50 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

The first three books are great, fantastic even(Revelation for sure), but skip Deception entirely unless you want a brain aneurysm.

[LPPrince]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that anyone who wasn't pissed off by ME3, obviously doesn't care about it. Which would be quite arrogant and dismissive towards those who enjoyed it and care about it.

 

Oh, I wouldn't be so silly as to say people who enjoyed ME3 didn't care about it. Of course they did, different opinions are a beautiful thing.

[XXIceColdXX]

Here's the link to the google doc, listing all the errors made in Deception

https://docs.google....i=1&viewopt=127

[Remix-General Aetius]

the parody comic is more accurate than the original. a true testament to how crap that writer is.

[Soul8lighter]

The only book store I go to is the closest B&N and they don't even stock Deception anymore. I'm curious to know if most book stores even have it on shelves anymore.  

[gw2005]

Pointless, really. From the end of the previous book (I think retribution) and the end of ME2, the only thing that hasn't changed about the story is the name of the brand. Dew's idea for the story arch was dark energy entropy death of the universe. As was alluded to in both ME1 and 2. That got completely scraped in ME3. There's just no easy way to bridge the gap from there to here. You can easily fit two or three books in the plot twist ( :ph34r:What a Twist ) to try and plug it.

 

Mass Effect: Deception
     --- you've been deceived

[BioWareM0d13]

The only book store I go to is the closest B&N and they don't even stock Deception anymore. I'm curious to know if most book stores even have it on shelves anymore.  

 

I saw it fairly recently at a book store. I've never had a problem finding the Mass Effect books, it's the Dragon Age books that I never see no matter which book store I go into. I'd have to order them, which is probably why I've yet to read any of the Dragon Age books. I usually end up buying books while browsing through the store rather than being a planned thing where I have a certain title in mind.

[L. Han]

Here's the link to the google doc, listing all the errors made in Deception

https://docs.google....i=1&viewopt=127

 

Holy hell, that sure is a bloody mess. 

 

Is this REALLY true? I guess I have to get it (or borrow it) and see it for myself. It really can't be this bad, I am starting to think this is done deliberately.

[Drone223]

Pointless, really. From the end of the previous book (I think retribution) and the end of ME2, the only thing that hasn't changed about the story is the name of the brand. Dew's idea for the story arch was dark energy entropy death of the universe. As was alluded to in both ME1 and 2. That got completely scraped in ME3. There's just no easy way to bridge the gap from there to here. You can easily fit two or three books in the plot twist ( :ph34r:What a Twist ) to try and plug it.

Mass Effect: Deception
--- you've been deceived

Well if Drew was building the dark energy plot, then he did a terrible build up. There was no mention of dark in ME1 outside the codex and only 3-4 mentions of it in ME2 and most of them happening in optimal missions soot much of a build up really.

As for the rewrite since Decption has a bad reputation with its errors, Bioware most likely see's it as a lost cause and would make little profit from a rewrite.

Modifié par Drone223, 13 avril 2014 - 07:43 .

[The Love Runner]

Holy hell, that sure is a bloody mess. 
 
Is this REALLY true? I guess I have to get it (or borrow it) and see it for myself. It really can't be this bad, I am starting to think this is done deliberately.

Yes, it was THAT bad. It was one of the rare moments in which BSN was united as a whole. I still read though this thread every now and then for the lulz: http://forum.bioware...tion discussion

[XXIceColdXX]

Holy hell, that sure is a bloody mess.

Is this REALLY true? I guess I have to get it (or borrow it) and see it for myself. It really can't be this bad, I am starting to think this is done deliberately.

Was pretty bad, the author Dietz clearly didn't do his homework.

The novel somehow was still printed after a final review by Casey Hudson. Here is the 'Marshall Erikson' Seal of Approval

"Finished my final review of the #MassEffect Deception novel. A really fun lead-in to #ME3! Kai Leng is a badass. January 31 release."
https://twitter.com/...362747836604417

After seeing this novel slip slip through the cracks, with Bioware's stamp of approval, I started to worry about how seriously they took their own IP's Lore.

