2014 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

I knew from the start that was highly unlikely. *angrily weeps about no CE Inq* NO I will never get over it. *tosses tables*

Look at it this way- if you play your cards right, your Dalish elf could upgrade to a city elf.

[renfrees]

I'd rather not.

And now you just defied the offchance of understanding it. The cruel reality of the internetz.

[Ryzaki]

It is. It ended up lasting 10 years. And it sparked not only the war of austrian succession, but also helped set the ground work for the 7 years war as well.

 

What's funny though is that The Battle of Karansebes is the dumber of the two, since at least in jenkin's ear, there were at least two sides involved in the conflict, unlike karansebes where you had infantry vs scouting of the same army going at it.

 

That's...insanity. Talk about a pointless waste of life O_o

 

lol so it was pretty much a dog chasing it's own tail? Except significantly less cute.

[Master Warder Z_]

Those same accounts that ignore elven slavery? And also the fact that part of their parthenon consists of eldritch horrors?

 

Amazing isn't it?

 

They ignore painful portions of their history?!

 

  Just like how i pretend 1475-1502 AD didn't happen.

[AresKeith]

I haven't even broke the first chapter of TME so I'm a little bit like a fish out of water here

 

Finish the book first 

[LobselVith8]

According to canon the war started because the Dalish attacked a city, the build up to the war is another matter

 

No, according to WoT the attack on Red Crossing lead to an Exalted March. As I pointed out in my elven thread, the entry is rather brief, and doesn't say who was right or wrong.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's address the simple fact that it doesn't say most of them are malevolent, so that's that. I'm also not going to use Zathrian or the single clan in the Dales to justify your vilification of the majority of the Dalish. The simple fact is Gaider said the clans were all varied and different; that was the point. That's the same thing I've continually stressed as well, which is promptly ignored by people like you.

Here's the quote you used from Gaider. We'll dissect it together. 

 

The Dalish have the Gathering every 10 years, where all the clans are supposed to gather and the Keepers of each clan share their knowledge with each other. This is also where Dalish-wide issues are dealt with, and ideally the Gathering is supposed to keep the Dalish roughly in step with each other. In practice, though, you are correct. Each clan tends to go the way that its Keeper dictates. Some clans are very militant, almost xenophobic. Some are little more than bandits in whatever wilderness they've staked out (this is often the case in Tevinter, for instance). A few are quite benevolent and live in peace with nearby humans -- the Rivaini city of Llomerryn is known to have a semi-permanent Dalish encampment on its outskirts, and trade with the elves for their crafts is encouraged.

 

The Dalish have the Gathering every 10 years, where all the clans are supposed to gather and the Keepers of each clan share their knowledge with each other.This is also where Dalish-wide issues are dealt with, and ideally the Gathering is supposed to keep the Dalish roughly in step with each other. In practice, though, you are correct.

This part is pretty self explanatory and doesn't help either case much.

 

Each clan tends to go the way that its Keeper dictates.

So yes, each clan is self-governing so the actions of one can't be used as a standard. However...

 

Some clans are very militant, almost xenophobic. Some are little more than bandits in whatever wilderness they've staked out (this is often the case in Tevinter, for instance). 

These are two cases of 'malevolent' Dalish clan types. They used the word some to describe each, so it is some x 2. 

 

A few are quite benevolent and live in peace with nearby humans -- the Rivaini city of Llomerryn is known to have a semi-permanent Dalish encampment on its outskirts, and trade with the elves for their crafts is encouraged.

Now here are the 'benevolent' clan type. Notice how instead of some, they use few. The definition of few is: a small number of. That means that more are bandits or xenophobic than benevolent since some is used as a higher number count than few. "None < One < Couple < Few < Some < Several < Many < All" 

[Steelcan]

No, according to WoT the attack on Red Crossing lead to an Exalted March. As I pointed out in my elven thread, the entry is rather brief, and doesn't say who was right or wrong.

 

So the Exalted March was called as a direct result of elven aggression?

[Master Warder Z_]

No, according to WoT the attack on Red Crossing lead to an Exalted March. As I pointed out in my elven thread, the entry is rather brief, and doesn't say who was right or wrong.

 

Just heavily implies, and all but spells out sure.

 

._.

[Divine Justinia V]

Finish the book first 

 

I was asking a question, go away

[Master Warder Z_]

So the Exalted March was called as a direct result of elven aggression?

 

It all but said it in so many words Steel ._.

 

I must have reread passage fifteen times by now.

[renfrees]

I pointed out there were two historical accounts about the fall of the Dales, and that the player isn't in a position to know which one is correct. I also pointed out that I don't see why an elven-run kingdom would lead to the apocalypse.

Well, considering that the first active steps they made to reclaiming it, is summoned a FO. If the boots fits...

[AresKeith]

I was asking a question, go away

 

But the answer might spoil it for you 

[Ryzaki]

Look at it this way- if you play your cards right, your Dalish elf could upgrade to a city elf.

 

Hmm...possibilities.

 

I'll do qunari chick first then see how the dalish bits go. If I can play a completely un dalish (An ANDRASTIAN! le gasp!) dalish elf I might go for it.

[Divine Justinia V]

But the answer might spoil it for you 

 

Well I was willing to take it

[LobselVith8]

Those same accounts that ignore elven slavery? And also the fact that part of their parthenon consists of eldritch horrors? And don't acknowledge the cities they took over or people they killed in their war against the chantry?

 

The fall of the Dales doesn't cover Arlathan. The Dalish point out their own knowledge is limited in certain areas. That's why it's addressed that they don't know who started the war, or what the war between the Creators and the Forgotten Ones was about.

