2014 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Which, according to the Dalish historical account, was followed by an incursion of the militant arm of the Chantry into sovereign territory. Why am I not surprised that some of you gloss over the serious issue of an army invading a foreign nation.

 

 

In response to people who act as though the Chantry historical account is the true, indisputable truth of the universe. And I address that the player doesn't know the truth enough times; I see no reason to plaster every single post with that comment when I'm addressing the same people.

Again, using the Dalish accounts for when the Dalish lost is not a smart practice. Of course they are going to demonize the people who defeated them. In any case, there are three 'truths': The actual truth, and then each side's version of 'the truth'.

[LobselVith8]

By persecuting peaceful missionaries, and disallowing their own people religious freedom.

 

I was thinking about the armed and armored drug addicts who trespassed into a foreign kingdom.

 

No no no.... you see, when Andrastians fight back, they are actually being dicks. When Elves fight back, it is because they are persecuted. It is a very important distinction to make.

 

In retaliation to an attempt to forcibly convert the elves to a human religion by sending an army into the Dales.

[EmperorSahlertz]

People "gloss over" the Chantry "invading" the Dales, because people KNOW FOR A FACT that it was not the case. If anything what happened was that the Chantry sent Templar escorts along with the missionaries, which had previously been violently thrown out of the Dales. There is no record, beyond one verbal from a racist Dalish story-teller, who wasn't even born at the time of the events, that even remotely indicates that the Chantry ever "inaded" the Dales on their own.

[AresKeith]

In retaliation to an attempt to forcibly convert the elves to a human religion by sending an army into the Dales.

 

Because they marched on to the Capital, you really excepted them not to retaliate against the Dalish

[Cainhurst Crow]

Where does it say army lob? Where does it say a large group of armed men marched into the dales? From what I remember they said templars, not a templar army, not a templar batallion, not even a templar company, just templars. Could have been ranging from 2 to 20 to 200 but since the elves don't explain, I really doubt there was an army of templars flooding the boarder to the dales and that an army could be housed and fed at the small little boarder town of red crossing.

[MisterJB]

We do know that the elves attacked Red Crossing so, even if we assume the Dalish are telling the truth, Orlais had nothing to do with whatever Templars the Chantry decided to send and it was Orlais that was attacked by the elves.

[Shadow Fox]

Why exactly is it okay for the Dalish to not allow others the chance to convert to Andrastian but wrong for the Chantry to outlaw the Dalish religion?

 

They are doing the same thing.

[LobselVith8]

People "gloss over" the Chantry "invading" the Dales, because people KNOW FOR A FACT that it was not the case. If anything what happened was that the Chantry sent Templar escorts along with the missionaries, which had previously been violently thrown out of the Dales. There is no record, beyond one verbal from a racist Dalish story-teller, who wasn't even born at the time of the events, that even remotely indicates that the Chantry ever "inaded" the Dales on their own.

 

Being pro-templar =/= knowing for a fact. There is, quite literally, nothing to validate either historical account as the indisputable truth, but there are most certainly two historical accounts about what happened. And the Dalish have verbal and written historical records; the more you know.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We do know that the elves attacked Red Crossing so, even if we assume the Dalish are telling the truth, Orlais had nothing to do with whatever Templars the Chantry decided to send and it was Orlais that was attacked by the elves.

Indeed. It is like invading Italy for something the Catholic Church did simply because their headquarters are there. 

[AresKeith]

Being pro-templar =/= knowing for a fact. There is, quite literally, nothing to validate either historical account as the indisputable truth, but there are most certainly two historical accounts about what happened. And the Dalish have verbal and written historical records; the more you know.

 

What does pro-templar has to do with anything

[LobselVith8]

Because they marched on to the Capital, you really excepted them not to retaliate against the Dalish

 

You could say the same about the templar incursion into the kingdom of the Dales.

[EmissaryofLies]

The Chantry? Invading? Conquering?

 

Absolutely unheard of. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Indeed. It is like invading Italy for something the Catholic Church did simply because their headquarters are there. 

"We didn't like what the pope was doing, so we killed everyone in sicily. That way those cardinals will know we mean business"

 

Somehow that has less of a noble people defending their religious rights vibe and much more a conquering tyrant sort of ring to it.

[Shadow Fox]

Indeed. It is like invading Italy for something the Catholic Church did simply because their headquarters are there. 

More like a country invading another because diplomats brought armed guards with them for protection.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Being pro-templar =/= knowing for a fact. There is, quite literally, nothing to validate either historical account as the indisputable truth, but there are most certainly two historical accounts about what happened. And the Dalish have verbal and written historical records; the more you know.

...

...

...

We know there is no record in existance on the face of Thedas that indicates the Chantry ever "invaded" the Dales on their own. The ONLY source that even REMOTELY indicates such a thing ever happened (please do note that this source does not actually even remotely itself indicate an actual invasion... the more you know), is a single VERBAL source from a KNOWN racist Dalish story-teller, who was not even born at the time of the events he talks about. That is a HIGHLY unreliable source.

But sticking to this source, imagining that it does have a kernel of truth to it, there are SEVERAL more likely scenarios of what actually happened, which the rest of us have already pointed out.

That the Dalish can write a book, mean NOTHING in this case, since the source in question is VERBAL. Try not to shift the goalpost. It is unseeming of you.

[LobselVith8]

We do know that the elves attacked Red Crossing so, even if we assume the Dalish are telling the truth, Orlais had nothing to do with whatever Templars the Chantry decided to send and it was Orlais that was attacked by the elves.

 

If the elves attacked Red Crossing because the templars who were trespassing into the Dales were stationed there, then it addresses the reason it was singled out.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I get the feeling trying to convince Lob that the Dalish may have been in the wrong here is like trying to convince TKS that mages aren't all evil. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

You could say the same about the templar incursion into the kingdom of the Dales.

 

No we couldn't. The templars never sacked the dales capital, nor did they kill an entire village inside the dales and claim it as property of orlais.

[Cainhurst Crow]

If the elves attacked Red Crossing because the templars who were trespassing into the Dales were stationed there, then it addresses the reason it was singled out.

 

Source?

[EmperorSahlertz]

No we couldn't. The templars never sacked the dales capital, nor did they kill an entire village inside the dales and claim it as property of orlais.

What are you talking about? A Dalish story-teller never even said the Chantry invaded, but you COULD twist his word, and apply your own interpretation, and THEN it could be read as if the Templars totally invaded the Dales on their own!

[AresKeith]

I get the feeling trying to convince Lob that the Dalish may have been in the wrong here is like trying to convince TKS that mages aren't all evil. 

 

But TKS is most likely a troll though

[AresKeith]

The Chantry? Invading? Conquering?

 

Absolutely unheard of. 

 

If you say so

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But TKS is most likely a troll though

No, he seems too convinced to be trolling. Granted, he could just be a very good one.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I get the feeling trying to convince Lob that the Dalish may have been in the wrong here is like trying to convince TKS that mages aren't all evil. 

 

And when i said that mages were "evil" despite many are (to be honest many of them proved to be mental mentally unbalanced villains doing things for evil) i said they are walking bombs regardless their morality what is truth...

 

But i agree about lob

 

 

But TKS is most likely a troll though

 

Because?

[dragondreamer]

Why exactly is it okay for the Dalish to not allow others the chance to convert to Andrastian but wrong for the Chantry to outlaw the Dalish religion?

 

They are doing the same thing.

 

No one said it was okay.  But the Dalish aren't forcing anyone to convert.

 

Also for the subject of missionaries: They're not always sweetness and sunshine either.