64 réponses à ce sujet

[Killdren88]

After some time and some rearranging of thought I felt I could post this again with a clearer mind. And the new Forum format provided me with such a right time. So anyway on with the improved idea.

 

Merely a note, but this idea assumes you choose the destroy option and as well you deemed it unfair that the Geth and EDI shared the Reaper's fate.

 

As we know. The Crucible is designed to target all synthetic life and destroy them indiscriminately. With this in consideration, we know the Crucible also has the war asset of Interferometric Array which gives us a real time location of the location of every Reaper in the Galaxy, thus giving us an accurate targeting reticule.

 

Now the idea. What we know in Mass Effect 2, we were sent to a dead Reaper so that we may collect it's IFF which then would identify us as a Reaper to the Omega 4 relay. The Omega-4 relay is designed so that only Reaper identified entities would be allowed to pass through. So with this in mind, by utilizing the device on the Omea-4  relay and implementing it on the Crucible, and with the assistance of the Interferometric Array, it can be argued with these two together you can target the Reapers alone due to the unique nature of the ever evolving signal of that the Reapers give off with the IFF. The Omega-4 Relay device is able to keep with the Reaper's ever evolving signal so it can still target the Reapers while sparing all other Synthetic life.

 

Since the other relays are also Reaper technology, they should have no problem accepting the Omega-4 device's parameters as they all launch their own individual beams only effecting the Reapers because thanks to the Omega-4 device its only set to respond to things who Share the Reaper Signal.

 

Of course one can still argue that the Geth and EDI would be effected by the Crucible by share the Reaper code, and EDI's own IFF. First off, the Geth can be spared sole based on the fact that they may have Reaper Code, but they don't share the Reaper Signal that identifies them as Reapers.

 

As for EDI who carries the very device that the Crucible targets with this modification can come out of it. As stated in Mass Effect 2, it took EDI some time to fully incorporate the IFF into her system. So in the same allotted time, it can be said that she can simply uninstall the IFF thus rendering safe from the Crucible.

 

And that is the idea.

 

[JasonShepard]

Personally, I have a two-fold explanation:

 

1) The Destroy-Wave has a number of similarities to an EMP. It expands radially and affects everything synthetic, including AIs. The main differences are that it's red and it's FTL, neither or which make much physical sense no matter how I try to wrap my head around them.

But an EMP bomb can't be targeted; it affects everything in its range. (An EMP laser can be targeted, but the Crucible doesn't appear to have been designed that way.)  It therefore doesn't matter if it has the interferometric Array. So assuming that Destroy is similar to an EMP bomb (but not  the same), I'd expect AIs to be affected. Since an EMP at least wipes the software (if it doesn't fry the circuit boards!), a logical extension is that AIs wouldn't just be affected, they'd be wiped out.

 

2) Destroy has to wipe out all synthetic life for it to be a viable solution to the Catalyst's problem. If organics have something akin to the Crucible, they will never be vulnerable to synthetics, since any synthetics can be instantly wiped out by another Destroy wave. The Crucible's origins are fairly mysterious, but given the inclusion of Synthesis, it does appear to have been designed with the Catalyst's problem in mind.

[AlanC9]

I'm not quite sure what the point is here. In some alternate universe the Crucible might have worked this way, but what of it?

[Excella Gionne]

It's SPACE MAGIC! The energy emitted from the crucible has always been mysterious and unexplained. If Destroy energy aka Red Energy was an EMP, then all ships hit by it would be dead and nonfunctional. EMP disables and scrambles electronics. Anything electronic that is hit by EMP is fried. Clearly, you can tell Destroy isn't EMP but more of an energy that only targets certain things but it does discriminate or judge the particular target's motives, it will simply do what it was created to do, Destroy!

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It would make some sense if it just annihilated Reaper code. A galactic delete button. 

Then EDI's death would make sense. The Geth... still no. They would revert back to their hive mind, which they never should've left. Why we had to let them upload for them to survive beats me. 

Seriously, how in the hell would the wave be able to discern Geth runtimes from Nerve-Stim Pro? 

It's SPACE MAGIC! The energy emitted from the crucible has always been mysterious and unexplained. If Destroy energy aka Red Energy was an EMP, then all ships hit by it would be dead and nonfunctional. EMP disables and scrambles electronics. Anything electronic that is hit by EMP is fried. Clearly, you can tell Destroy isn't EMP but more of an energy that only targets certain things but it does discriminate or judge the particular target's motives, it will simply do what it was created to do, Destroy!

EMPs do not work like that. This isn't COD. Even so, almost all important military equipment is shielded and you can be sure that any space ship would be too. 

[Mcfly616]

it's because it targets Reaper code. Who makes up the synthetic population of the MEU? Geth. EDI. Reapers. What do they all have in common? Reaper code.

[DarkestDeceit]

It would make some sense if it just annihilated Reaper code. A galactic delete button. 

