118 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

My first play through was back in october / November. i knew nothing about the game really, not even read any reviews. I bought ME1/ME2 because it was £5 on steam.

Played through ME1 and had everyone alive including Wrex (killed off Kaiden). Played through ME2 (only with LotSB DLC) and only lost Grunt on the suicide mission.

Literally straight into ME3 the next day with Citadel, Omega and Leviathan installed. Managed to get peace with the Quarians, Genophage cured and so on.

My other two subsequent playthrough with more DLC (until the final complete playthrough) have been increasing levels of 'perfect' (i.e. side missions done etc). Also means I never experienced the game in its raw 'pre-EC' cut, or without things like Citadel.

 

Part of the problem was that early on in ME1 I saw that renegade / paragon choices dictated what you could / couldn't do and so I made sure I always maxed / minned them as necessary. The other problem was that the game is not actually that difficult when it comes to choices, the red / blue dialogue pretty much flags up the 'IMPORTANT CHOICE!!!!' aspect; otherwise it is fairly obvious what 'the right thing' to do is. I guess this also comes with about 28 years of playing games; you recognise the mechanics.

 

This is why I am quite interested in what the 'default' state of play is for ME3, as I didn't find the tone of ME3 that depressing as everybody was still alive; so more of a case of "Oh, hi Jack! Oh, hi Jacobzzzzzzzz..., I wonder who the next cameo will be?".

 

Great trilogy though.

[CronoDragoon]

This is why I am quite interested in what the 'default' state of play is for ME3, as I didn't find the tone of ME3 that depressing as everybody was still alive; so more of a case of "Oh, hi Jack! Oh, hi Jacobzzzzzzzz..., I wonder who the next cameo will be?".

 

I think part of the depressing feeling is a lot of residue from the original endings without any DLC. Nowadays pretty much the only sticking point for people is needing to kill all synthetics in Destroy. There was a lot more to feel depressed about with the original endings. Lucky for you!

[Mcfly616]

Yeah....more people should've died during ME3, regardless of EMS.

[TheTurtle]

I managed to get everything right in my first playthrough mostly because of dumb luck. In ME2 I did all the loyalty missions and passed all the persuasion checks(renegade). I sent Legion into the vents because I knew someone might die and Legion was my least favorite. I let Miranda run both teams and choose Samara for the bubble. Tgen I destroyed the collextor base just to spite TIM

In ME3 I played a lot of multiplayer before finishing as I had heard it played a part in the end game . So I managed to get the breath scene and had everyone alive at the end of the trilogy.

[Iakus]

 

This is why I am quite interested in what the 'default' state of play is for ME3, as I didn't find the tone of ME3 that depressing as everybody was still alive; so more of a case of "Oh, hi Jack! Oh, hi Jacobzzzzzzzz..., I wonder who the next cameo will be?".

 

Great trilogy though.

 

Default state for ME3:

 

ME1

failShep, where pretty much anyone who can die, does (Wrex dead, Council dead, Kirahe dead, rachni queen dead etc)

VS is opposite gender of Shepard (Ash for maleShep, Kaidan for femShep)

 

ME2:

Thane and Jack dead on Suicide Mission

Chakwas only surviving crew member rescued from Collectors

Grunt's tank never opened

Legion sold to Cerberus.  Peace on Rannoch therefore impossible

Samara never recruited, killed by Morinth

No DLC done (Kasumi and Zaeed never recruited, Project Overlord nuked from orbit by Cerberus, Liara became Shadow Broker by hiring an army of mercenaries, Feron died in the fighting, Hackett sent Alliance marines to rescue Kenson.  No survivors)

No loyalty missions done.  This means Eve and Miranda die in ME3.

 

Pretty grim picture.  Far more appropriate for the endings we got.

[Mordokai]

No DLC done (Kasumi and Zaeed never recruited, Project Overlord nuked from orbit by Cerberus, Liara became Shadow Broker by hiring an army of mercenaries, Feron died in the fighting, Hackett sent Alliance marines to rescue Kenson.  No survivors)

 

Which makes you think, how incompetent the Alliance is if took a platoon of soldiers to accomplish the same thing that Shepard managed to do on her own.

 

Or course, we could just say that Shepard is Mary Sue, but where would the fun in that be.

[von uber]

Pretty grim picture.  Far more appropriate for the endings we got.

 

Actually, yes I think it is. Makes more sense now in a way.

[themikefest]

Actually, yes I think it is. Makes more sense now in a way.

Do a ME3 default playthrough and when you get to the beam run shut your game off and watch the original endings

[Daemul]

 

Pretty grim picture.  Far more appropriate for the endings we got.

Yep, like I said, built around default. 

[Iakus]

Yep, like I said, built around default. 

