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So this is more MEU than ME3 related, but.......


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#1
Manc4life7

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Are the Karpyshyn novels considered canon?

 

It's a rather minor detail, but I am reading Revelation and the description of the Citadel (physical size, population) don't jive with what I remember from the in-game codex.  So this got me thinking - is there a "definitive" source or catalog of canon information for the Mass Effect Universe?  The wiki comes close, but has some (from what I can remember) glaring errors in spots.

 

Anybody got anything better?  Has BW ever released an encyclopedia-like guide to the MEU?



#2
geth47

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I believe that both the novels and the comic books are canon (and so is the anime), The live-action motion picture probably won´t be, but a re-telling of events.

 

The games themselves contradict one another in some points. Do not expect total coherence. However, I believe that should a certain info from a comic book or novel conflict with one of games, most likely it´s the info from the game that takes precedence over the lesser source. 



#3
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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The games are high-canon. The Codex is high-canon. Anything that remotely contradicts something in either the games or the codex should be thrown out and disregarded. 

The end. 


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#4
geth47

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The biotic god has spoken.


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#5
ImaginaryMatter

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The games are high-canon. The Codex is high-canon. Anything that remotely contradicts something in either the games or the codex should be thrown out and disregarded. 

The end. 

 

That's basically where I stand on things.



#6
Steelcan

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If it isn't in the games or codex I don't even acknowledge its existence.

 

Maybe I would if the comics were any good....



#7
Manc4life7

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The games are high-canon. The Codex is high-canon. Anything that remotely contradicts something in either the games or the codex should be thrown out and disregarded. 

The end. 

 

I tend to agree. 

 

I would love for BW to commission a MEU encyclopedia with all in-game codex entries included, and expounded upon - include basically every little tid-bit and morsel of info you could possibly obtain from the games.  An official, sanctioned wiki, I guess.  Something like that, produced via high quality materials, throw in some concept art & sketches - man, I would buy that in a heartbeat. 



#8
Steelcan

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I tend to agree. 

 

I would love for BW to commission a MEU encyclopedia with all in-game codex entries included, and expounded upon - include basically every little tid-bit and morsel of info you could possibly obtain from the games.  An official, sanctioned wiki, I guess.  Something like that, produced via high quality materials, throw in some concept art & sketches - man, I would buy that in a heartbeat. 

not if Walters is the one penning it >_>


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#9
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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For example: Cerberus competence and knowing about the Reapers for what, 25-30 years? 

Wasn't mentioned in the games; didn't happen; isn't canon. 



#10
DeathScepter

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To OTBG, As for Cerberus competence, they always had that. Players were shown a limited scope. 

 

 

As for knowing for the Reapers, it is a plothole.



#11
DeinonSlayer

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I rank what Drew and E'toile wrote as being higher canon than what was exclusively Walters' writing. Those two lay the groundwork, wrote all codex entries and planet descriptions. Walters gave us "thanix missiles" and Kai Leng.

To me, a lot of the newer material since the original writers left (particularly the comics) comes across more like sanctioned fanfiction than anything to be taken seriously.
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#12
ImaginaryMatter

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I rank what Drew and E'toile wrote as being higher canon than what was exclusively Walters' writing. Those two lay the groundwork, wrote all codex entries and planet descriptions. Walter gave us "thanix missiles" and Kai Leng.

To me, a lot of the newer material since the original writers left (particularly the comics) comes across more like sanctioned fanfiction than anything to be taken seriously.

 

While I prefer Drew over Walters, I think it was Chris E'toile leaving that was the biggest loss.



#13
geth47

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And what were his contributions?

 

I really don´t know. 



#14
Jorji Costava

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L'Etoile wrote Ashley Williams plus all the codex entries in ME1, Legion and Thane in ME2, and a bunch of other stuff. Here's a link.



#15
Bob from Accounting

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it's pretty comical how quickly people on the BSN will gleefully shill or insult any of the writers based on evidence that they did or didn't work on a liked or disliked part of the story.

 

Looking back on some older posts, it seems Weekes was once the absolute darling of this section of the BSN and the favorite to take over lead writer. Then his work with the geth became an issue not too long ago and we have the same people whining over how incompetent he is.

 

It's clear how deep many people here are in delusions that everything bad is the fault of some writers and everything good is the product of others and react very poorly to having them shattered. Just goes to show the mental fragility of many people here, I suppose.



#16
ImaginaryMatter

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it's pretty comical how quickly people on the BSN will gleefully shill or insult any of the writers based on evidence that they did or didn't work on a liked or disliked part of the story.

 

Looking back on some older posts, it seems Weekes was once the absolute darling of this section of the BSN and the favorite to take over lead writer. Then his work with the geth became an issue not too long ago and we have the same people whining over how incompetent he is.

 

It's clear how deep many people here are in delusions that everything bad is the fault of some writers and everything good is the product of others and react very poorly to having them shattered. Just goes to show the mental fragility of many people here, I suppose.

 

Do you want to put out some facts? We don't have access to your head, nor your delusions, about why people on BSN do what people on BSN do.

 

To wit, no it's not clear. The only one in delusion is yourself.



