121 réponses à ce sujet

[BurningBlood]

If it matters, I mostly play paragon.  In fact, I think that's why I sympathize with Javik, though I disagree with him about many things.  I like all my squadmates, in all three games; and though some are definitely harder to like than others, eventually I'm able to figure out more or less where they're coming from and feel compassion for their losses and failures and joy for their successes.

 

It's been discussed on this forum what Shepard's rank means, and the best answer I saw in that discussion was that "Commander" isn't really his rank anymore - it's Shep's title, his mantle, his anointing if you will.  Shepard commands the war against the Reapers.  Hackett may be leading the fleets, but Shep is leading the war.  Now Imagine for a moment that Shepard fails utterly, even more than in the "refuse" ending.  Normandy destroyed, crew and squad all indoctrinated and killed, alliances fractured, the reaper victory assured.  Shepard finds a functioning stasis pod and decides to wait until the next cycle and try again, to give the future species a head start with his experience, knowledge and leadership.  

 

He is awakened by Commander Yahg, who has successfully forged an alliance with the Pyjak and Raloi fleets and is building the Crucible.  Yahg invites Shep to join the crew and help in the effort, but it's clear that Yahg is in charge of things, and while Shep's battle prowess is a welcome addition, it's also obvious that he's not really needed for anything.  The ship, the crew, the food, the beliefs and attitudes of the people, even the architecture of once-familiar planets are now utterly alien.  Indeed, the only familiar sights are the mass relays and the Reapers themselves.

 

All of this only reinforces how completely Shepard failed in the previous cycle.  He's not even the Commander anymore; that role has been taken, and Commander Yahg seems to be doing a better job of it too.  Shepard is now, at best, a relic with combat skills; at worst, a living cautionary tale.  Remember that since I'm drawing this as a parallel to Javik, this Shepard had a more renegade personality to begin with.  Defeated, supplanted, what does he have left?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It's not really fair to compare the two. Javik was born well into the war with the relay system down. His job wasn't to lead the war effort, it was to live long enough and kill as many Reapers as possible, then to lead what remained into the next cycle. 

[SporkFu]

If it matters, I mostly play paragon.  In fact, I think that's why I sympathize with Javik, though I disagree with him about many things.  I like all my squadmates, in all three games; and though some are definitely harder to like than others, eventually I'm able to figure out more or less where they're coming from and feel compassion for their losses and failures and joy for their successes.

 

It's been discussed on this forum what Shepard's rank means, and the best answer I saw in that discussion was that "Commander" isn't really his rank anymore - it's Shep's title, his mantle, his anointing if you will.  Shepard commands the war against the Reapers.  Hackett may be leading the fleets, but Shep is leading the war.  Now Imagine for a moment that Shepard fails utterly, even more than in the "refuse" ending.  Normandy destroyed, crew and squad all indoctrinated and killed, alliances fractured, the reaper victory assured.  Shepard finds a functioning stasis pod and decides to wait until the next cycle and try again, to give the future species a head start with his experience, knowledge and leadership.  

 

He is awakened by Commander Yahg, who has successfully forged an alliance with the Pyjak and Raloi fleets and is building the Crucible.  Yahg invites Shep to join the crew and help in the effort, but it's clear that Yahg is in charge of things, and while Shep's battle prowess is a welcome addition, it's also obvious that he's not really needed for anything.  The ship, the crew, the food, the beliefs and attitudes of the people, even the architecture of once-familiar planets are now utterly alien.  Indeed, the only familiar sights are the mass relays and the Reapers themselves.

 

All of this only reinforces how completely Shepard failed in the previous cycle.  He's not even the Commander anymore; that role has been taken, and Commander Yahg seems to be doing a better job of it too.  Shepard is now, at best, a relic with combat skills; at worst, a living cautionary tale.  Remember that since I'm drawing this as a parallel to Javik, this Shepard had a more renegade personality to begin with.  Defeated, supplanted, what does he have left?

Pyjak fleets? Wrex will be rolling over in his grave.

[KaiserShep]

It's not really fair to compare the two. Javik was born well into the war with the relay system down. His job wasn't to lead the war effort, it was to live long enough and kill as many Reapers as possible, then to lead what remained into the next cycle. 

 

In a way, they are somewhat comparable. Javik's mission was to lead a viable population that would reestablish the protheans as the dominant power in the galaxy, and to lead the next cycle against the reapers. Because of indoctrinated agents, that plan failed miserably, and all of the people that were supposed to be resurrected with him didn't make it, leaving him by himself. If the automated system wasn't damaged, the protheans would have been back in action before Shepard's story even began.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

In a way, they are somewhat comparable. Javik's mission was to lead a viable population that would reestablish the protheans as the dominant power in the galaxy, and to lead the next cycle against the reapers. Because of indoctrinated agents, that plan failed miserably, and all of the people that were supposed to be resurrected with him didn't make it, leaving him by himself. If the automated system wasn't damaged, the protheans would have been back in action before Shepard's story even began.

And then the Reapers get annihilated as soon as they come out of dark space. 
 

[KaiserShep]

Heh, would've been nice.

[metalfenix]

snip

I'd love to see the reapers trying to take by brute force the Yahg's homeworld.

 

But I want my commander Shepard Yahg NAO!! Bioware, make it happen.

[Ieldra]

The Echo Shard:

 

I would always want to remember the past, but the story appears to say that to remember means to be bound by it, a philosophy I don't agree with. So I'm always having trouble with this decision. My main Shepard told Javik to look into the Shard, which appears oddly fitting since he chose Synthesis. Javik probably wouldn't like post-Synthesis civilization.

