2014 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistic]

One issue I would have concern about regarding this is that in Masked empire, Fellassan says that few Dalish actually live in the Dales.  As we know we won't be venturing out of Ferelden or Orlais, I don't see the Dales being a focus for the dalish.

 

Well, wasn't hinted in some DA2 DLC that there would be an Arlathvhen in Halamshiral? The large gathering of clans would skyrocket the Dalish presence in the Dales. Since the Elf Inquisitor can only be Dalish (still feel bad for the CE), there has to be something.

[Hellion Rex]

Felassan also makes it quite clear that the Dalish themselves don't agree with the way we have interpreted the meaning of WoT and Merril on demons and spirits. So either we misinterpreted, or it has been retconned.  Because while Fel says you could call it stupid, he makes it very clear there is nothing wrong with the Dalish dealing with spirits.

Indeed. Especially given the Dalish use of sylvans.

[LobselVith8]

One issue I would have concern about regarding this is that in Masked empire, Fellassan says that few Dalish actually live in the Dales.  As we know we won't be venturing out of Ferelden or Orlais, I don't see the Dales being a focus for the dalish.

 

Briala is going for the "Elves of Orlais", she says she will take help from the Dalish but they will have to come asking, she won't seek them out.

 

The Dalish may be gathering in the occupied kingdom of the Dales (with the artwork showing a Dalish clan in what appears to be the Emerald Plains), while Briala wants to help the elves with the Eluvians. The Dales is also noted as a separate location from Orlais when it's been discussed, rather than part of it.

 

Felassan also makes it quite clear that the Dalish themselves don't agree with the way we have interpreted the meaning of WoT and Merril on demons and spirits. So either we misinterpreted, or it has been retconned.  Because while Fel says you could call it stupid, he makes it very clear there is nothing wrong with the Dalish dealing with spirits.

 

It would have to be retroactive continuity if we're going to dismiss multiple conversations and dialogue from Merrill in addition to the World of Thedas about their view on spirits, perhaps because of the alleged powers of the Inquisitor in summoning creatures from the veil. Or perhaps because of the situation with the voiced protagonist. Either way, I'm really not a fan of diluting the uniqueness of the Dalish cultural and religious perspective to make it no different than the cultural and religious views held by Andrastians. I don't see the appeal in playing as a re-skinned Andrastian.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, wasn't hinted in some DA2 DLC that there would be an Arlathvhen in Halamshiral? The large gathering of clans would skyrocket the Dalish presence in the Dales. Since the Elf Inquisitor can only be Dalish (still feel bad for the CE), there has to be something.

 

Mark of the Assassin, and it was a brief one mention comment.

[Xilizhra]

Or Gaider mistyped once again.

 

It happens a lot.

Gaider didn't write The Masked Empire.

 

It wouldn't be the first time the elves were mandatory antagonists; see the converts in DA2.

They were viddathari and affiliated with the qunari; they had nothing to do with any sort of elven agenda.

 

The presence of a third option that empowers elves wouldn have no effect in those who don't appreciate them.

The absence of it, on the other hand, would upset the pro-elves. Hence the words you just threw back at me.

Ah, but what if empowering the elves happened to be mandatory?

[Hellion Rex]

I always thought it meant more that Dalish are extremely wary of using spirit magic, not that they never do it at all.

[Master Warder Z_]

Gaider didn't write The Masked Empire.

 

I bet you twenty euro's that he and his staff wrote the storyboards for it.

[The Hierophant]

Lob you're looking at the hypothetical situation in black and white. If Briala seeks to prolong the Civil War while the Inquisitor might need to end it quickly in order to gather an allied force to combat the potential army of demons, then that means there might be a problem as the two goals oppose each other. Briala seekihg to uplift the elves won't matter to a player who's more interested in potentially gaining Gaspard's or Celene's forces with the least amount of resources expended.

[Mistic]

Mark of the Assassin, and it was a brief one mention comment.

 

Thank you! Although it may be brief, it's the best thing we have so far. And since the game is going to be set only in Orlais in Ferelden, it sounds plausible.

[Hellion Rex]

I bet you twenty euro's that he and his staff wrote the storyboards for it.

Does it even really matter?

[LobselVith8]

And antagonist is someone the player must stop for one reason or another. It does not mean they are villains and you did claim that I perceived her as villain.

If Bioware forces you to fight her, then you won't have much choice beyond seeing her as an antagonist, even if not a villain.

 

The Loghain debates suggest otherwise.

 

It wouldn't be the first time the elves were mandatory antagonists; see the converts in DA2.

 

We have been given options in the past to side with multiple factions: see the schism between mages and templars.

 

The presence of a third option that empowers elves wouldn have no effect in those who don't appreciate them.

The absence of it, on the other hand, would upset the pro-elves. Hence the words you just threw back at me.

 

I see plenty of people offended at the prospect of helping the elves in this thread alone, as a matter of fact.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Loghain debates suggest otherwise.

 

In regard that if he was or was not a villain or no, There is no debate about him not being an antagonist however.

 

He is.

[Mistic]

Lob you're looking at the hypothetical situation in black and white. If Briala seeks to prolong the Civil War while the Inquisitor might need to end it quickly in order to gather an allied force to combat the potential army of demons, then that means there might be a problem as the two goals oppose each other. Briala seekihg to uplift the elves won't matter to a player who's more interested in potentially gaining Gaspard's or Celene's forces with the least amount of resources expended.