 

And like I said, punished for investing in the trilogy.

[jtav]

Or not. Miranda is alive. Jack's alive, The genophage is cured. There are going to be ziggaruts on Tuchanka and gleaming cities on Rannoch. All quite impossible without import. I don't care about running away with my LI (and considering that ME is actually on the happy side in BW romances, good thing).

[CronoDragoon]

And like I said, punished for investing in the trilogy.

 

Demonstrably untrue, since importing can lead to better world-states than not importing. I certainly agree that non-imports fit the endings better, but that has nothing to do with inflammatory language such as "punishment."

[Iakus]

Demonstrably untrue, since importing can lead to better world-states than not importing. I certainly agree that non-imports fit the endings better, but that has nothing to do with inflammatory language such as "punishment."

 

And when Shepard stands before the Catalyst and must choose Red, Green or Blue, did any of it matter?

 

I felt that it didn't.

 

Or I suppose paraphrasing Javik would put it better:

 

Stand amongst the ashes of a million dead Shepards and ask if world-states matter.  The rage is your answer.

 

Edit:  If you don't like the term "punishment", how about "thoughtlessness"?  

[AlanC9]

Demonstrably untrue, since importing can lead to better world-states than not importing. I certainly agree that non-imports fit the endings better, but that has nothing to do with inflammatory language such as "punishment."

 

I don't think it's useful to respond to an iakus post this way. The posts are there to express his pain, rather than as actual propositions. Complaining that the argument is "demonstrably untrue" is a category mistake

[Iakus]

I don't think it's useful to respond to an iakus post this way. The posts are there to express his pain, rather than as actual propositions. Complaining that the argument is "demonstrably untrue" is a category mistake

 

Standing right here you know...

[CronoDragoon]

And when Shepard stands before the Catalyst and must choose Red, Green or Blue, did any of it matter?

 

I felt that it didn't.

 

That's like saying your ME2 choices don't matter because they are irrelevant for Collector Base decision.

 

Stand amongst the ashes of a million dead Shepards and ask if world-states matter.  The rage is your answer.

 

I'll ask my alive Shepard instead, one sec. Yeah, he says it matters. Wrex agrees. So does Tali. And...well...pretty much everyone in the galaxy who isn't geth.

[Iakus]

That's like saying your ME2 choices don't matter because they are irrelevant for Collector Base decision.

 

 

Funny you should mention that...

[CronoDragoon]

Funny you should mention that...

 

Okay.

 

That's like saying your ME1 choices are all irrelevant because they don't matter for the Council decision.

[Iakus]

Okay.

 

That's like saying your ME1 choices are all irrelevant because they don't matter for the Council decision.

 

That is true.

 

But in all honesty, at the time I thought they would matter later (including the Council decision). Delayed gratification, as it were.

 

Turns out, nope.  Shepard=Walter White.  There is no escaping The Script.

[CronoDragoon]

But in all honesty, at the time I thought they would matter later (including the Council decision). Delayed gratification, as it were.

 

When has BW ever meaningfully incorporated your previous decisions into the final decision of a game?

 

You either ascend to the Throne of Bhaal or don't.

You either do dark side or light (and can switch at the end regardless of your previous decisions).

You can either sacrifice yourself, do the DR, or let a companion sacrifice himself.

You can either pick Templars or mages.

You can either save the Council or not.

You can either destroy the base or not.

R/G/B.

 

Perhaps BW's mistake was making the EMS thresholds too easy or lax? Wouldn't the Collector Base decision matter if Control or Destroy was eliminated as a choice because of it in all EMS levels? (not saying this would have been a good design decision) If it was extremely difficult to get the highest level of EMS, wouldn't you say collecting all those war assets "mattered"? Yes, you still get war assets no matter what, but you could also do the SM with different combinations of people and it was easily completed, yet people still point to the SM as decisions mattering. Meanwhile ME1 didn't incorporate anything into the battle of the Citadel.

 

I will say that some of the marketing stuff probably led fans in the wrong direction here. Stuff like Mac saying the rachni decision has a huge impact on the ending. However since I read zero marketing prior to playing the game, I feel I have the advantage of analyzing the game itself instead of the words surrounding it. If you know you are already going to buy the game, then listening to marketing has zero positive results, and more than a few negatives. And anyone that has played the previous games and therefore cared about the rachni decision was going to buy it.

 

It's also unfortunate that some of the earlier games' decisions were homogenized for ME3, like Udina always being the Council member. They simply had too many variables after ME1 and ME2 and had to cut some for ME3. Hopefully if they do a trilogy again they plan better and have a good idea which decisions they want to focus on importing.

[Iakus]

When has BW ever meaningfully incorporated your previous decisions into the final decision of a game?

