181 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

Turian Soldier and Quarian Marksman.

Enjoy your pellet based sniper rifles that don't have hipfire penalties.

[megabeast37215]

Wow Luckystar... You sure do act like you know a lot for someone who knows next to nothing.

[LuckyStarr]

Proximity mine has a large radius and is very easy to use once you're used to it. It also has a far greater range and a bigger debuff than Snap Freeze.

 

I don't ever use Snap Freeze on AIU, so don't consider it when assessing damage potential.

[Deerber]

I don't ever use Snap Freeze on AIU, so don't consider it when assessing damage potential.

Then the GI does quite a lot more damage.

Not considering all the other 17484739 advantages he has over the AIU...

[LuckyStarr]

I think you might change your mind on who's the best once you've played the game a fair bit more.

I'd love to Getting bored of Reegar AIU already, since it's the only kit I can play Gold with so far. Will try Claymore GI next. It'd be nice to be able to shoot longer than 4 meters distance.

 

 

Then the GI does quite a lot more damage.

Not at all. Did you check links in the first post?

I don't mean applied damage, that may vary depending on how many pellets hit. I mean raw, max possible damage. AIU excels in that by far.

 

 

Not considering all the other 17484739 advantages he has over the AIU...

Geth scanner, improved accuracy. But at the expense of low HP and not having a panic button. What did I miss?

[DisturbedPsic0]

 

 

Geth scanner, improved accuracy. But at the expense of low HP and not having a panic button. What did I miss?

Once you learn not to stand directly in front of enemies, that panic button means zilch. Hunter mode gives you a tactical advantage to not put yourself in a bad situation. If you start to rely on easy mode (repair matrix, jugg heavy melee, stim packs) you get lazy and it makes you horrible with other kits. You could put the geth scanner on the AIU for similar vision, but then you can't put on shock trooper upgrade or shotgun amp for extra damage that the GI gets.

 

I'm having trouble deciding if you're a troll or not. You ask a lot of questions (a very good thing) and you're trying to learn. However, you constantly negate what all the veteran players around here are telling you, which confuses me. Keep in mind, Kalence is not the end all be all when it comes to how to play the game and how damage is calculated. This game is over 2 years old, and many of us have been playing since the beginning and logging hundreds and even thousands of hours. We've played every kit, every way you can think and try to save new players the hassle of playing less than optimal kits. If you're going to ask questions (which you should) you should be prepared to accept the answers, especially from the forum veterans (you'll know then soon if you dont' already). Believe if or not, they do want to help, you just have to let them.

[Ribosome]

Can you please explain your idea? Why can't AIU hit anything reliably? Why is GI better? Not to mention Destroyer?

All of these have accuracy-boosting capabilities (hunter mode, devastator mode, marksman), thus increasing the effective range of weapons like the claymore, raider, etc

The "cant hit anything reliably" bit is a load of rubbish

[LuckyStarr]

I'm having trouble deciding if you're a troll or not. You ask a lot of questions (a very good thing) and you're trying to learn. However, you constantly negate what all the veteran players around here are telling you, which confuses me. Keep in mind, Kalence is not the end all be all when it comes to how to play the game and how damage is calculated. This game is over 2 years old, and many of us have been playing since the beginning and logging hundreds and even thousands of hours. We've played every kit, every way you can think and try to save new players the hassle of playing less than optimal kits. If you're going to ask questions (which you should) you should be prepared to accept the answers, especially from the forum veterans (you'll know then soon if you dont' already). Believe if or not, they do want to help, you just have to let them.

I haven't seen convincing arguments yet that prove AIU is not the best shotgun platform. However, I did not play AIU other than with Reegar (only 1 hour of Wraith, which has decent accuracy) and I didn't play conventional shotguns a lot at all yet. Peddroelm did confirm my idea  that she's the best Reegar user, and my feeling that this conclusion can be generalized for all other shotguns might well be wrong. I'm going to try Claymore or Krusader AIU and GI to see if HM really compensates for lower damage potential.

[Kislitsin]

Can you please explain your idea? Why can't AIU hit anything reliably? Why is GI better? Not to mention Destroyer?

How long do you play the game?

 

There are only four real shotguns. One would have been the best if It didn't feel so dumb and slow (wraith), one is the boss eater (pirranha), one is the everything eater but is a rubbish without a good platform (raider), one is the best shotgun per se (Claymoar).

 

All four benefit big time from accuracy boosts and Smart choke (50%) is a must on them. So you have a 75% accuracy on them with "classic" geth and 95-110% (depends on spec) with MM kits. And the difference is astounishing.