 

By the sound of it, their homeland of the dales was a pretty defensible place, they could have bunkered down and weathered orlais's advances for some time, even having a steady supply of food and water from the forests, orlais would probably not have been able to call an exalted march if they'd stuck to that plan. Given that, the only reason to attack red crossing and all the other cities, was to expand their territory, not for any sort of defensive purpose.

 

The Dalish historical account claims it was because the Chantry took issue with their refusal to convert. The player isn't in a position to know which historical account is correct, of course.

[Shadow Fox]

I pointed out there were two historical accounts about the fall of the Dales, and that the player isn't in a position to know which one is correct. I also pointed out that I don't see why an elven-run kingdom would lead to the apocalypse.

 

You people really don't even bother trying to be remotely accurate in responding to me.

While being heavily biased in favor of the Dalish one.

 

And I and others continually pointed out it might not lead to nirvana either.

 

I could say the same for you not addressing the possibility the Dalish might be oppressive to those who refuse to convert.

[LobselVith8]

Now here are the 'benevolent' ones. Notice how instead of some, they use few. The definition of few is: a small number of. That means that more are bandits or xenophobic than benevolent since some is used as a higher number count than few. "None < One < Couple < Few < Some < Several < Many < All" 

 

The line "benevolent and live in peace with nearby humans" is something you glossed over. When you actually have something that reads that most of the Dalish are malevolent, aside from your preference for this to be the case, let me know.

[Master Warder Z_]

While being heavily biased in favor of the Dalish one.

 

And I and others continually pointed out it might not lead to nirvana either.

 

I could say the same for you not addressing the possibility the Dalish might be oppressive to those who refuse to convert.

 

You know while this back and forth is amusing, It is ultimately pointless right?

 

Gaider could swoop in declare that if every elf in the world died, the Blights would magically never happen again, the Darkspawn would all combust and die, and the Old Gods would be sealed in their prisons for eternity and he would still cling to some trite reason to defend the Dalish despite the entire world being better off if...well that species disappeared in this instance.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hmm...possibilities.

 

I'll do qunari chick first then see how the dalish bits go. If I can play a completely un dalish (An ANDRASTIAN! le gasp!) dalish elf I might go for it.

It's a silly thing, but I actually want to do a Qunari playthrough as an at least modestly Andrastian Quanri. Not expecting much more than we got in, say, DAO or DA2 (where I frequently just went to Ethina to ask for a blessing), but Qunari Inquisitor being religious, as oppossed to ambivalence for the rest, is a must for me.

 

Though a personal story arc of the Dalish elf converting to Andrastianism would make me laugh for all the wrong reasons.

[Master Warder Z_]

The line "benevolent and live in peace with nearby humans" is something you glossed over. When you actually have something that reads that most of the Dalish are malevolent, aside from your preference for this to be the case, let me know.

 

When you have something that isn't your own speculation claiming they aren't let me know!

 

[LobselVith8]

So the Exalted March was called as a direct result of elven aggression?

 

The attack on Red Crossing may have been the result of armed and armored soldiers trespassing into sovereign territory. That's why there are two historical accounts about the fall of the Dales.

[Cainhurst Crow]

That's...insanity. Talk about a pointless waste of life O_o

 

lol so it was pretty much a dog chasing it's own tail? Except significantly less cute.

 

A bit off topic, but here's a basic rundown of what happened in Karansebes.

Spoiler

A bunch of scouts in the austrian army were doing their thing, riding on horseback to guard against turkish invasion. They spot a bunch of gypsy's with a lot of homemade liquor and decided to get as shitfaced as possible before anyone noticed they were gone.

 

They were partying for hours, and when the infintry was sent to find them, the higher ups assuming turks might have gotten to them, they find them partying it up with the gypsys, and naturally ask for a taste of that **** as well. The scouts refused, and an argument ensued, and one of the drunken scouts trying to draw his pistol shot himself in the foot.

 

Now, this was during a time of tense war between austria and turkey in another part of the world, things were pretty much like east and west berlin. So when part of the infantry heard a gunshot who weren't close enough to see what was going on, they assumed a turkish army was coming their way. They saw a bunch of people in the distance, their own guys, and assumed they were turkish soliders, firing at the scouting riders and infantry with a volley. Now everyone was losing their ****, infantry was shooting at infantry, drunken scouts were running over people on horseback screaming about turkish raiders, and to make matters worse, half the army didn't speak austrian but german instead, so when the german officers shouted halt, the panic'd soliders heard allah instead, and ran screaming and firing in all directions back to the camp.

 

The camp, which by that time had gotten to bed, woke up with the sound of explosives, gunshots, and people screaming of an invading army, came out to see a bunch of bullet stricken scouts riding for their lives, and promptly paniced and ordered a cannon volley on their own camp and countryside from the nearby towns garrison. Then everyone ran away from the area, and it took until morning of panicing and fortification to realize the turks hadn't even been at the area, let alone tried to launch a full scale war.

 

[LobselVith8]

Well, considering that the first active steps they made to reclaiming it, is summoned a FO. If the boots fits...

 

I'm not the least bit surprised that the prospect of the elves not being under the boot of humanity is something some of you would find apocalyptic.

[Steelcan]

The attack on Red Crossing may have been the result of armed and armored soldiers trespassing into sovereign territory. That's why there are two historical accounts about the fall of the Dales.

 

But the Exalted March was called after the Dalish attacked Red Crossing, correct?