[The Bad One]

In this case, I think I will speak for the majority. The book's load of ridiculous inaccuracies had everyone pissed, but then the last game came out, pissed off people even more so, and focus changed. We got an Extended Cut, not a book revision. Can't deny that.

 

"The majority".

Who was that again?

[1483749283]

The factual errors of Mass Effect: Deception are insignificant in comparison to the wanton destruction---both literally and figuratively---of nearly all the major characters of creator Karpyshyn's novels. The development of Gillian as an important and sympathetic character with potential tie-in to the simulations was aborted with a violent termination that had many dimensions of caricature.

 

Coupled with the departure of creator Karpyshyn and the rumored lack of peer-review in the  ME3 final ending drafting process, coupled with the fact that creators Zeschuk and Muzyka departed to create alcoholic bevarages and do works of public benefit, respectively---our best-fit model contains components of "burnout," "power grab," and "hubris." We only have a small understanding of these concepts, but are able to model them.

 

(One should not overestimate creator Karpyshyn's contributions, since we model those as containing elements of 'unnecessarily grotesque')

 

One should nevertheless reflect upon the fact that despite the many internal and external shortcomings, Mass Effect is nevertheless leaps and bounds a more scientifically well thought-out and---to 21st century organics---compelling and inspiring vision of the far future of space exploration than any other previously attempted simulation.

[Drone223]

The factual errors of Mass Effect: Deception are insignificant in comparison to the wanton destruction---both literally and figuratively---of nearly all the major characters of creator Karpyshyn's novels. The development of Gillian as an important and sympathetic character with potential tie-in to the simulations was aborted with a violent termination that had many dimensions of caricature.

 

Coupled with the departure of creator Karpyshyn and the rumored lack of peer-review in the  ME3 final ending drafting process, coupled with the fact that creators Zeschuk and Muzyka departed to create alcoholic bevarages and do works of public benefit, respectively---our best-fit model contains components of "burnout," "power grab," and "hubris." We only have a small understanding of these concepts, but are able to model them.

 

(One should not overestimate creator Karpyshyn's contributions, since we model those as containing elements of 'unnecessarily grotesque')

 

One should nevertheless reflect upon the fact that despite the many internal and external shortcomings, Mass Effect is nevertheless leaps and bounds a more scientifically well thought-out and---to 21st century organics---compelling and inspiring vision of the far future of space exploration than any other previously attempted simulation.

I think people give DK too much credit for the ME series, there were a lot people who made the series possible. Also ME isn't really a "hard sci-fi" since that are good number of things that require suspension of disbelief (lazarus project (LP is just bad writing really), asari mind-melding, mass relay's, thorian, biotics and prothean touch sensory).     

[BioWareM0d13]

I agree that Drew K. is a bit overrated. One of the largest plot holes of the series occurred during his watch, and the proposed Dark Energy plot would have provided even worse endings than those that actually shipped with the game. Also he was still one of the leads when it was revealed that the Reapers were focusing on humanity for our supposed great genetic diversity. That one was a riot, considering humanity is one of the least genetically diverse species on our own planet. And finally character dialogue has never been one of his strengths, both in the series and in the books.

[Sion1138]

One should nevertheless reflect upon the fact that despite the many internal and external shortcomings, Mass Effect is nevertheless leaps and bounds a more scientifically well thought-out and---to 21st century organics---compelling and inspiring vision of the far future of space exploration than any other previously attempted simulation.

 

I wouldn't call it inspiring, compelling perhaps but not inspiring since it merely paints the current state of affairs in human society on a larger canvas, with spaceships.

 

In fact, most popular science fiction is not meant to provide visions of the future, but rather to examine our own present day in a whimsical manner.

 

It's dramatic fiction for nerdy people.

[Sion1138]

I agree that Drew K. is a bit overrated. One of the largest plot holes of the series occurred during his watch, and the proposed Dark Energy plot would have provided even worse endings than those that actually shipped with the game. Also he was still one of the leads when it was revealed that the Reapers were focusing on humanity for our supposed great genetic diversity. That one was a riot, considering humanity is one of the least genetically diverse species on our own planet. And finally character dialogue has never been one of his strengths, both in the series and in the books.

 

Why do you assume it would have been worse? Were there any at all concrete proposals for such an ending, and if so what were they?