#17
dgcatanisiri

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Drew and L'Etoile were definitely significant losses for the game, Drew for the general world-building for the various species and for the Citadel races, making an emphasis on how humanity wasn't the driving force for civilization as we know it, and L'Etoile for defying conventions with the characters under his care - Thane and Legion are both extremely alien in their attitudes, not just human-like, just with bumpy foreheads, which made them much more difficult to write for. That's the big flaw of the Rannoch arc, that Legion and the geth stop being the same geth from ME2 and become 'traditional' AIs, looking to be more 'human,' when in ME2, Legion was openly critical of the independence favored by organics. It's not that it's not a story worth telling, or a bad story to begin with, just that it doesn't follow from where the story began. So once those two were gone, gone two thirds of the way into a trilogy, everyone else had to somewhat scramble to fill in the gaps as best as they could however they could. It's understandable, it just leaves a few significant gaps in the course of the characters and the storylines.

 

On the original topic, I tend to take the games as 'primary canon,' as that's where the series originates, and everything else is broader, more 'this is roughly what happened, but it may not have gone exactly like this.' There are points where the movie, the novels, and the comics diverge from what's established in the games, so in those cases, games trump comics (so the last five minutes-ish of Paragon Lost didn't really happen since James says he got his recommendation for the N7 program on the day the Reapers hit Earth in the game, Kaidan's telling of things at Brain Camp to Shepard isn't in line with the comic so I go with the game's explanation... etc.) and otherwise, I try not to think about it. The thing with multimedia franchises is how easily the 'canon' can spiral out of hand.



#18
wolfhowwl

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While I prefer Drew over Walters, I think it was Chris E'toile leaving that was the biggest loss.

 

While Chris' departure was certainly felt in some areas, Drew leaving had much bigger effect as it lead to the appointment of someone who had a much...different vision for the series and perhaps just may not have been up the job.

 

It's pretty clear that Walters is responsible for all the Cerberus nonsense that metastasized throughout the IP.

 

You can read in the Final Hours of Mass Effect how Mac had his content involving Cerberus cut from ME1 and saw ME2 as a "chance" to bring back "his idea for the shadowy organization of Cerberus" which was evidently not ME1's small black-ops group but instead a SPECTRE-esque super organization with vast financial backing. It appears he simply couldn't let his creation not have an enormous role in the games regardless if it conflicted with one of Shepard's backgrounds or other ME1 content. 

 

If he had been leashed I doubt his pet project, Cerberus, would have dominated Mass Effect 2 like it did or at the very least had its characterization more grounded in the setting instead of being something out of a comic book (which Mac would obviously rather be writing for).



#19
ImaginaryMatter

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While Chris' departure was certainly felt in some areas, Drew leaving had much bigger effect as it lead to the appointment of someone who had a much...different vision for the series and perhaps just may not have been up the job.

 

It's pretty clear that Walters is responsible for all the Cerberus nonsense that metastasized throughout the IP.

 

You can read in the Final Hours of Mass Effect how Mac had his content involving Cerberus cut from ME1 and saw ME2 as a "chance" to bring back "his idea for the shadowy organization of Cerberus" which was evidently not ME1's small black-ops group but instead a SPECTRE-esque super organization with vast financial backing. It appears he simply couldn't let his creation not have an enormous role in the games regardless if it conflicted with one of Shepard's backgrounds or other ME1 content. 

 

If he had been leashed I doubt his pet project, Cerberus, would have dominated Mass Effect 2 like it did or at the very least had its characterization more grounded in the setting instead of being something out of a comic book (which Mac would obviously rather be writing for).

 

Hmm, I did not know this. I thought Cerberus's rebirth was Drew's idea.



#20
CronoDragoon

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That's the big flaw of the Rannoch arc, that Legion and the geth stop being the same geth from ME2 and become 'traditional' AIs, looking to be more 'human,' when in ME2, Legion was openly critical of the independence favored by organics. It's not that it's not a story worth telling, or a bad story to begin with, just that it doesn't follow from where the story began.

 

As far as I'm concerned, ME2 ended with a big question mark on the future of the geth. Legion criticizes independence because he is horrified that the geth appear to be beginning to show similar tendencies to diverge. As far as I'm concerned, both ME2 and ME3 were leading towards a situation where the hivemind was either 1) unsustainable or 2) sustainable through force, a la rewriting those who disagree. This is why I have no issue with Legion embracing individualism in ME3. I saw it as one possible path he takes after his existential crisis after the geth heretic mission.


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#21
Steelcan

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As far as I'm concerned, ME2 ended with a big question mark on the future of the geth. Legion criticizes independence because he is horrified that the geth appear to be beginning to show similar tendencies to diverge. As far as I'm concerned, both ME2 and ME3 were leading towards a situation where the hivemind was either 1) unsustainable or 2) sustainable through force, a la rewriting those who disagree. This is why I have no issue with Legion embracing individualism in ME3. I saw it as one possible path he takes after his existential crisis after the geth heretic mission.

 

And that'd be character growth, if he ever acknowledged his older view and his newer view



#22
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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Hmm, I did not know this. I thought Cerberus's rebirth was Drew's idea.

No, Drew had the Geth reviving Shepard, I believe. 


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#23
KaiserShep

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Weird as it sounds, I think I would have been more interested in having the geth do it. Not sure what kind of reason the geth would even have to do it though.



#24
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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Weird as it sounds, I think I would have been more interested in having the geth do it. Not sure what kind of reason the geth would even have to do it though.

The Geth doing it makes no less sense than Cerberus doing it. 



#25
KaiserShep

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The Geth doing it makes no less sense than Cerberus doing it. 

 

It wasn't really a matter of it making more or less sense, but it beats affiliating with what ended up being space Nazis.