Because they can co-exist.
And if they can't, well, giving them some fake and transitory "independent state" would be prolonging inevitable suffering as well, as opposed to killing them all and getting it over with.
I advocate mass killings, if there is no other resource but i would at least attempt Co-Existence before pulling that trigger.
Yes, but WoT saying that the Dalish turn away from spirit magic as a whole points to a more significant difference in demonology than just a different categorization of the Fade's inhabitants.
The Dalish view of all spirits as dangerous, to the point where they abhor using magic that involves spirits, is drastically different than the Andrastian perception. I also don't see why the Dalish would view the denizens of the Beyond in the same terms as Andrastians. The codex about the Maker's First Children reads, "The Maker's first creations were the spirits, glorious beings that populated the many spires of the Golden City, and the Chant of Light says that they revered the Maker with unquestioning devotion." It further reads, "As the spirits grew in power, however, some of them became contemptuous of the living. These were the spirits that saw the darkest parts of the dreamers. Their lands were places of torment and horror, and they knew that the living were strongly drawn to places that mirrored those dark parts of themselves. These spirits questioned the Maker's wisdom and proclaimed the living inferior. They learned from the darkness they saw and became the first demons."
As I said, cultural and religious differences distinguish the Andrastians and the Dalish in their view of the Fade (the Beyond).
Yes, but the rest of them weren't mages. You know, the people with awesome powers in constant danger of being possessed by a demon and thus in serious need of good preparation against that eventuality. The other mage was Anders and he passed with flying colors (ok, Justice's help is unfair in that comparison).
It's Plot Railroading, nevertheless, with only Anders being spared from the forced stupidity that inflicts everyone else in Hawke's company. Trying to murder Hawke after a few seconds is the issue that every companion is railroaded into, and I don't see why I should blame anyone for it, any more than we should blame Cullen for doing nothing about Anders' plot against the Kirkwall Chantry.
Because they can co-exist.
And if they can't, well, giving them some fake and transitory "independent state" would be prolonging inevitable suffering as well, as opposed to killing them all and getting it over with.
Well, while humanity works on it's issues the elves can at least have a nice place to reside in.
I'm sure Briala would work with Celene for the betterment of her people.
See, that's where I fear Briala might run into some issues. One thing I enjoyed about Weekes' depiction of her was how she struggled to find her identity in the novel, and came to find that she really doesn't belong to either group, the city elves or the Dalish. She spent the majority of her life as handmaid and lover to an Empress of the biggest empire in Thedas next to the Imperium. So in that regard, the city elves may find her...somewhat lacking. Why would they necessarily trust one such as her?
would be prolonging inevitable suffering as well, as opposed to killing them all and getting it over with.
Just say the word I'm sure we can work out a properly Roman resolution to this issue.
The best part is that because of the time period it won't be vilified for centuries!!!
See, that's where I fear Briala might run into some issues. One thing I enjoyed about Weekes' depiction of her was how she struggled to find her identity in the novel, and came to find that she really doesn't belong to either group, the city elves or the Dalish. She spent the majority of her life as handmaid and lover to an Empress of the biggest empire in Thedas next to the Imperium. So in that regard, the city elves may find her...somewhat lacking. Why would they necessarily trust one such as her?
Briala is planning to find people who can help her, and as we've seen with the Kirkwall elves who converted to the Qun, there are those looking for a better lot in life than what fate has handed them. I can see some willing to work with Briala for the promise of a better future for the elves.
I can't believe the mods haven't closed this thread yet.
I can't believe the mods haven't closed this thread yet.
Why should they?
I can't believe the mods haven't closed this thread yet.
Why?
I'm not sure you can call it a successful relationship when it's over, and you yourself suggest it would be extremely unlikely that they will ever get back together, romantically.There have been pros and cons to the relationship. Briala's insights were beneficial to Celene outmaneuvering Gaspard in the confrontation with Tegan, for example. Celene has also used the allure of a possible marriage with her to her advantage, which was brought up early on.
Xil likely has her own reasons to add in the myriad of reasons that she may prefer Celene and Briala. They are two strong, intelligent woman in their own right, and an interracial relationship by human/elven terms. They've helped and hurt each other; there's a lot of interesting story to explore in that respect. I think a successful lesbian relationship may be part of the appeal of Celene and Briala as well, in contrast to what we've seen with the more sadistic lesbian relationships with Leliana and Branka.
Briala is planning to find people who can help her, and as we've seen with the Kirkwall elves who converted to the Qun, there are those looking for a better lot in life than what fate has handed them. I can see some willing to work with Briala for the promise of a better future for the elves.
And Dying for her cause once the Nobility have rallied their forces and return to end what she is attempting?
Or you know, The PC coming in sword swinging to end that madness.
I advocate mass killings, if there is no other resource but i would at least attempt Co-Existence before pulling that trigger.
And this proposed city-state is not an attempt at co-existence, it's just brushing off the problem so that it can be ignored, at least for a while.
Counting on humanity to work out its "issues" is just lazy and ultimately dangerous... and disingenuous in its own right for implying the elves won't have any issues to work on themselves.
I'm not sure you can call it a successful relationship when it's over, and you yourself suggest it would be extremely unlikely that they will ever get back together, romantically.