[Sion1138]

 

Here ya go: http://imgur.com/a/lAVji#0 - This links to page 1. The rest are available there as well.

 

 

Man, that guy Dietz really soiled himself with this one, but he's an old fart so he shouldn't care.

 

This makes me curious to read some of his other works.

[BioWareM0d13]

Why do you assume it would have been worse? Were there any at all concrete proposals for such an ending, and if so what were they?

 

Assuming Drew K's ideas weren't altered much and made it into a final draft, it would have turned the Reapers into misunderstood saviors trying to rescue the universe from an early Mass Effect induced heat death. Siding with the Reapers would have been the ideal ending. Additionally it would have doubled down on the humans-are-special nonsense by making humanity the species best suited to solve this problem.

 

None of that sounds like a particularly good idea to me.

[Drone223]

Assuming Drew K's ideas weren't altered much and made it into a final draft, it would have turned the Reapers into misunderstood saviors trying to rescue the universe from an early Mass Effect induced heat death. Siding with the Reapers would have been the ideal ending. Additionally it would have doubled down on the humans-are-special nonsense by making humanity the species best suited to solve this problem.

 

None of that sounds like a particularly good idea to me.

I'm okay with "Humans are special" also along as there is a good context to it and makes sense (the Halo series gives a good explanation to why "humans are special"), but in the case of ME I agree, human genetic diversity being some how the key to stopping the spread of dark energy is just bad writing. 

Modifié par Drone223, 15 avril 2014 - 08:54 .

[Sion1138]

Assuming Drew K's ideas weren't altered much and made it into a final draft, it would have turned the Reapers into misunderstood saviors trying to rescue the universe from an early Mass Effect induced heat death. Siding with the Reapers would have been the ideal ending. Additionally it would have doubled down on the humans-are-special nonsense by making humanity the species best suited to solve this problem.

 

None of that sounds like a particularly good idea to me.

 

Yeah, it's fairly trite but seriously, didn't we actually get the same exact thing in the end? Only way more convoluted?

 

The Reapers did turn out to be misunderstood saviors, saving "organics" from destruction at the hand of their own creation.

 

Also, Mass Effect 2 already established the stuff about humans being special, it couldn't be undone.

[BioWareM0d13]

Yeah, it's fairly trite but seriously, didn't we actually get the same exact thing in the end? Only way more convoluted?

 

The Reapers did turn out to be misunderstood saviors, saving "organics" from destruction at the hand of their own creation.

 

Also, Mass Effect 2 already established the stuff about humans being special, it couldn't be undone.

 

The original endings, though extremely flawed, are preferable in that they don't give the Reapers an actual problem to solve. The Catalyst might think that it is solving a problem, but is it really? The galaxy's own history hasn't shown synthetics to be more dangerous than other organic species. And to accept the Catalyst's view that synthetics will inevitably destroy organics, and that making everyone partially synthetic will avoid conflict, is also to accept that clairvoyance is a real thing and that the Catalyst possesses it. 

 

The Dark Energy endings however would have provided a problem for the Reapers to solve, that would be more difficult to doubt. The eventual heat death of universe is probably a real thing. 

[Sion1138]

The original endings, though extremely flawed, are preferable in that they don't give the Reapers an actual problem to solve. The Catalyst might think that it is solving a problem, but is it really? The galaxy's own history hasn't shown synthetics to be more dangerous than other organic species. And to accept the Catalyst's view that synthetics will inevitably destroy organics, and that making everyone partially synthetic will avoid conflict, is also to accept that clairvoyance is a real thing and that the Catalyst possesses it. 

 

The Dark Energy endings however would have provided a problem for the Reapers to solve, that would be more difficult to doubt. The eventual heat death of universe is probably a real thing. 

 

You were kind of forced to agree with the Catalyst anyway, by picking one of the solutions it offered. It was either that or you died.

[NM_Che56]

Lost cause is lost.  I gave up after a year.  It'd be nice if the next Mass Effect game somehow cemented the 'non-canon' sentiment by having the characters who died in the book appear as NPCs.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Nope. I skip Deception everytime I want to read all books from ME Series...

 

PS: I think that that was the book that created "Cereal Killer Kai Lang"