Then EDI's death would make sense. The Geth... still no. They would revert back to their hive mind, which they never should've left. Why we had to let them upload for them to survive beats me. 

Seriously, how in the hell would the wave be able to discern Geth runtimes from Nerve-Stim Pro? 

EMPs do not work like that. This isn't COD. Even so, almost all important military equipment is shielded and you can be sure that any space ship would be too. 

EMP like everything has different strengths, an emp blast on a galactic level would probably be too powerful to shield against anyway and really the Reapers themselves are liable to be hardened to emp as that would have been too obvious a weakness to hit an AI with.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

EMP like everything has different strengths, an emp blast on a galactic level would probably be too powerful to shield against anyway and really the Reapers themselves are liable to be hardened to emp as that would have been too obvious a weakness to hit an AI with.

No, no, no. Have you ever heard of a Faraday Cage? Negates ANY EMP. Can be made with aluminum foil. 

 

 

 

it's because it targets Reaper code. Who makes up the synthetic population of the MEU? Geth. EDI. Reapers. What do they all have in common? Reaper code.

And, of course, the Geth having it was forced on us. It still wouldn't kill the Geth if it got deleted. It got deleted before and they survived. 

[Mcfly616]

 

And, of course, the Geth having it was forced on us. It still wouldn't kill the Geth if it got deleted. It got deleted before and they survived.

not sure why people say it was "forced". It was part of the story and it made sense. People just seem bitter about the consequences. You presume that the Crucibles energy seeking out and eradicating Reaper code without prejudice, is the same thing as merely deleting a computer code in today's modern real world terms.....that's quite the assumption.

And no, they did not have it deleted once before and survived. The choice in ME2 was to destroy the Geth heretics or "rewrite" them.

[JasonShepard]

it's because it targets Reaper code. Who makes up the synthetic population of the MEU? Geth. EDI. Reapers. What do they all have in common? Reaper code.

 

"All synthetics will be targeted." Not 'any synthetics with Reaper code', "All".

 

Also, as I've said before, the Crucible targeting code is akin to a fire only burning books with specific words written in them. Like a fire burning every Twilight book in a library, but leaving everything else untouched.

 

For the Crucible to target Reaper code, it would have to read the software on every synthetic platform in the galaxy, regardless of language or hardware, and then only damage those that match up. That's a ridiculous level of discrimination. I find it easier to believe that the Crucible simply isn't discriminating at all (which, co-incidentally, is exactly what the Catalyst says about the Crucible).

[Mcfly616]

"All synthetics will be targeted." Not 'any synthetics with Reaper code', "All".

Also, as I've said before, the Crucible targeting code is akin to a fire only burning books with specific words written in them. Like a fire burning every Twilight book in a library, but leaving everything else untouched.

For the Crucible to target Reaper code, it would have to read the software on every synthetic platform in the galaxy, regardless of language or hardware, and then only damage those that match up. That's a ridiculous level of discrimination. I find it easier to believe that the Crucible simply isn't discriminating at all (which, co-incidentally, is exactly what the Catalyst says about the Crucible).

you assume to know who the Catalyst is specifically referring to in all it's vague assertions. You must be clairvoyant.


Besides, as I said the Geth ARE the synthetic population. And they all have Reaper Tech incorporated into them. How would you know what the Crucible would have to do in order to target Reaper code, when we've just established that you have no way of knowing if Reaper code is in any way similar to any other code.... Nor do you or anybody else in the entire galaxy know how exactly the Crucibles processes work. Reaper tech has always been mysterious and complicated within the MEU.


All you're doing is making definitive statements based on nothing more than assumptions.

[Killdren88]

I think you may have some things slightly mixed. The idea is that the modifications target the Signal the Reapers gives off via the reaper IFF. That was the purpose of the Device on the Omega-4 Relay. The same is just applied here. The device on the Relay applied to the. Crucible thus the Cruicible only hones in on the IFF signal.

[JasonShepard]

you assume to know who the Catalyst is specifically referring to in all it's vague assertions. You must be clairvoyant.


Besides, as I said the Geth ARE the synthetic population. And they all have Reaper Tech incorporated into them. How would you know what the Crucible would have to do in order to target Reaper code, when we've just established that you have no way of knowing if Reaper code is in any way similar to any other code.... Nor do you or anybody else in the entire galaxy know how exactly the Crucibles processes work. Reaper tech has always been mysterious and complicated within the MEU.


All you're doing is making definitive statements based on nothing more than assumptions.

 

 

No, I'm working from the definition of code: ie that code is software. If you want to call "Reaper code is a type of code" an assumption, then by all means do, but I'm probably going to give up on this conversation if you do so.