 

AIU can run as fast as she wants, can eat as much grenades as she wants to stay close, but she will never be able to HS the enemy across the map with claymoar or raider. And she will never be able to empty 3 pirranha clips in the time of 2 clips (or to have an 8 shot pirranha).

 

To be honest, once you learn how not to stand in the open - vanilla human infy becomes a better choice for any SG.

[Deerber]

 

Not at all. Did you check links in the first post?

I don't mean applied damage, that may vary depending on how many pellets hit. I mean raw, max possible damage. AIU excels in that by far.

 

 

Geth scanner, improved accuracy. But at the expense of low HP and not having a panic button. What did I miss?

 

Lol. Of course I did, but I didn't take them into consideration since you're using aweful builds XD

 

If you use PM and not SF (as debuffs), then the GI does more damage. If you use both, then the AIU does slightly more damage... When she's inside the enemies' faces.

 

In reality, the GI does more damage, always. Thanks to the accuracy boost.

 

 

 

Advantages of the GI: moar weapon damage, moar rate of fire (multiplicative damage boosts anyone?), moar accuracy (meaning MUCH moar damage), moar wallhack and even moar weapon damage because of the gear, much better CC capabilities, moar damaging powers (by a lot), no need to max cloak if not with a sniper build, MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better melee (best in the game), moar shield recharge speed... And, finally, the most important thing: moar speed ALWAYS, without having to burn a grenade.

 

 

Advantages of the AIU: easier to play.

 

 

 

... I prefer the GI.

 

 

Edit: and the Tsol/Quarksman are still better because not even a GI can OHK a Phantom across London with a raider

[LuckyStarr]

How long do you play the game?

You could check my profile to see I have just over 100 hours

 

 

If you use PM and not SF (as debuffs), then the GI does more damage. If you use both, then the AIU does slightly more damage... When she's inside the enemies' faces.

I do not use SF. Indeed, my GI build is bad, I'll replace it with a proper one later. Even with PM it has less damage than AIU without SF. Again, I'm talking damage potential, not applied damage. Obviously GI can easily win that one at certain range.

[Kislitsin]

Ok, here you can see old TechnoTurians solo with TRaider

 

Here you can see amazing Anno's performance with GI.

 

And you probably will see an amazing TRaider duo... [looks at Deerber] when we have a time.

 

AIU can suck ballz of those guys.

[Deerber]

 

And you probably will see an amazing TRaider duo... [looks at Deerber] when we have a time.

 

AIU can suck ballz of those guys.

 

Hehe more like when *you* have time

You're never online! XD

 

You could check my profile to see I have just over 100 hours

 

 

I do not use SF. Indeed, my GI build is bad, I'll replace it with a proper one later. Even with PM it has less damage than AIU without SF. Again, I'm talking damage potential, not applied damage. Obviously GI can easily win that one at certain range.

 

Nope. With PM, it does more damage than the AIU. It's math.

[LuckyStarr]

Nope. With PM, it does more damage than the AIU. It's math.

Either your math is wrong or Kalence's math is wrong. I don't know who to trust more.

Maybe you're forgetting the 25% damage boost that AIU gets from cloak 6b?

[DisturbedPsic0]

I haven't seen convincing arguments yet that prove AIU is not the best shotgun platform. However, I did not play AIU other than with Reegar (only 1 hour of Wraith, which has decent accuracy) and I didn't play conventional shotguns a lot at all yet. Peddroelm did confirm my idea  that she's the best Reegar user, and my feeling that this conclusion can be generalized for all other shotguns might well be wrong. I'm going to try Claymore or Krusader AIU and GI to see if HM really compensates for lower damage potential.

That right there is what you need to get over. You're too focused on the damage number coming out of the gun. That number doesn't mean anything unless all the pellets hit. And people have been giving convincing arguments, you're simply saying they're wrong. If you increase rate of fire and accuracy, you're increasing damage. I'll list the benefits of the GI that have already been listed:

1) Wall hax

2) Speed

3) Rate of fire bonus

4) Accuracy bonus

5) Proxy mine area debuff and no target cap, AOE stagger

 

All of these benefit every shotgun in the game (rate of fire to a lesser extent but it still helps). 