 

You either ascend to the Throne of Bhaal or don't.

You either do dark side or light (and can switch at the end regardless of your previous decisions).

You can either sacrifice yourself, do the DR, or let a companion sacrifice himself.

You can either pick Templars or mages.

You can either save the Council or not.

You can either destroy the base or not.

R/G/B.

 

Perhaps BW's mistake was making the EMS thresholds too easy or lax? Wouldn't the Collector Base decision matter if Control or Destroy was eliminated as a choice because of it in all EMS levels? (not saying this would have been a good design decision) If it was extremely difficult to get the highest level of EMS, wouldn't you say collecting all those war assets "mattered"? Yes, you still get war assets no matter what, but you could also do the SM with different combinations of people and it was easily completed, yet people still point to the SM as decisions mattering. Meanwhile ME1 didn't incorporate anything into the battle of the Citadel.

 

I will say that some of the marketing stuff probably led fans in the wrong direction here. Stuff like Mac saying the rachni decision has a huge impact on the ending. However since I read zero marketing prior to playing the game, I feel I have the advantage of analyzing the game itself instead of the words surrounding it. If you know you are already going to buy the game, then listening to marketing has zero positive results, and more than a few negatives. And anyone that has played the previous games and therefore cared about the rachni decision was going to buy it.

 

It's also unfortunate that some of the earlier games' decisions were homogenized for ME3, like Udina always being the Council member. They simply had too many variables after ME1 and ME2 and had to cut some for ME3. Hopefully if they do a trilogy again they plan better and have a good idea which decisions they want to focus on importing.

 

 

Thier mistake was in not allowing enough ending variation, and capping the "best possible" outcome.  It's hard to argue the EMS values being too easy or hard to achieve when the best possible outcomes fall far short of satisfactory.  It's like entire tiers of outcomes are missing.

 

And it's not okay to be deliberately deceptive in marketing.  Whether you in particular paid attention or not.  Marketing is how you draw players and generate buzz about a game.   By the time you have a chance to analyze a game yourself, odds are money has already changed hands, and it's too late at that point.  Misleading these players about what's in the game is a douche move, no two ways about it. 

 

Even worse when you have already bought the first two installments of the story, and are counting on these chcoies (which we were assured would matter) actually, you know mattering.

 

I hope they never do a trilogy again.  It's a foolish hope, but I hope they scrap Shepard's story in its entirety and start fresh.  And I hope they do away with save imports.   

[CronoDragoon]

Thier mistake was in not allowing enough ending variation, and capping the "best possible" outcome.  It's hard to argue the EMS values being too easy or hard to achieve when the best possible outcomes fall far short of satisfactory.  It's like entire tiers of outcomes are missing.

 

In other words, there would be no ending variation issue if the High EMS didn't kill the geth or EDI. Okay.

 

And it's not okay to be deliberately deceptive in marketing.

 

I didn't say it was. I said that by not paying attention to the marketing, I can see the game for what it is, not what was promised.

[Iakus]

In other words, there would be no ending variation issue if the High EMS didn't kill the geth or EDI. Okay.

 

 

There's be no ending variation issue if:

 

There was a High EMS Destroy that didn't kill the geth

Control and Synthesis outcomes that didn't kill Shepard

Control outcomes where the Reapers left

Control outcomes where the Reapers kept Reaping

Any "bad" Synthesis outcome

More catastrophically bad options besides Low EMS Destroy and later Refuse

A fourth option that didn't amount to "Rocks fall, everyone dies"

 

 

Epilogues where Shepard is:

Dead

Alive

Crippled

A savior

A cautionary tale

etc

 

A galaxy that is:

United

Divided

In ruins

Reshaped

 

Mixed and matched in any number of possibilities.

 

Not seven outcomes of varying levels of depression, with fake smiley faces stamped on them via "free dlc"

[CronoDragoon]

That's far too many variables, Iakus. You'd really need to tone that down to make it realistic.

[Iakus]

That's far too many variables, Iakus. You'd really need to tone that down to make it realistic.

 

How is it unreasonable?

 

The first set of chocies is really just new tiers on the EMS scale.  It doesn't even change the RGB option (well except for having a valid fourth choice, that may be a bit much) 

 

The second set of variables (Shepard's state) is simply allowing for Shep to live and how Shepard is remembered, which could be drawn from paragon/renegade score, flagged chocies, and perhaps final dialogue options

 

The third set of options (state of the galaxy) could be tricky.  Some of it could be based on EMS.  Others on some of the "big choices" made across the trilogy (Wrex/Wreav, Rannoch choice, Which Council is in power) as well as RGB 

 

The EMS system, plot flags, War Assets.  It's practically made for endless permutation.  Instead we get our Shepard Walter White-ed and polychromatic outcomes.