I was thinking about the possible prospect of Briala and Celene getting back together romantically, as opposed to their current estrangement as a couple.
And this proposed city-state is not an attempt at co-existence, it's just brushing off the problem so that it can be ignored, at least for a while.
Counting on humanity to work out its "issues" is just lazy and ultimately dangerous... and disingenuous in its own right for implying the elves won't have any issues to work on themselves.
Hence why that isn't my proposed solution.
I am still of the mind DA needs a Valley of the Flowers after all.
An Elven State, That is protected and economically stable via a Human Empire.
Has Elven land holders, nobility, merchants and soldiers, but ultimately answers to a Human Nation. It's basically like the Volus Protectorate if you want to go Mass Effect rather then Witcher.
Something that benefits both sides, Orlais gets a bufferzone between it and invasion, a place for it to station troops if the need arises, Perhaps form a circle there. It would ultimately be a dictated State, but it would be a state none the less.
Why should they?
Why?
You guys are way off topic.
And this proposed city-state is not an attempt at co-existence, it's just brushing off the problem so that it can be ignored, at least for a while.
Counting on humanity to work out its "issues" is just lazy and ultimately dangerous... and disingenuous in its own right for implying the elves won't have any issues to work on themselves.
See I don't think city state is brushing off the problem. It literally addresses the biggest issue currently facing the elves. They have no power in their own society. No recourse for crimes against them. There own city state gives them that ability.
Hence why that isn't my proposed solution.
I am still of the mind DA needs a Valley of the Flowers after all.
An Elven State, That is protected and economically stable via a Human Empire.
Has Elven land holders, nobility, merchants and soldiers, but ultimately answers to a Human Nation. It's basically like the Volus Protectorate if you want to go Mass Effect rather then Witcher.
Something that benefits both sides, Orlais gets a bufferzone between it and invasion, a place for it to station troops if the need arises, Perhaps form a circle there. It would ultimately be a dictated State, but it would be a state none the less.
Thats exactly what Baconer has been arguing against sense I proposed it 4 or 5 pages back. The city state would still be part of Orlais and have Orlais' protection, just the CEs would run everything in it.
You guys are way off topic.
Yeah but we are discussing things related to the area. We aren't getting into spirited hate filled discusions along beligerent lines of thought. At least not yet.
See I don't think city state is brushing off the problem. It literally addresses the biggest issue currently facing the elves. They have no power in their own society. No recourse for crimes against them. There own city state gives them that ability.
An independent kingdom could provide that, with elves coming from all across Thedas for an opportunity at a better life (similar to what ensued when the Elven Warden became the Bann of the Denerim Alienage).
An independent kingdom could provide that, with elves coming from all across Thedas for an opportunity at a better life (similar to what ensued when the Elven Warden became the Bann of the Denerim Alienage).
Yes, but having it continue to be part of Orlais gives it protection it wouldn't have otherwise and limits the idea of Orlais conquering it.
I don't necessarily disagree with a completely free CE state as I stated previously, I just don't think it is currently the best route for them to go from a long term survivability view point.
Plus, I see the nobles going for this far more then actually completely giving the land away.
Now, that said, the best solution for Orlais would be Celene's desire to make CEs full citizens of Orlais and make them equal under the law and given equal opportunities. That in truth would be my preferred answer to the elf question in Orlais, but I find it less likely and practical sadly. Her university may get Orlais there eventually, but not yet.
You guys are way off topic.
Not really. We are discussing alternatives to the Orlesian Civil War with the Dales, as the topic is named.
Yes, but having it continue to be part of Orlais gives it protection it wouldn't have otherwise and limits the idea of Orlais conquering it.
I don't necessarily disagree with a completely free CE state as I stated previously, I just don't think it is currently the best route for them to go from a long term survivability view point.
Plus, I see the nobles going for this far more then actually completely giving the land away.
Now, that said, the best solution for Orlais would be Celene's desire to make CEs full citizens of Orlais and make them equal under the law and given equal opportunities. That in truth would be my preferred answer to the elf question in Orlais, but I find it less likely and practical sadly. Her university may get Orlais there eventually, but not yet.
Exactly. It being a protectorate of Orlais will be much easier to achieve than full independence at first since Orlais, the nation that will be giving the land and resources of that land, will still be getting something in return whereas with a fully independent elven state they will not.
On the flip side, it puts all the eggs in one basket, just waiting for someone to come tip it over.An independent kingdom could provide that, with elves coming from all across Thedas for an opportunity at a better life (similar to what ensued when the Elven Warden became the Bann of the Denerim Alienage).
On the flip side, it puts all the eggs in one basket, just waiting for someone to come tip it over.
And no guarantee of effective Chantry 'mercy' this time around.
An alliance with Ferelden and Orlais could prevent that, assuming the Inquisitor would help one of the warring Orlesian factions who would be willing to accept elven rule over the Dales. Celene offered honorary lordship over the Dales, so I don't think it's implausible; perhaps she would offer the same to an elven Inquisitor who could help her against Gaspard.
I personally support co-existance over isolation.
I also disagree with the Dalish being given sovereignty over the Dales.
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