 

That is true. After all, I'm sure that the Inquisition will have to remind everyone that the world is going to end, so it's not time to be suicidal. The same happened in DA:O. As much as our decisions could affect others, the Warden never imposed a revolutionary agenda and the best thing he or she could get was a boon... that in most cases didn't change things a bit.

[wcholcombe]

The Dalish may be gathering in the occupied kingdom of the Dales (with the artwork showing a Dalish clan in what appears to be the Emerald Plains), while Briala wants to help the elves with the Eluvians. The Dales is also noted as a separate location from Orlais when it's been discussed, rather than part of it.

 

 

It would have to be retroactive continuity if we're going to dismiss multiple conversations and dialogue from Merrill in addition to the World of Thedas about their view on spirits, perhaps because of the alleged powers of the Inquisitor in summoning creatures from the veil. Or perhaps because of the situation with the voiced protagonist. Either way, I'm really not a fan of diluting the uniqueness of the Dalish cultural and religious perspective to make it no different than the cultural and religious views held by Andrastians. I don't see the appeal in playing as a re-skinned Andrastian.

Yeah I had already considered the Arlathyhven as mentioned above.

 

I don't think it makes it a reskinned andrastian. Andrastians view for the most part all fade spirits as evil. Just ask Lambert he will tell you so.  It would be close to the Tevinter view, but they still considered spirits to be good.  The Dalish consider them both to be like wild animals.  That is different, and still fits with Merril saying they view them as dangerous.  That is why I think we may have misinterpretted Merril's convo.  I don't really know on WoT.

 

Oh yeah, and the artwork you reference is from WoT. It isn't developement artwork for DAI.

[AresKeith]

Does it even really matter?

 

It's super cereal

[Master Warder Z_]

the Warden never imposed a revolutionary agenda and the best thing he or she could get was a boon... that in most cases didn't change things a bit.

 

That's the reality of the narrative i am afraid.

[LobselVith8]

No idea on WoT, just going with the latest info we have and allowing for either the possibility of a retcon, or us misinterpreting the info we have.

 

I don't see how it's a misinterpretation. Merrill says that all spirits are dangerous, and WoT reads the same, to the extent that the Dalish avoid schools of magic that involve spirits: "Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." (page 104)

 

Also if there is one of those big clan gatherings of the Dalish, I would imagine that would be the big Dalish plot.

 

Seriously if we actually have an Arlathyven or however you spell it, it dang sure better get a bigger plot point and more developement then a freaking yearly landsmeet in ferelden.

 

So yes, if we have it, I can see that being the big Dalish event for DAI.

 

Arlathvhen. It might also be colored by the presence of an elven Inquisitor, with the clans expecting different things from one of their own who is gaining political and military power in Thedas.

[Xilizhra]

Lob you're looking at the hypothetical situation in black and white. If Briala seeks to prolong the Civil War while the Inquisitor might need to end it quickly in order to gather an allied force to combat the potential army of demons, then that means there might be a problem as the two goals oppose each other. Briala seekihg to uplift the elves won't matter to a player who's more interested in potentially gaining Gaspard's or Celene's forces with the least amount of resources expended.

I'm perfectly willing to expend resources to get Celene on board with helping Briala, and don't see why that option should be automatically closed to me in this situation.

[Hellion Rex]

It's super cereal

Well, well, well....is that the Thor or the Iron Man?

[Master Warder Z_]

Arlathvhen. It might also be colored by the presence of an elven Inquisitor, with the clans expecting different things from one of their own who is gaining political and military power in Thedas.

 

The Beggars, Thieves, Vagabonds, Murderers and scum want a handout.

 

Big surprise.

[wcholcombe]

I don't see how it's a misinterpretation. Merrill says that all spirits are dangerous, and WoT reads the same, to the extent that the Dalish avoid schools of magic that involve spirits: "Unlike other spellcasters, Dalish mages do not use any magic involving spirits, as they believe all spirits are dangerous." (page 104)

 

 

Arlathvhen. It might also be colored by the presence of an elven Inquisitor, with the clans expecting different things from one of their own who is gaining political and military power in Thedas.

On the subject of the Arlathvhen, how will they incorporate it for non dalish inquisitors intrigues and concerns me.  There isn't anyway that it is just a total non entity for the other races....

 

And would you not feel cheated if the Arlathvhen- a meeting that takes place only once every 10 years is just relegated to a minor vote mechanic alla the landsmeet?

[Xilizhra]

On the subject of the Arlathvhen, how will they incorporate it for non dalish inquisitors intrigues and concerns me.  There isn't anyway that it is just a total non entity for the other races....

The Inquisitor will be let in due to being super-important and presumably having some way to help them with their own issues.

[AresKeith]

Well, well, well....is that the Thor or the Iron Man?

 

   

 

If you don't know then you should feel bad 

[MisterJB]

I see plenty of people offended at the prospect of helping the elves in this thread alone, as a matter of fact.

I find that very hard to believe. I have seen some people opposing some suggestions on how to help elves in the past; such as forcibly relocation every human out of the Dales; but there is a difference between oposing such draconian methods and opposing helping the elves altogether.

 

[Hellion Rex]

   

 

If you don't know then you should feel bad 

Well IM kinda sucks, so...