 

In order to target the code, the Crucible would need to know where it was. In order to find the code, the Crucible would need to read it. In order to find all Reaper code, the Crucible would need to read every single hardware platform in the galaxy - regardless of design, programming language or location. I don't really see any major assumptions in that chain of logic. And the conclusion - that the Crucible can read every single hardware platform in the galaxy - is a stretch too far for me.

 

...Then again, the Crucible can apparently modify every organic in the galaxy on a molecular level (Synthesis)... So I suppose there's precedent, even if I don't like it...

[Excella Gionne]

It would make some sense if it just annihilated Reaper code. A galactic delete button. 

Then EDI's death would make sense. The Geth... still no. They would revert back to their hive mind, which they never should've left. Why we had to let them upload for them to survive beats me. 

Seriously, how in the hell would the wave be able to discern Geth runtimes from Nerve-Stim Pro? 

EMPs do not work like that. This isn't COD. Even so, almost all important military equipment is shielded and you can be sure that any space ship would be too. 

I don't play COD, so I wouldn't know what you're referencing towards....

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

not sure why people say it was "forced". It was part of the story and it made sense. People just seem bitter about the consequences. You presume that the Crucibles energy seeking out and eradicating Reaper code without prejudice, is the same thing as merely deleting a computer code in today's modern real world terms.....that's quite the assumption.

And no, they did not have it deleted once before and survived. The choice in ME2 was to destroy the Geth heretics or "rewrite" them.

Why couldn't we stop the upload and stop the Quarians from attacking? 

 

If if can't differentiate between Reaper code and 'synthetic' code, then how can it differntiate between 'synthetic code' and minesweeper? 

The ending is a pile of garbage no matter how you look at it.

[CronoDragoon]

If if can't differentiate between Reaper code and 'synthetic' code, then how can it differntiate between 'synthetic code' and minesweeper?

 

I'm not sure why people believe Destroy works by targeting Reaper code. There's more evidence to support the view that whoever built the Crucible simply built it to destroy all synthetics. Perhaps in a cycle where the Reapers had overtaken the AI races and used them against the organics.

 

Also, the Catalyst mentions Shepard will be affected, and Shepard doesn't have Reaper code.

 

Edit: Any way you shape it, Destroy affecting Shepard confuses everything. If Destroy works by targeting Reaper code, why would he be affected. If it works by targeting synthetics...why would he be affected? He has synthetic implants but isn't synthetic. Plenty of others have synthetic implacts (including, unless I'm mistaken, all quarians) but they are shown as being fine.

 

The contrived nature of the Crucible's functions is best left (un)explained as mystical BS.

[DeinonSlayer]

I'm not sure why people believe Destroy works by targeting Reaper code. There's more evidence to support the view that whoever built the Crucible simply built it to destroy all synthetics. Perhaps in a cycle where the Reapers had overtaken the AI races and used them against the organics.
 
Also, the Catalyst mentions Shepard will be affected, and Shepard doesn't have Reaper code.
 
Edit: Any way you shape it, Destroy affecting Shepard confuses everything. If Destroy works by targeting Reaper code, why would he be affected. If it works by targeting synthetics...why would he be affected? He has synthetic implants but isn't synthetic. Plenty of others have synthetic implacts (including, unless I'm mistaken, all quarians) but they are shown as being fine.
 
The contrived nature of the Crucible's functions is best left (un)explained as mystical BS.

Might as well build a device that targets any object whose name starts with the letter 'B'.

[Steelcan]

The Crucible does discriminate though, I doubt the ships would be flying, as we see, if all synthetic technology was thrown back to the Pre-Cambrian

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Might as well build a device that targets any object whose name starts with the letter 'B'.

"And today's attempted genocide and destruction is brought to you be the letter 'B'..... this hurts you."

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

But seriously, how in hell would it be able to know what constitutes a "synthetic." The Geth were, for most if not all of their existence just a conglomerate of computer programs that were interconnected. Basically the internet. 

[Steelcan]

But seriously, how in hell would it be able to know what constitutes a "synthetic." The Geth were, for most if not all of their existence just a conglomerate of computer programs that were interconnected. Basically the internet. 

 

[DeinonSlayer]

But seriously, how in hell would it be able to know what constitutes a "synthetic." The Geth were, for most if not all of their existence just a conglomerate of computer programs that were interconnected. Basically the internet.

Shepard clearly should have uploaded the Irene Demova virus into the Catalyst.

[Steelcan]

Shepard clearly should have uploaded the Irene Demova virus into the Catalyst.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I see Destroy as an AI "reset" pulse. Save for those two Reapers in Earth's orbit (and the Crucible's immediate radius), they kind of just topple over when hit by the red wave. I do not think it's hardware destruction of any type, just total mental wipe-out.

 

Kinda like going back to factory defaults, affected machines remain functional.

[DeinonSlayer]

@Steelcan
Yes, dammit, you got me hooked on that show!

...and there absolutely should have been some interaction between Reegar and Miranda.