Merrill and Fenris are both non-'promiscuous.'

Edit: wait, ****** is a swear word?

No seriously, why is my sexuality an obscenity?
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#7
Darth Krytie

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My female Warden managed to do the dark ritual with Morrigan because of a conversational bug. Yeah, I suspect the Keep won't allow me to set that in the variables.

As for ****** vs straight promiscuity, we've only had three straight love interests and two of them have slept around. Yes, Sebastian is all about chaste marriage now, but he talks about all the women he used to sleep with and is far from Alistar's blushing virgin status.

Alternatively, Merrill and Fenris are both non-'promiscuous.'

Edit: wait, ****** is a swear word?

No seriously, why is my sexuality an obscenity?

 

You can write homosexuality, but not the Q-word which is odd to me.


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#8
Althix

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i think 'mod' word is pretty much case and point.



#9
Spirit Keeper

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My female Warden managed to do the dark ritual with Morrigan because of a conversational bug. Yeah, I suspect the Keep won't allow me to set that in the variables.

As for ****** vs straight promiscuity, we've only had three straight love interests and two of them have slept around. Yes, Sebastian is all about chaste marriage now, but he talks about all the women he used to sleep with and is far from Alistar's blushing virgin status.

Alternatively, Merrill and Fenris are both non-'promiscuous.'

Edit: wait, ****** is a swear word?

No seriously, why is my sexuality an obscenity?

 

You can write homosexuality, but not the Q-word which is odd to me.

Really? let my try. ****** 

 

Edit: Well i'll be damned


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#10
Mockingword

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It would be nice if they retroactively made it possible in the Keep to have same-sex relationships with Alistair or Morrigan, since they know now how popular the options would have been, had they really existed.

 

But I'm not holding my breath.


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#11
Spirit Keeper

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My female Warden managed to do the dark ritual with Morrigan because of a conversational bug. Yeah, I suspect the Keep won't allow me to set that in the variables.

As for ****** vs straight promiscuity, we've only had three straight love interests and two of them have slept around. Yes, Sebastian is all about chaste marriage now, but he talks about all the women he used to sleep with and is far from Alistar's blushing virgin status.

Alternatively, Merrill and Fenris are both non-'promiscuous.'

Edit: wait, ****** is a swear word?

No seriously, why is my sexuality an obscenity?

It doesn't have to be just LIs Aveline is an example. I'm brining the sexuality thing up because of recently playing the games again and having to resort to using Equal Love mod so I could romance Alistair so it didn't feel like I was romancing a stereotype. It seems to be worse for men then it does for women in this particular series but with Inquisition coming out not 'that' far away I want to put this out there so were can finally get a game in this series that doesn't use the 'all gays are promiscuous' trope.



#12
Spirit Keeper

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It would be nice if they retroactively made it possible in the Keep to have same-sex relationships with Alistair or Morrigan, since they know now how popular the options would have been, had they really existed.

 

But I'm not holding my breath.

Agree

 

Also agree. heh



#13
Guest_JujuSamedi_*

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The issue here is the use of a mod. The keep will probably only recognize bioware generated content.

It makes their problem domain much smaller
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#14
Spirit Keeper

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The issue here is the use of a mod. The keep will probably only recognize bioware generated content.

It makes their problem domain much smaller

Yeah, I get that. I think maybe I should edit my original post, while changing the keep is one thing. I have seen tweets from however long ago that they are still working on trying to implement a save import system though idk if they have give up on that route now.



#15
Mes

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I wouldn't mind having someone like Alistair (in terms of sexual history) but just happens to be gay or bi. There was Kaidan in the mass effect series but that was a different team, Steve Cortez in any other situation would be fine but it just kind of adds to that 'if you aren't straight then you must have sex', it isn't casual or anything but it doesn't help in this situation (plus being in ME3 only and not even a companion AND just getting over suicidal thoughts after his husbands death...yeah, not very magical lol).

 

Yeah I agree, I think it'd be nice to see a virgin character like Alistair but gay. I also appreciated that he didn't talk your ear off about some past love interest, like pretty much every ME male LI did. UGH.  :rolleyes:

 

Steve's romance apparently is quite nice, but yeah I was really put off from going down that path with him. 



#16
Spirit Keeper

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Yeah I agree, I think it'd be nice to see a virgin character like Alistair but gay. I also appreciated that he didn't talk your ear off about some past love interest, like pretty much every ME male LI did. UGH.  :rolleyes:

 

Steve's romance apparently is quite nice, but yeah I was really put off from going down that path with him. 

With Steve, trying to romance him always felt more like I was taking advantage, guy is just getting over the loss of his husband and here I am! Captain Shepard! inserting myself into his life hahahaha.

 

Having a romance like Alistair who is gay or bi isn't 'necessary' but it would certainly be refreshing and would at least be a step in getting rid of the stereotype. 


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#17
Mockingword

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With Steve, trying to romance him always felt more like I was taking advantage, guy is just getting over the loss of his husband and here I am! Captain Shepard! inserting myself into his life hahahaha.

 

Having a romance like Alistair who is gay or bi isn't 'necessary' but it would certainly be refreshing and would at least be a step in getting rid of the stereotype. 

I couldn't romance Steve, because I knew ahead of time that I was gonna go for the 'synthesis' ending, and I didn't want the guy to have another partner die right when he was getting over his husband.



#18
Vapaa

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They won't acknowledge your modded playthrough and no, they're not obligated to.


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#19
Wulfram

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I expect someone'll eventually work out a way to hack in romance flags with a save game editor or something.



#20
wolfsite

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Ya, the characters are written the way they are so the keep won't recognize 3rd party mod changes.

 

I'm perfectly fine with homosexual and bisexual characters, however when people start coming stating that "Character" should be made homosexual or bisexual that does give the feeling that straight people are not welcome.



#21
lane

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i agree totally with this !! and even more !! for me , am tired of seeing always no-playable-character always beign straight !! its always my wife here my hunsband there !! never encountering a gay couple , a gay matter or such ,which gave me the feeling that am the only gay couple with my lover in DA world !!? why? why not make some gay quests here and there or just random characters with gay issues and stuff ,it can be funny or serious i don't really care but there should be others if the characters you can romance can fall for you either your male or female ! (after all homosexual love was known to be more common and popular in medieval and ancient times !)
and another thing i would just LOVE to see , is an only gay character from nature ! i mean all the people are already bi ,so why not put one special man and girl who would come up to you like attracted to the same sex only ! it could be so thrilling and much interesting also funny to have such character in your party !! ( i for sure gonna go for him haha) !!



#22
Mr.House

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i agree totally with this !! and even more !! for me , am tired of seeing always no-playable-character always beign straight !! its always my wife here my hunsband there !! never encountering a gay couple , a gay matter or such ,which gave me the feeling that am the only gay couple with my lover in DA world !!? why? why not make some gay quests here and there or just random characters with gay issues and stuff ,it can be funny or serious i don't really care but there should be others if the characters you can romance can fall for you either your male or female ! (after all homosexual love was known to be more common and popular in medieval and ancient times !)
and another thing i would just LOVE to see , is an only gay character from nature ! i mean all the people are already bi ,so why not put one special man and girl who would come up to you like attracted to the same sex only ! it could be so thrilling and much interesting also funny to have such character in your party !! ( i for sure gonna go for him haha) !!

What the...



#23
Mr.House

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Also Seb was worse then Isabela before he became chaste so ya the whole "all straight people don't have casual sex" is bullocks.



#24
Rusty Sandusky

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House. Grammar. Git Gud
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#25
Mr.House

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House. Grammar. Git Gud

Silence Rusty.