Here are the benefits of the AIU

1) Faster than GI when she pops a grenade, but you need grenades for that boost, and it's temporary

2) More single shot damage (if every pellet hits)

3) Potentially more survivable

 

You're way, way to hung up on the number 2 bonus on the AIU. It's very, very rare every pellet hits on her kit unless you put the barrel into the enemies mouth. Also, you've admitted that you're only played with the Reegar, but you still try and contradict the people who have actually branched out and tried the other guns. Here's a fun test for you to try. Take the Turian Soldier with any shotgun (besides the Crusader). Start up a bronze solo. Stand at various distances from the wall and shoot so you can see the pellet spread in the wall. Then activate marksman and do the same thing. You'll see how big a different accuracy makes with shotguns and why the GI having a permanent accuracy boost makes him amazing. You could do the same thing with the GI if you want with Hunter mode on and then off.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Crusader is the one shotgun that doesn't benefit from accuracy at all. It fires a slug, not a pellet spread. It will only benefit from the rate of fire bonus and damage boost. It can still destroy in the right hands though.

[LuckyStarr]

Does ROF bonus make sense for shotguns? On the one hand, I've used Wraith, Crusader and Raider (of the good shotguns), and did not feel their rate of fire is too low. On the other hand, you still need to wait for recoil to wear off before taking another shot.

 

Edit: Oh, thanks for explaining the Crusader! I did wonder why it has reticle aim and not circle, and how I can snipe across half the map (and miss up close), but I assumed that its pellet spread is just very tight. Now it makes sense.

[LanceCucumber]

Luckystarr, as an avid fan of the AIU, sadly she does not win this argument. This topic has been discussed in length multiple times. Maybe on paper the AIU might have higher DPS but the effective dps of the GI wins. That being said, either kit is beastly with a shotgun, I prefer the piranha on both kits.

[Ribosome]

Here's a good explanation concerning how rate of fire bonuses affect weapons with small magazine capacities. It was something I was curious about for the longest time and only found out about just recently
 

Rate of fire bonus does help with one shot weapons, although less. Whenever you fire a weapon and empty a clip, you need to wait for the (1/RoF) time before you can start the reload animation. If you have a higher RoF, you need to wait less, so effectively you're firing more often, although the advantage is not as big as it would be if you were using a weapon with more shots.
 
Take a claymore, for example. The (1/RoF) time is very similar to the reload animation duration (the canceled one). So a rof bonus would actually "apply" only to the time before the reload animation starts, that is, half of the total. So you're actually getting a benefit close to half of what you're seeing. Say, if you had a 20% rof bonus, you're firing 10% faster overall.

[peddroelm]

Ok, here you can see old TechnoTurians solo with TRaider

 

Here you can see amazing Anno's performance with GI.

 

And you probably will see an amazing TRaider duo... [looks at Deerber] when we have a time.

 

AIU can suck ballz of those guys.

Not the best map to showcase accuracy gifted classes superiority vs AIU   (most fights happen at such close range (distances are short enough so getting AIU in "optimal range" doesn't take that long) that the extra accuracy isn't exploited to full effect - I think in skilled hands AIU should be able to compete with GI on that map - (I might be wrong or none of the pros wanna sink down to AIU level and give it (some) serious tries and prove it - stay away from that noobie char  you might get stained/dirty/contaminated) ..

 

On the larger more open maps however - where accuracy is more vital the extra durability of AIU also has more "weight" ... So again don't see this huge gap in performance  ..

 

The playstyle  needs to be different  - need to get out "GI mode" (a bit more running around) and put that shotgun in close enough range that accuracy isn't a factor anymore ...

[LanceCucumber]

When I was playing regularly with some of the ps3 crowd, I could top or finish real close second AIU vs GI. I would be willing to get my ass handed to me by a GI on either xbox or ps3 to see who truly is the king of the shotgun.

[Heldarion]

Ya'll are forgetting the best shotgun in the game - Talon.

 

No kit is better with the Talon than GI is.

[Deerber]

Either your math is wrong or Kalence's math is wrong. I don't know who to trust more.

Maybe you're forgetting the 25% damage boost that AIU gets from cloak 6b?

 

My math is surely better than Kalence's (more its fault than my merit)

But in this instance, they happen to reach the same conclusion.

 

Look here and here. I just took the links in your OP and switched a few ranks of fitness on the GI for PM rank 5.

 

 

The playstyle  needs to be different  - need to get out "GI mode" (a bit more running around) and put that shotgun in close enough range that accuracy isn't a factor anymore ...

 

And yet you're slower than the GI without burning grenades, so that works against you. That said, I'm sure she can be stupidly good when played right. Just not as good as a GI, although somewhat close.

[Cirvante]

Ya'll are forgetting the best shotgun in the game - Talon.

 

No kit is better with the Talon than GI is.

 

Alquinn pls

 

GI is still the best weapons platform, which includes shotguns.

[Ribosome]

melee GI >>>>

[Zyzimorph]

GI is the best shotgun user, hands down, TSol comes close .

The AIU is stupid.