[KaiserShep]

In Javik's place, I would probably want to, but beyond the metagaming aspect of wanting to have as much content delivered to me, if someone expresses that they'd rather forget, I prefer to leave them at that.

[Han Shot First]

I always have Javik interact with the Echo Shard. Otherwise you miss one of the better scenes in the series, and some of Javik's best dialogue. Also Javik taking his own life over the graves of his men seems like a more appropriate end for his character arc. If Mass Effect was a book or a film series instead of game, that would be a more likely end for him than writing a book with Liara or settling down on Khaje.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I always have Javik interact with the Echo Shard. Otherwise you miss one of the better scenes in the series, and some of Javik's best dialogue. Also Javik taking his own life over the graves of his men seems like a more appropriate end for his character arc. If Mass Effect was a book or a film series instead of game, that would be a more likely end for him than writing a book with Liara or settling down on Khaje.

 

Actually the way he'd prefer to end his life would be to go up that beam and be the hero avenging his people. Shepard would still be the protagonist of the story. Javik would have been a required squadmate on the beam run. Shepard would have been injured and required the pickup. Javik would have finished it. Javik dies after destroying the reapers. But not heroic enough for a video game.

[themikefest]

Actually the way he'd prefer to end his life would be to go up that beam and be the hero avenging his people. Shepard would still be the protagonist of the story. Javik would have been a required squadmate on the beam run. Shepard would have been injured and required the pickup. Javik would have finished it. Javik dies after destroying the reapers. But not heroic enough for a video game.

I had a similiar thought like that at one time.

 

Would have it where Javik is required and as you run to the beam Joker fires at Harbinger to distract him letting Shepard and squad go up the beam. They encounter Cerberus troopers. One of the squadmates tells Shepard to go open the arms while they hold off the enemy. Just as Shepard is about to shoot Anderson one of the squadmates shoots TIM.

 

All 4 take the magic carpet ride up. After listening to the Leviathan turd explain the choices, Javik tells Shepard he will destroy them and for the others to leave. A shuttle picks up Shepard, Anderson and squadmate and as the ramp to the Normandy closes, a red light can be seen coming from the Citadel.

[Bob from Accounting]

Actually the way he'd prefer to end his life would be to go up that beam and be the hero avenging his people. Shepard would still be the protagonist of the story. Javik would have been a required squadmate on the beam run. Shepard would have been injured and required the pickup. Javik would have finished it. Javik dies after destroying the reapers. But not heroic enough for a video game.

 

That would have been incredibly terrible.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

HEROISM!

[Han Shot First]

Actually the way he'd prefer to end his life would be to go up that beam and be the hero avenging his people. Shepard would still be the protagonist of the story. Javik would have been a required squadmate on the beam run. Shepard would have been injured and required the pickup. Javik would have finished it. Javik dies after destroying the reapers. But not heroic enough for a video game.

 

It might have been interesting if the game had ended similarly to DA:O (without the ritual off course) where the player has to choose who gets to strike the final blow, with the knowledge that whomever strikes that below isn't going to make it. Javik obviously would be a strong candidate, and would probably have volunteered for it.

[Steelcan]

David can't stand the idea of God-tier Javik being more important than his precious blueberry

[Mcfly616]

David can't stand the idea of God-tier Javik being more important than his precious blueberry

Or....



it just would've been incredibly terrible, as he said.

[themikefest]

That would have been incredibly terrible.

 These are only ideas that folks have. And has I've posted before, there are a lot of ideas I've read that I liked.

 

How about you put forth your idea's so we can discuss them?

[ImaginaryMatter]

It might have been interesting if the game had ended similarly to DA:O (without the ritual off course) where the player has to choose who gets to strike the final blow, with the knowledge that whomever strikes that below isn't going to make it. Javik obviously would be a strong candidate, and would probably have volunteered for it.

 

He is also the Prothean Avatar of Vengeance, it would be nice for him to deliver revenge against his enemies personally, not get a medical evac for a slight flesh wound.

[Han Shot First]

Javik: I am the living embodiment of vengeance, and I will not rest until the last Reaper has been destroyed. Those abominations will pay for what they have done!

 

Shepard: Yes, they will. Wait...what's the hold up?

 

Javik: Ow. I think I stubbed my toe. See ya later Shep, got a medevac to catch. *waves*

[Bob from Accounting]

It's wise to avoid a scenario where the player's least liked squadmate is the one in the limelight at the climax of the story - the most important moment.

 

It's thematically inappropriate.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It's wise to avoid a scenario where the player's least liked squadmate is the one in the limelight at the climax of the story - the most important moment.

 

It's thematically inappropriate.

 

That was the writer's fault. They didn't make a compelling character when the character should have been compelling. He was a nice addition, but so much more could have been done with him. The story was pretty badly written as a whole. 

 

If they made him likable by dropping the running primitives joke, and had him call the squadmates by name instead of race it would have gone a long way to helping that.

[SwobyJ]

It's weird when I think that both 'sides' (David vs. Everyone) has it right in their own ways.

 

The evac scene doesn't make sense. And that may be okay...

 

EDIT: Now I feel dirty for side-complimenting him. Yay.

[themikefest]

I'm really struggling to deal with the incompetence of your posts, Julia. What are you doing here, wasting my time and your time? You're not up to this. Not at all.

 

Let me explain a few simple things to you.

 

 

 

If your time is being wasted, then I suggest you leave and not let the door hit you on the backside.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Actually, it would be very interesting to have EDI and Javik up with you. 

Or any squad mates whatsoever up there.